Starmer is a plant, and Labour won’t be taken seriously until they remove him.
What exactly does a “better deal” entail, Kier? I find it hard to believe Labour can reach a consensus on anything, let alone make an actual plan.
Let me appeal to the 17m by insulting and ignoring the 16m.
Typical Keith.
No deal will get us back to the privelidged status and perks we had as a member.
Just be honest and admit it was a mistake to leave without knowing what leave meant.
Gonna be fun for the UK electorate choosing between deep navy blue and a more moderate shade of royal blue next election. /s
Seriously though people are screaming for genuine change and if the left (not to mention 2016s 48%, based on this…) give the greens a 10-15 percent vote share the lib dems 15 percent makes moderate tories shrug and just stay with the tories and this splits the vote in 2024 and gives the Tories a free win then Labour only have themselves to blame at this point.
Its not 1997 anymore.
The ‘better deal’ is available, with freer trade, however it means obeying a load of EU rules that are unpopular with the electorate, so you’d have to sell that part of it to voters.
More proof that Starmer’s push for a second referendum was just to sabotage Labour and lose the Red Wall. The man’s a snake whose words mean nothing.
the equivalent of being in the shower and coming up with a comeback when the moment has long since passed
No brainer from Starmer.
Re-entry is not on the table for a generation. This is a compromise.
It would be absolutely fascinating to have a 2nd referendum, just to see how much the country has changed its mind.
He’s stuck, isn’t he? He can’t give any details about what this “better deal” will entail because doing so would mean acknowledging that there would be additional obligations (e.g. dynamic alignment with specific EU rules to remove some border checks, freedom of movement for single market participation) and that the deal would still be strictly worse than membership in any case. Doing so would, of course, prompt his opponents and the tabloid press to set the dogs on him for “betraying Brexit”.
On the other hand, not giving any details means that those who opposed Brexit don’t know what meaningful improvements to expect, which in practice means they will assume there won’t be any.
Of course, he can’t promise to undo Brexit either because the EU will almost certainly reject UK re-accession at this point, and is likely to insist on additional safeguards in future any agreements due to the UK’s recent habit of breaking them. All of that makes it extremely risky to try to build a government on specific promises that rely on EU cooperation.
As a general trend, it seems the UK’s political system is shifting away from a hard Brexit, but that does not mean it is moving towards a realistic soft Brexit either. It is far more plausible that it will pivot back to its original position, the special deals of the early May government (“Norway+”, “have-our-cake-and-eat-it”, “single market membership with opt-outs”, …) which, of course, won’t be any more acceptable now to the EU than they were back in 2017. The moderate fractions in the UK parliament are stuck in the same old bind where any realistic deal worth negotiating will come with a price tag that will be politically damaging, whereas the UK’s current position is untenable economically. They can’t afford to do anything meaningful, and they can’t afford to do nothing either, so they’ll likely just waste time prevaricating and working out pointless agreements in the margin. The most likely outcome is that the UK’s political establishment will keep going round in circles on this for years to come.
Rejoining the single market is realistically the only way for it to work.
“What I want to do and what we would do if we were in government is make Brexit work which is, make sure we’ve got a better deal that works.”
Bit short on specifics isn’t it?
It is now obvious to all but the most deluded that Brexit is failing Britain badly. But despite all the polls showing that the deluded are in a rapidly shrinking minority, Labour lacks the political courage to confront that reality. I will not vote for any party that lacks a serious plan to return Britain to the single market as an essential first step in repairing this mess.
Why in the name of all that is holy won’t labour embrace a Rejoin policy? They are missing the biggest home run in the history of british politics
Didn’t Starmer give a three-line whip to Labour MPs vote for this Tory Brexit deal?
Oh ,Peel me a grape 🤪🤣
I’d much rather back Starmer’s vision of Brexit than Johnson’s.
As far as I’m concerned, we should negotiate a reduced tariff trade deal with the EU, put Irish reunification on the cards to resolve the NI border issue, switch to a points-based immigration system and invest heavily in reviving UK manufacturing.
I love these statements where there is no proof that it will happen. There is only one way you can get a better, and that’s to have open borders again. Not a great idea when we can already only feed less that 50% of our population
Sigh. Why keep on propping up a failed right wing pack of lies?
Kinda sad to me how anti EU the UK seems to be
The deal is already done. Get on with it you lying chancers.
If you try and be Tory lite people will just vote Tory. This is what Labour doesn’t get.
This makes very little sense. What is a “better deal”? There is no point for the EU to treat non-EU members in a “privileged” manner, so why should the UK get a “better deal” than, say, Norway or Switzerland? That makes absolutely no sense.
It seems to me as if nobody in the UK really knows what to do in a post-BREXIT world. The Ireland situation is another wonderful example of wanting to cherrypick but deny any responsibility or trade-off as a result of that. That’s not going to work.
25 comments
Same rhetoric, same bullshit.
