The conservatives are 6 points behind with 2 years until the next GE. That’s nothing.
* If they dumped Johnson for someone more traditionally Tory
* If they avoided further unforced errors like Partygate
* If the tabloids continue a death-of-a-thousand-cuts on Labour on gender/race
* If things get worse with inflation but then start to get better in 2 years
* If they can budget in a tax cut just before the election
Then they’d easily be able to close the polling gap. And that’s without any new policies.
(Note: I’m politically anti-Tory, and really don’t want them to. I’m just realistic)
Realistically the tories can do anything with the backing of half the public that vote for them as if they were a football team.
Should have stuck with Theresa May. I’m not her biggest fan but she would have taken the covid crisis much more seriously.
Some Tory quotes from the article:
* Anon Minister: “We’re going to lose and we deserve it. We’re on our way out”
* Anon MP: “appallingly bad”
* Anon MP: “we have no narrative”
* Tory Peer Robert Hayward: “a sense within the party at large – not just the parliamentary party – of malaise and drift”
* Anon frontbencher: “I fear a slow and painful death of this government. He’s caused so many problems, we can’t even talk about the real issues of the day to begin to tackle them.”
* Other anon frontbencher: “By far the biggest issue is the sense that the government is now tiring and disjointed”
* Anon MP: “No 10 is utterly delusional if they think this has gone away. It just hasn’t”
* Anon MP who is ‘no enemy of Johnson’: “I think he’s in more danger now than he was on Wednesday.”
Perhaps the most telling, on the record, “the government anti-corruption tsar” (the Guardian call him, straight faced) John Penrose, asked if Johnson should go:
> “Forgive me, I’m still thinking about that, so I’m going to sleep on that. But it’s because it [the Gray report] hasn’t put the issue to bed one way or another.
> “It could be months, and … one of the reasons I’m sounding so angry and frustrated is that I was expecting us to be able to have a crystallised answer now, and we haven’t flipping got it.”
He’s claiming because the Gray report didn’t explicitly lay into Johnson enough, because it didn’t force their hand, Tories like him are unable to take any action and have to wait on yet another report – after a police fine, the Gray report, and the evidence of his own senses – before they can take any moral leadership and lance the Boris boil.
Labour is right, the best thing for the opposition is keeping Johnson. All the Tories need to do is get a new face (like Tugendhat), condemn the rule breaking, promise change and they’ll be laughing.
Tory voters don’t care if they’re being lied to, they just want a convincing lie that they can use for justification. Johnson’s government is struggling to provide that which is why Tory voters have gone all quiet.
Right now innthis time if blatant power grabbing madness, I half expect the Tory Party to infinity delay the general election.
Loads of Tory voters I know are pissed – some of them voted liberal democrat at the last election as Kier Starmer is almost as toxic as Boris is to them.
Get someone new in labour who has some middle ground and clear policies and they can walk the next election.
Surely I can’t be the only one who can see this.
No, they deserve a lot worse.
This just seems like perfect timing. Create a total clusterfuck across pretty much every sphere of governance then leave it for someone else to fix.
At this point Johnson will likely just change the regulations on GEs so he stays in forever. What’s to stop him? He already dumped the rule that said he should be sacked for his behaviour.
The tories will win the next election. Outside reddit youll find a million boris apologists and even more tory apologists.
“They are doing the best they can”
If your mental health is reliant upon a labour or whatver win then you need to reassess.
As a party the Tories categorically do not deserve their offices. Many of them have clearly acted in ways that are far and away beneath the dignity of public office, especially the ministers and other more senior lot.
And then there are the bulk who just stand by like the supine gutless lackeys they are, letting these cruel privileged clowns drive this country into the dirt. We mustn’t forget to mention the apologists, enablers, and those who bend over backwards to try and tell you grass isn’t green.
Oh, and then the whole division (it seems) of those who are sex offenders in some form or another.
Sadly I can’t see a tory loss happening. All the current scandals and controversies can easily laid at Boris. This means they could easily replace him and guarantee enough majority in an election. If the left continues to split the vote and vote out of purity its all but ensured for the tories.
Even worse the replacement for Boris is likely to be even worse. If you think Boris is bad, wait until we have Liz Truss in charge, you’ll be begging for Boris back.
