And crèche operators are closing down because somehow in Ireland you need to turn millions just to pay insurance on premises, fckn unique times we live in, like you see people online saying if someone organized outdoors hike or some shit for group make sure you get insurance because you can be sued.
Like some sort of egg shell society, while workers hired to care for dozen toddlers at 13e ph.
And for parents to have a kid looked after and socialized is cheaper to buy a house, then raise a kid.
As would be actually interesting to see how much does it cost to raise kid nowadays up until their ten or say 18, as amount prob be easily 300k.
Everyone loves complaining about the cost of childcare, but very few people seem to ask why.
In short, we in Ireland are a victim of our own high requirement setting as far as childcare goes. That is why the cost is so high.
Couple of quick clarifications.
– Insurance and premises is NOT even close the primary or highest expense with childcare.
– Staff is approx 70% of all expenses. [Here’s a nice graph that was linked to me.] (https://imgur.com/9fsVBIt)
– Most childcare services break even without large profit generation.
So, why is staff cost so high?
Because we in Ireland have crazy high standards of minimum required ratios of carers per child. Also there is a base line qualification requirement for the carers.
If it is a legal requirement for there to be one carer for every three children? Then the cost of that child to be in care is going to be approx. 1/3rd the salary of a fulltime qualified childcare professional.
These are full time employees often with specific degrees involving years of study, medical training, educational training, Garda vetting, etc.
It’s not meant to be minimum wage position.
If you have multiple children in care? Well then the cost of that is going to approach the cost of a fulltime employee at that trained position.
Directly compare this to Spain for example where childare is considered affordable,
Spanish regulations specify a ratio of 1:8 for babies less than a year old, rising to 1:20 for two- to three-year-olds.
In Ireland we specifically regulated super high standards & requirements, then everyone slaps on the shocked pikachu face when it turns out to be expensive.
Only options to make it cheaper are to relax the requirements in Ireland, or involve the government even more heavily than they are and ask for additional billions from the exchequer that by design will be funneled straight into private companies to allow them to make a profit.
Who has 3 kids of creche going age without thinking of the costs involved?
It’s not like costs have doubled overnight. When you sent the first one to creche, did you not think what it would cost when you had a second or third kid?
About 15 years ago we looked into running a dedicated creche near Newbridge. The previous provider had pulled out 2 years prior. Factored in rent, all costs, insurance, proofing etc. and could see straight away we’d never turn a penny, unless you’re a 100+ creche is was completely unviable.
Wife took in 4 kids, primary age, cash in hand, parents delighted. Not forced to keep them home with a runny nose, not forced to pay during holidays, suited everyone.
This is actually terrifying. I hope the government go down and never get voted again for the shit they constantly put people through.
The obvious answer is for the government to employ the model used for private schools.
Set a salary scale and pay the childcare workers based on the numbers enrolled in each facility. Creche fees then cover the extras – food, premises, insurance, management.
We live in Australia and my partner works in childcare, I think the ratios are 1:4 for babies, 1:5 for 2-3 year Olds and 1:11 for 4-5 year Olds. From listening to her experiences over the years I don’t think it’s possible to give proper early childhood education to kids without these ratios. She’s worked in places that want to make a profit and don’t properly adhere to the ratios, this ends up in the children running wild and all she can do is damage control.
Early childhood education is very important for a child’s development. Where she works now they always adhere to the the ratios and they have a curriculum that’s thought through play. The children decide what they want to learn and if they don’t want to take part they can just play. It’s very interesting how they’ve set it up.
The government subsidies cover about 50% of the cost in most cases. I don’t think it would be affordable without the government subsidies though
It’s funny, I don’t know how they can justify these outrages costs.. most of the staff have the most basic of training, the rest are there o CE schemes.
I’ve seen some very VERY dodgey Child care over the last 20 years. Places I wouldn’t send a dog. Usually the private creches and after schools.
I once worked in a place that charged parents over ten euro am hour but paid all staff bar me (graduate) 9.50.
They only needed one qualified adult per class. Multiply that by thirty kids.
My boss was a lovely woman, but she said it herself … When she had her own baby and realised that she could build an extension on her house and use it to set up child care facility that she’s be “sorted”.
It’s a sector that is desperately needed for people to work a d live these days and because of that standards are quite low, most parents are settling for their child to be supervised and fed. It’s wrong.
I’ve often brought my own kids toys, crayons paint etc to work, three tins of aldi beaans and five slices of toast split amongst the kids with none getting more than two tablespoons. … These people have no soul. My boss once said… There will always be.people being born and there will always be people dying. That’s where the money is.
After school for an 11 year old and a 6 year old was 1600pm for us pre covid.
The lock downs put the financial strain we were under into perspective. Suddenly with no creche fees we were flush for the first time in 10 years.
Wfh between me and the missus has solved that financial conundrum for us.
To those who say don’t have kids if you can’t afford them… kids should not be only for the rich. I never looked for “free” creche. But would have loved state recognition such as tax credits.
Always remember that the kids of today are the tax payers of tomorrow who will be paying for my and your state pensions.
Childcare in Sweden is free. I’d heard from a swede that Parents have to help out one day every few weeks, which helps with staffing a bit, but also gives people perspective for the workers, as well as oversight. I tried looking up ratios and it seems for preschool the ratio is 1 to 14, which may be why it is affordable enough to make it free. Either way childcare is a poverty trap in Ireland and making it fully state subsidised would help a lot of low income families.
I’m paying €1400 a month for after school for two kids .
Was €2,100 a month for a full time minder before that.
12 comments
Thats crazy money, why is it so high?