Starmer is a plant, and Labour won’t be taken seriously until they remove him.
What exactly does a “better deal” entail, Kier? I find it hard to believe Labour can reach a consensus on anything, let alone make an actual plan.
Let me appeal to the 17m by insulting and ignoring the 16m.
Typical Keith.
No deal will get us back to the privelidged status and perks we had as a member.
Just be honest and admit it was a mistake to leave without knowing what leave meant.
Gonna be fun for the UK electorate choosing between deep navy blue and a more moderate shade of royal blue next election. /s
Seriously though people are screaming for genuine change and if the left (not to mention 2016s 48%, based on this…) give the greens a 10-15 percent vote share the lib dems 15 percent makes moderate tories shrug and just stay with the tories and this splits the vote in 2024 and gives the Tories a free win then Labour only have themselves to blame at this point.
Its not 1997 anymore.
The ‘better deal’ is available, with freer trade, however it means obeying a load of EU rules that are unpopular with the electorate, so you’d have to sell that part of it to voters.
More proof that Starmer’s push for a second referendum was just to sabotage Labour and lose the Red Wall. The man’s a snake whose words mean nothing.
the equivalent of being in the shower and coming up with a comeback when the moment has long since passed
No brainer from Starmer.
Re-entry is not on the table for a generation. This is a compromise.
It would be absolutely fascinating to have a 2nd referendum, just to see how much the country has changed its mind.
He’s stuck, isn’t he? He can’t give any details about what this “better deal” will entail because doing so would mean acknowledging that there would be additional obligations (e.g. dynamic alignment with specific EU rules to remove some border checks, freedom of movement for single market participation) and that the deal would still be strictly worse than membership in any case. Doing so would, of course, prompt his opponents and the tabloid press to set the dogs on him for “betraying Brexit”.
On the other hand, not giving any details means that those who opposed Brexit don’t know what meaningful improvements to expect, which in practice means they will assume there won’t be any.
Of course, he can’t promise to undo Brexit either because the EU will almost certainly reject UK re-accession at this point, and is likely to insist on additional safeguards in future any agreements due to the UK’s recent habit of breaking them. All of that makes it extremely risky to try to build a government on specific promises that rely on EU cooperation.
As a general trend, it seems the UK’s political system is shifting away from a hard Brexit, but that does not mean it is moving towards a realistic soft Brexit either. It is far more plausible that it will pivot back to its original position, the special deals of the early May government (“Norway+”, “have-our-cake-and-eat-it”, “single market membership with opt-outs”, …) which, of course, won’t be any more acceptable now to the EU than they were back in 2017. The moderate fractions in the UK parliament are stuck in the same old bind where any realistic deal worth negotiating will come with a price tag that will be politically damaging, whereas the UK’s current position is untenable economically. They can’t afford to do anything meaningful, and they can’t afford to do nothing either, so they’ll likely just waste time prevaricating and working out pointless agreements in the margin. The most likely outcome is that the UK’s political establishment will keep going round in circles on this for years to come.
Rejoining the single market is realistically the only way for it to work.
“What I want to do and what we would do if we were in government is make Brexit work which is, make sure we’ve got a better deal that works.”
Bit short on specifics isn’t it?
It is now obvious to all but the most deluded that Brexit is failing Britain badly. But despite all the polls showing that the deluded are in a rapidly shrinking minority, Labour lacks the political courage to confront that reality. I will not vote for any party that lacks a serious plan to return Britain to the single market as an essential first step in repairing this mess.
Why in the name of all that is holy won’t labour embrace a Rejoin policy? They are missing the biggest home run in the history of british politics
Didn’t Starmer give a three-line whip to Labour MPs vote for this Tory Brexit deal?
Oh ,Peel me a grape 🤪🤣
I’d much rather back Starmer’s vision of Brexit than Johnson’s.
As far as I’m concerned, we should negotiate a reduced tariff trade deal with the EU, put Irish reunification on the cards to resolve the NI border issue, switch to a points-based immigration system and invest heavily in reviving UK manufacturing.
I love these statements where there is no proof that it will happen. There is only one way you can get a better, and that’s to have open borders again. Not a great idea when we can already only feed less that 50% of our population
Sigh. Why keep on propping up a failed right wing pack of lies?
Kinda sad to me how anti EU the UK seems to be
The deal is already done. Get on with it you lying chancers.
If you try and be Tory lite people will just vote Tory. This is what Labour doesn’t get.
This makes very little sense. What is a “better deal”? There is no point for the EU to treat non-EU members in a “privileged” manner, so why should the UK get a “better deal” than, say, Norway or Switzerland? That makes absolutely no sense.
It seems to me as if nobody in the UK really knows what to do in a post-BREXIT world. The Ireland situation is another wonderful example of wanting to cherrypick but deny any responsibility or trade-off as a result of that. That’s not going to work.
Labour are clueless!