I think the Tories are in trouble, with the blue wall. The blue wall, the traditional conservatives is much more important than the red wall.
The current Tories are not really living by Tory values and the blue wall constituencies are looking to the Lib Dems
British public: ‘not if we can help it’
Without Boris or Brexit, the tories are fucked. Their lunge to the far right will continue and within 20 years they’ll be as relevant and powerful in British politics as the BNP are today.
If you’re all so ashamed of yourselves then resign. You know you’ve done wrong and been lead by someone who has also done wrong. Just leave and let the other parties form a coalition in the meantime..we can’t take ot anymore it like watching a group of spoiled children squabble at this point. I would love to see the countroes woes eased but I would love to stop reading about how degrading to the term human being you all are all the time. Please, please just go.
Johnson is destroying the Tory party. At this point, I just want him to stay in power for that very purpose.
They want to lose.
No way for them to sort out this mess. But more importantly no political capital in doing so either.
On the flip side if they wait, leave an absolute state of a mess left for whoever comes next, oh look they have a ready-made platform. Whoever comes next will need widespread restructuring of public bodies and probably large-scale borrowing, both of which Tories have ready-made campaigns with those exact points as the issues they want to resolve. I.e. in sorting out the Tory mess whoever comes next I think will directly feed into the Tory propaganda machine that everyone else is wasteful and incompetent (just look at all that borrowing!).
All talk no actual action
You do deserve to lose.
They deserve to be banned as a party for what they have done.
The trouble is that with up to another 2 years until the next GE, there is a horrendous amount of damage they will do first.
I hope these headlines would stop.
People didn’t go out and vote against Brexit and Trump because the news was telling them there would be a landslide win against the insanity. Less people were inclined to go out and vote because of it.
Wether we like it or not the main three party’s are ALL the same IF change is needed the idea of socialism really needs to be given a chance , how much longer can we continue with boom and bust policies , we desperately need houses built , we need the health system out of private hands , we need all utilities returned to public ownership , in dire need of the brexit mess being sorted , all these are just somethings that NONE of the main party’s desire , I’m not a lefty or liberalist but what I am is a human being and I truly believe with the right system in place including allowing a fair tax system in place people should be allowed to earn as much as they like but equally pay their way Britain should be leading the way in the world it has so much to offer , sounds ridiculous?? It’s not you know they just don’t want you to know another way is possible, their greed knows no bounds .
Losing is the least they deserve. I can think of many things worse than losing, that they all deserve to suffer from.
Two years is a long time in politics, replace Johnson and all will be forgotten by the public, it also doesn’t help that there isn’t a real opposition, Starmer isn’t exactly setting the world alight, Corbyn was more popular with Labour voters and he lost two elections like him or hate him.
Add that to the fact that the right alternatives (Reform formerly Brexit Party) haven’t exactly been a thorn in the Tories side unlike in the late 2010s when Brexit was the issue and in the final European elections they stole seats from the Tories.
I’m no Tory, politically I’m homeless, I’m turned off by all the parties because they’ve descended into American style culture wars which don’t solve issues that are pressing us.
But I’m being realistic in that I believe that the Tories will win 2024 the only thing stopping them is keeping Johnson so let’s hope he stays and loses
Grauniad wishful thinking in my opinion.
Never underestimate both the masochism and stupidity of the British public.
The Tories are no way near as scary as having to live with people that vote Tory. I’ll take the Tories any time.
I wont be voting for any of them, both main parties are very close politically and dont represent my views.
More like: “If we’re going to lose, we’d better make sure we deserve it”
Even if you support the Tories they have been in power too long. Government is at its best with a bit of competition. Same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.
All tactics learned from their mates across the pond in the Republican party.
It’s almost like spending years lying to the public, fucking the economy, giving cash to your rich mates, and then ignoring the public when they actually need some help… isn’t popular
Who could have predicted that?
I think 2024 will see them scrape through
More every day.
Tory HQ: “How can we be losing? I know we’ve made 200+ fuckups, but we brought up ‘LGBT people bad’ so many times, that usually works!”
The tories will win. The Daily Mail, Sun, Telegraph and Express will make sure of it.