And crèche operators are closing down because somehow in Ireland you need to turn millions just to pay insurance on premises, fckn unique times we live in, like you see people online saying if someone organized outdoors hike or some shit for group make sure you get insurance because you can be sued.
Like some sort of egg shell society, while workers hired to care for dozen toddlers at 13e ph.
And for parents to have a kid looked after and socialized is cheaper to buy a house, then raise a kid.
As would be actually interesting to see how much does it cost to raise kid nowadays up until their ten or say 18, as amount prob be easily 300k.
Everyone loves complaining about the cost of childcare, but very few people seem to ask why.
In short, we in Ireland are a victim of our own high requirement setting as far as childcare goes. That is why the cost is so high.
Couple of quick clarifications.
– Insurance and premises is NOT even close the primary or highest expense with childcare.
– Staff is approx 70% of all expenses. [Here’s a nice graph that was linked to me.] (https://imgur.com/9fsVBIt)
– Most childcare services break even without large profit generation.
So, why is staff cost so high?
Because we in Ireland have crazy high standards of minimum required ratios of carers per child. Also there is a base line qualification requirement for the carers.
[Here is the breakdown of the absolute minimum staffing requirements](https://www.earlychildhoodireland.ie/are-you-maintaining-correct-ratios-in-your-service/)
From that point on, it’s simple math.
If it is a legal requirement for there to be one carer for every three children? Then the cost of that child to be in care is going to be approx. 1/3rd the salary of a fulltime qualified childcare professional.
These are full time employees often with specific degrees involving years of study, medical training, educational training, Garda vetting, etc.
It’s not meant to be minimum wage position.
If you have multiple children in care? Well then the cost of that is going to approach the cost of a fulltime employee at that trained position.
Directly compare this to Spain for example where childare is considered affordable,
Spanish regulations specify a ratio of 1:8 for babies less than a year old, rising to 1:20 for two- to three-year-olds.
In Ireland we specifically regulated super high standards & requirements, then everyone slaps on the shocked pikachu face when it turns out to be expensive.
Only options to make it cheaper are to relax the requirements in Ireland, or involve the government even more heavily than they are and ask for additional billions from the exchequer that by design will be funneled straight into private companies to allow them to make a profit.
Who has 3 kids of creche going age without thinking of the costs involved?
It’s not like costs have doubled overnight. When you sent the first one to creche, did you not think what it would cost when you had a second or third kid?
About 15 years ago we looked into running a dedicated creche near Newbridge. The previous provider had pulled out 2 years prior. Factored in rent, all costs, insurance, proofing etc. and could see straight away we’d never turn a penny, unless you’re a 100+ creche is was completely unviable.
Wife took in 4 kids, primary age, cash in hand, parents delighted. Not forced to keep them home with a runny nose, not forced to pay during holidays, suited everyone.
This is actually terrifying. I hope the government go down and never get voted again for the shit they constantly put people through.
The obvious answer is for the government to employ the model used for private schools.
Set a salary scale and pay the childcare workers based on the numbers enrolled in each facility. Creche fees then cover the extras – food, premises, insurance, management.
We live in Australia and my partner works in childcare, I think the ratios are 1:4 for babies, 1:5 for 2-3 year Olds and 1:11 for 4-5 year Olds. From listening to her experiences over the years I don’t think it’s possible to give proper early childhood education to kids without these ratios. She’s worked in places that want to make a profit and don’t properly adhere to the ratios, this ends up in the children running wild and all she can do is damage control.
Early childhood education is very important for a child’s development. Where she works now they always adhere to the the ratios and they have a curriculum that’s thought through play. The children decide what they want to learn and if they don’t want to take part they can just play. It’s very interesting how they’ve set it up.
The government subsidies cover about 50% of the cost in most cases. I don’t think it would be affordable without the government subsidies though
It’s funny, I don’t know how they can justify these outrages costs.. most of the staff have the most basic of training, the rest are there o CE schemes.
I’ve seen some very VERY dodgey Child care over the last 20 years. Places I wouldn’t send a dog. Usually the private creches and after schools.
I once worked in a place that charged parents over ten euro am hour but paid all staff bar me (graduate) 9.50.
They only needed one qualified adult per class. Multiply that by thirty kids.
My boss was a lovely woman, but she said it herself … When she had her own baby and realised that she could build an extension on her house and use it to set up child care facility that she’s be “sorted”.
It’s a sector that is desperately needed for people to work a d live these days and because of that standards are quite low, most parents are settling for their child to be supervised and fed. It’s wrong.
I’ve often brought my own kids toys, crayons paint etc to work, three tins of aldi beaans and five slices of toast split amongst the kids with none getting more than two tablespoons. … These people have no soul. My boss once said… There will always be.people being born and there will always be people dying. That’s where the money is.
After school for an 11 year old and a 6 year old was 1600pm for us pre covid.
The lock downs put the financial strain we were under into perspective. Suddenly with no creche fees we were flush for the first time in 10 years.
Wfh between me and the missus has solved that financial conundrum for us.
To those who say don’t have kids if you can’t afford them… kids should not be only for the rich. I never looked for “free” creche. But would have loved state recognition such as tax credits.
Always remember that the kids of today are the tax payers of tomorrow who will be paying for my and your state pensions.
Childcare in Sweden is free. I’d heard from a swede that Parents have to help out one day every few weeks, which helps with staffing a bit, but also gives people perspective for the workers, as well as oversight. I tried looking up ratios and it seems for preschool the ratio is 1 to 14, which may be why it is affordable enough to make it free. Either way childcare is a poverty trap in Ireland and making it fully state subsidised would help a lot of low income families.
I’m paying €1400 a month for after school for two kids .
Was €2,100 a month for a full time minder before that.
Don’t see what other choice we have.