They’re not wrong and it’s something we need to change. Europe must be able to fight for itself.
based and freedom-pilled
But it should be.
If France made it clear they were willing to use their nukes for the continent, you’d probably be good.
Sure we can, it obviously depends against who we are fighting. A nuclear war with Russia would be easy…
Or are only talking a convention so war with Russia because sure we could.. we might not ha e enough ammo but I don’t think Russia could defeat all of EU even then…
The question remains against whom?
While we watch Russia getting back to T-62 tanks, we can hardly announce it’s our “Red party” in war-games and our most likely enemy. Including the fact that a russian attack on EU would look rather different then what we are watching now (no matter how few airplanes we have – we certainly have a much more capable and noumerous force than Ukraine has now)
If we are talking about projecting power, the question remains which direction? Another Mali/Lybia, etc.? Or China?
That’s 3 totally different scenarios which need 3 totally different defense set-up. And I think the “Russia will be our arch-enemy for the next 5 decades” is just as wrong, as “Russia might become our friendly neighbour”. Russia will just become irrelevant one way or the other over the next decade.
Pretty cool that a country created by a bunch of rejects, rural poors, and religious nuts from Europe would eventually become so much more powerful than the place that cast them aside.
Europe is not a united country. Some European countries can defend themselves, others can’t.
I wouldn’t go that far. If anything the war showed that it most likely could if it wanted to. Quite easily.
Quite the statement coming from the very party that consistently tried to undermine and block all efforts to further European security and military integration that are necessary to be able to cover our own security needs and capabilities.
Polish nationalist are honestly so tiring in their baseless distrust and grievance towards their fellow neighbors and supposed friends.
It is a choice to be reliant on America for security. It is not immutable law of nature.
If they had an actual interest in European security they would strife to further cooperation not prevent.
If they actually cared for European security they would have allowed frontex to the Belarusian border.
If they were actually interested in European security they wouldnt let that poison dwarf kaszynski slander effort for European cooperation as “building the fourth Reich” anytime he is let our near a microphone.
Honestly the hypocrisy is breath taking
The issue is that in order to contain countries with large populations and vast natural resources like Russia and China, Europe has two choices: federalization or balancing by allying with another power.
I think most Europeans would prefer the second option. We have managed to maintain our national sovereignty while seeing our standards of living rise without being dominated by a power sharing the same landmass as us.
Note that this relationship is mutually beneficial. The US cannot allow the Rimland peninsular areas of Eurasia like Europe, Japan and S. Korea be dominated by an inland power because they depend heavily on maritime trade.
Everyone shitting on Germany here and I’m happy with this, BUT.
It’s not the Germans – it’s all of the western Europe, that would rather fall into submission, then fight back. You can push whatever percentage of GDP into military, but that won’t change the fact that “westoids” doesn’t want to fight.
Exactly. I’m tyred of the German hypocrecy. Germany was playing to be the social justice warrior teenager, closing its “non-ecological” energy sources and making itself more dependent on Russian oil, while investing little in their defense because, obviously, the US was behind. Now they have to open their coal industries and increase military spending. They will not be able to virtue-signal the US anymore lol
After Cold War ended Europe largely demilitarized itself Military cost a lot of money (and good military costs even more) without giving any tangible benefit unless there is war. And if there is war Europeans figured that US would come in and help out. The issue with this logic is that US may not be able to logistically move so many troops and equipment to stop Russians in a non-nuclear confrontation. Europeans must have capable militaries to be able to withstand first blow. Besides UK and France European militaries are not suited for large scale operations
It’s a correct, realist statement.
I don’t get the outrage. Should we lie and distort reality instead?
Now, assuming that people got pissed off because they dislike the statement, that implies we shouldn’t rely on the US, and Europe should develop significant armed forces, with sizable investment and R&D.
You guys really sure you want that?
Our defense obligations range from our own countries to other EU & NATO members, not to other European countries outside of that.
France, UK, hopefully Germany & Turkey, can indeed defend themselves.
But the U.S. is essential for Europe, thats for sure.
This is the hard truth that Europeans are beginning to realize. We clearly see that Russia is a threat to the whole continent right now, and eventually China will be too. Either European countries step up their military spending, or continue to depend on USA for protection, which in return will mean continued favors for the US.
Maybe you guys try to not behave like Russians are some subhumans. This war is not unprovoked and all of you knows this.
That’s because it’s been USA’s eunuch since 1945.
Yikes. But not a surprinsing take for a vassal country of USA. The right answer is an european defense, without the influence of foreign decadent power.
The bigotry and hatred against western europe espoused by some poles here is quite sickening.
It’s frustrating having Europeans mock America for being World Police, and then completely flounder when a crisis predictably pops up in their own back yard and depend on America for help yet again. Mostly talking about Germany and France here, the countries bordering Russia are doing their part considering their size. I do want America to stop playing World Police, but don’t think we can do that unless our allies step up their own militaries to match our disarmament.
They said the same thing about Ukraine…
Headline is bit weird. European countries can’t collectively defend all European countries without US currently. Which is true.