38 comments
The conservatives are 6 points behind with 2 years until the next GE. That’s nothing.
* If they dumped Johnson for someone more traditionally Tory
* If they avoided further unforced errors like Partygate
* If the tabloids continue a death-of-a-thousand-cuts on Labour on gender/race
* If things get worse with inflation but then start to get better in 2 years
* If they can budget in a tax cut just before the election
Then they’d easily be able to close the polling gap. And that’s without any new policies.
(Note: I’m politically anti-Tory, and really don’t want them to. I’m just realistic)
Realistically the tories can do anything with the backing of half the public that vote for them as if they were a football team.
Should have stuck with Theresa May. I’m not her biggest fan but she would have taken the covid crisis much more seriously.
Some Tory quotes from the article:
* Anon Minister: “We’re going to lose and we deserve it. We’re on our way out”
* Anon MP: “appallingly bad”
* Anon MP: “we have no narrative”
* Tory Peer Robert Hayward: “a sense within the party at large – not just the parliamentary party – of malaise and drift”
* Anon frontbencher: “I fear a slow and painful death of this government. He’s caused so many problems, we can’t even talk about the real issues of the day to begin to tackle them.”
* Other anon frontbencher: “By far the biggest issue is the sense that the government is now tiring and disjointed”
* Anon MP: “No 10 is utterly delusional if they think this has gone away. It just hasn’t”
* Anon MP who is ‘no enemy of Johnson’: “I think he’s in more danger now than he was on Wednesday.”
Perhaps the most telling, on the record, “the government anti-corruption tsar” (the Guardian call him, straight faced) John Penrose, asked if Johnson should go:
> “Forgive me, I’m still thinking about that, so I’m going to sleep on that. But it’s because it [the Gray report] hasn’t put the issue to bed one way or another.
> “It could be months, and … one of the reasons I’m sounding so angry and frustrated is that I was expecting us to be able to have a crystallised answer now, and we haven’t flipping got it.”
He’s claiming because the Gray report didn’t explicitly lay into Johnson enough, because it didn’t force their hand, Tories like him are unable to take any action and have to wait on yet another report – after a police fine, the Gray report, and the evidence of his own senses – before they can take any moral leadership and lance the Boris boil.
Labour is right, the best thing for the opposition is keeping Johnson. All the Tories need to do is get a new face (like Tugendhat), condemn the rule breaking, promise change and they’ll be laughing.
Tory voters don’t care if they’re being lied to, they just want a convincing lie that they can use for justification. Johnson’s government is struggling to provide that which is why Tory voters have gone all quiet.
Right now innthis time if blatant power grabbing madness, I half expect the Tory Party to infinity delay the general election.
Loads of Tory voters I know are pissed – some of them voted liberal democrat at the last election as Kier Starmer is almost as toxic as Boris is to them.
Get someone new in labour who has some middle ground and clear policies and they can walk the next election.
Surely I can’t be the only one who can see this.
No, they deserve a lot worse.
This just seems like perfect timing. Create a total clusterfuck across pretty much every sphere of governance then leave it for someone else to fix.
At this point Johnson will likely just change the regulations on GEs so he stays in forever. What’s to stop him? He already dumped the rule that said he should be sacked for his behaviour.
The tories will win the next election. Outside reddit youll find a million boris apologists and even more tory apologists.
“They are doing the best they can”
If your mental health is reliant upon a labour or whatver win then you need to reassess.
As a party the Tories categorically do not deserve their offices. Many of them have clearly acted in ways that are far and away beneath the dignity of public office, especially the ministers and other more senior lot.
And then there are the bulk who just stand by like the supine gutless lackeys they are, letting these cruel privileged clowns drive this country into the dirt. We mustn’t forget to mention the apologists, enablers, and those who bend over backwards to try and tell you grass isn’t green.
Oh, and then the whole division (it seems) of those who are sex offenders in some form or another.
Sadly I can’t see a tory loss happening. All the current scandals and controversies can easily laid at Boris. This means they could easily replace him and guarantee enough majority in an election. If the left continues to split the vote and vote out of purity its all but ensured for the tories.
Even worse the replacement for Boris is likely to be even worse. If you think Boris is bad, wait until we have Liz Truss in charge, you’ll be begging for Boris back.
I think the Tories are in trouble, with the blue wall. The blue wall, the traditional conservatives is much more important than the red wall.
The current Tories are not really living by Tory values and the blue wall constituencies are looking to the Lib Dems
British public: ‘not if we can help it’
Without Boris or Brexit, the tories are fucked. Their lunge to the far right will continue and within 20 years they’ll be as relevant and powerful in British politics as the BNP are today.
If you’re all so ashamed of yourselves then resign. You know you’ve done wrong and been lead by someone who has also done wrong. Just leave and let the other parties form a coalition in the meantime..we can’t take ot anymore it like watching a group of spoiled children squabble at this point. I would love to see the countroes woes eased but I would love to stop reading about how degrading to the term human being you all are all the time. Please, please just go.
Johnson is destroying the Tory party. At this point, I just want him to stay in power for that very purpose.
They want to lose.
No way for them to sort out this mess. But more importantly no political capital in doing so either.
On the flip side if they wait, leave an absolute state of a mess left for whoever comes next, oh look they have a ready-made platform. Whoever comes next will need widespread restructuring of public bodies and probably large-scale borrowing, both of which Tories have ready-made campaigns with those exact points as the issues they want to resolve. I.e. in sorting out the Tory mess whoever comes next I think will directly feed into the Tory propaganda machine that everyone else is wasteful and incompetent (just look at all that borrowing!).
All talk no actual action
You do deserve to lose.
They deserve to be banned as a party for what they have done.
The trouble is that with up to another 2 years until the next GE, there is a horrendous amount of damage they will do first.
I hope these headlines would stop.
People didn’t go out and vote against Brexit and Trump because the news was telling them there would be a landslide win against the insanity. Less people were inclined to go out and vote because of it.
Wether we like it or not the main three party’s are ALL the same IF change is needed the idea of socialism really needs to be given a chance , how much longer can we continue with boom and bust policies , we desperately need houses built , we need the health system out of private hands , we need all utilities returned to public ownership , in dire need of the brexit mess being sorted , all these are just somethings that NONE of the main party’s desire , I’m not a lefty or liberalist but what I am is a human being and I truly believe with the right system in place including allowing a fair tax system in place people should be allowed to earn as much as they like but equally pay their way Britain should be leading the way in the world it has so much to offer , sounds ridiculous?? It’s not you know they just don’t want you to know another way is possible, their greed knows no bounds .
Losing is the least they deserve. I can think of many things worse than losing, that they all deserve to suffer from.
Two years is a long time in politics, replace Johnson and all will be forgotten by the public, it also doesn’t help that there isn’t a real opposition, Starmer isn’t exactly setting the world alight, Corbyn was more popular with Labour voters and he lost two elections like him or hate him.
Add that to the fact that the right alternatives (Reform formerly Brexit Party) haven’t exactly been a thorn in the Tories side unlike in the late 2010s when Brexit was the issue and in the final European elections they stole seats from the Tories.
I’m no Tory, politically I’m homeless, I’m turned off by all the parties because they’ve descended into American style culture wars which don’t solve issues that are pressing us.
But I’m being realistic in that I believe that the Tories will win 2024 the only thing stopping them is keeping Johnson so let’s hope he stays and loses
Grauniad wishful thinking in my opinion.
Never underestimate both the masochism and stupidity of the British public.
The Tories are no way near as scary as having to live with people that vote Tory. I’ll take the Tories any time.
I wont be voting for any of them, both main parties are very close politically and dont represent my views.
More like: “If we’re going to lose, we’d better make sure we deserve it”
Even if you support the Tories they have been in power too long. Government is at its best with a bit of competition. Same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.
All tactics learned from their mates across the pond in the Republican party.
It’s almost like spending years lying to the public, fucking the economy, giving cash to your rich mates, and then ignoring the public when they actually need some help… isn’t popular
Who could have predicted that?
I think 2024 will see them scrape through
More every day.
Tory HQ: “How can we be losing? I know we’ve made 200+ fuckups, but we brought up ‘LGBT people bad’ so many times, that usually works!”
The tories will win. The Daily Mail, Sun, Telegraph and Express will make sure of it.