26 comments
Is this guy called Sherlock?
They’re not wrong and it’s something we need to change. Europe must be able to fight for itself.
based and freedom-pilled
But it should be.
If France made it clear they were willing to use their nukes for the continent, you’d probably be good.
Sure we can, it obviously depends against who we are fighting. A nuclear war with Russia would be easy…
Or are only talking a convention so war with Russia because sure we could.. we might not ha e enough ammo but I don’t think Russia could defeat all of EU even then…
The question remains against whom?
While we watch Russia getting back to T-62 tanks, we can hardly announce it’s our “Red party” in war-games and our most likely enemy. Including the fact that a russian attack on EU would look rather different then what we are watching now (no matter how few airplanes we have – we certainly have a much more capable and noumerous force than Ukraine has now)
If we are talking about projecting power, the question remains which direction? Another Mali/Lybia, etc.? Or China?
That’s 3 totally different scenarios which need 3 totally different defense set-up. And I think the “Russia will be our arch-enemy for the next 5 decades” is just as wrong, as “Russia might become our friendly neighbour”. Russia will just become irrelevant one way or the other over the next decade.
Pretty cool that a country created by a bunch of rejects, rural poors, and religious nuts from Europe would eventually become so much more powerful than the place that cast them aside.
Europe is not a united country. Some European countries can defend themselves, others can’t.
I wouldn’t go that far. If anything the war showed that it most likely could if it wanted to. Quite easily.
Quite the statement coming from the very party that consistently tried to undermine and block all efforts to further European security and military integration that are necessary to be able to cover our own security needs and capabilities.
Polish nationalist are honestly so tiring in their baseless distrust and grievance towards their fellow neighbors and supposed friends.
It is a choice to be reliant on America for security. It is not immutable law of nature.
If they had an actual interest in European security they would strife to further cooperation not prevent.
If they actually cared for European security they would have allowed frontex to the Belarusian border.
If they were actually interested in European security they wouldnt let that poison dwarf kaszynski slander effort for European cooperation as “building the fourth Reich” anytime he is let our near a microphone.
Honestly the hypocrisy is breath taking
The issue is that in order to contain countries with large populations and vast natural resources like Russia and China, Europe has two choices: federalization or balancing by allying with another power.
I think most Europeans would prefer the second option. We have managed to maintain our national sovereignty while seeing our standards of living rise without being dominated by a power sharing the same landmass as us.
Note that this relationship is mutually beneficial. The US cannot allow the Rimland peninsular areas of Eurasia like Europe, Japan and S. Korea be dominated by an inland power because they depend heavily on maritime trade.
Everyone shitting on Germany here and I’m happy with this, BUT.
It’s not the Germans – it’s all of the western Europe, that would rather fall into submission, then fight back. You can push whatever percentage of GDP into military, but that won’t change the fact that “westoids” doesn’t want to fight.
Exactly. I’m tyred of the German hypocrecy. Germany was playing to be the social justice warrior teenager, closing its “non-ecological” energy sources and making itself more dependent on Russian oil, while investing little in their defense because, obviously, the US was behind. Now they have to open their coal industries and increase military spending. They will not be able to virtue-signal the US anymore lol
After Cold War ended Europe largely demilitarized itself Military cost a lot of money (and good military costs even more) without giving any tangible benefit unless there is war. And if there is war Europeans figured that US would come in and help out. The issue with this logic is that US may not be able to logistically move so many troops and equipment to stop Russians in a non-nuclear confrontation. Europeans must have capable militaries to be able to withstand first blow. Besides UK and France European militaries are not suited for large scale operations
It’s a correct, realist statement.
I don’t get the outrage. Should we lie and distort reality instead?
Now, assuming that people got pissed off because they dislike the statement, that implies we shouldn’t rely on the US, and Europe should develop significant armed forces, with sizable investment and R&D.
You guys really sure you want that?
Our defense obligations range from our own countries to other EU & NATO members, not to other European countries outside of that.
France, UK, hopefully Germany & Turkey, can indeed defend themselves.
But the U.S. is essential for Europe, thats for sure.
This is the hard truth that Europeans are beginning to realize. We clearly see that Russia is a threat to the whole continent right now, and eventually China will be too. Either European countries step up their military spending, or continue to depend on USA for protection, which in return will mean continued favors for the US.
Maybe you guys try to not behave like Russians are some subhumans. This war is not unprovoked and all of you knows this.
That’s because it’s been USA’s eunuch since 1945.
Yikes. But not a surprinsing take for a vassal country of USA. The right answer is an european defense, without the influence of foreign decadent power.
The bigotry and hatred against western europe espoused by some poles here is quite sickening.
It’s frustrating having Europeans mock America for being World Police, and then completely flounder when a crisis predictably pops up in their own back yard and depend on America for help yet again. Mostly talking about Germany and France here, the countries bordering Russia are doing their part considering their size. I do want America to stop playing World Police, but don’t think we can do that unless our allies step up their own militaries to match our disarmament.
They said the same thing about Ukraine…
Headline is bit weird. European countries can’t collectively defend all European countries without US currently. Which is true.