Looks like the British obsession with class as a cultural/social thing is changing with younger generations – younger Brits say Marcus Rashford is “upper class” (because of his wealth), for example, whereas older Brits say he’s “working class” because of his background. Worth a read!
Hmm, my builder earns 3 times my wage but I use an aeropress and he has 6 sugars in his tea.
I’m not so sure the British public is correct.
If you work, you’re working class. And the working class should stick together
The British public aren’t wrong, merely confused about cause and effect.
Your class largely determines your salary, which then determines your class.
But of course, the true upper class don’t have salaries as they live off inherited wealth, usually land.
It does get a bit ridiculous when guys earning hundreds of thousands through e.g. property investment claim working class credentials because their dad was a miner, while an educated person on a standard middle class salary becomes part of the ‘metropolitan elite’. The latter is much more impacted by inflation and the housing crisis than the former.
It’s factually not the case. Class and income band are not the same thing. Class is closer to sub-ethnic group than anything tied to income.
Do you think they would allow Jamie Vardy at a polo meet?
The headline is slightly overselling the fact that salary *barely* came above family background:
So it’s the biggest factor but it’s not overwhelming everything else.
More to the point, if we say that salary and wealth are the main indicators of class then the whole concept of class becomes a bit meaningless. At that point saying that someone’s upper class is no different to saying they’re rich and saying that they’re working class is no different to saying that they’re poor.
Defining things in that way ignores the benefits of being seen to be a certain class in certain settings and the drawbacks and discrimination which come from being seen to be the “wrong” class in other situations!
Income has little to do with class in the UK or Europe.
The idea of income being linked to class is a very US concept that has only recently been imported to Europe. The fact we even have the concept of being “nouveau riche” strongly supports the idea that there is a hell of a lot more refinement in class than the state of your bank account.
What absolute twaddle.
Me and my pals are more working class than anyone, so if we won the euro millions tonight you think we’d be allowed at Henley Regatta? Or swanning about at Ascot?
We’d be spat at and sneered at by middle class and upper class arseholes.
What use is “class” if you can’t afford to do anything?
In Britain, it takes a lot of money to be able to afford anything.
I remember getting very angry once to think that I’d passed through various difficult tests, aced demanding interviews, finally achieved “the dream” of landing a respectable, professional job … only to find that I couldn’t afford to live anywhere other somewhere utterly shit.
I went for viewings to a bunch of flats. Almost all of them were shit. Clastrophobic, and I’d basically be sharing my life with some stranger who is potentially a weirdo.
So I finally pulled the trigger on the best viewing with a guy who I had a lot of common interests with. He turned out to be a grumpy weirdo and was actually stealing from me by the end by overcharging for utilities. It couldn’t have even been that much, but he admitted to stealing. It seems that people will completely sell their integrity for just a few quid.
The idea that you have to be some kind of yuppie just to afford a small flat of your own without some weirdo in it, speaks to how low standards have fallen in this country.
That isn’t even getting to new builds being heat traps which are not at all equipped for global warming. Or the boilers being dated pieces of shit which are always breaking when it’s freezing cold in the winter. These were problems that you have to deal with even when you manage to extricate yourselves from probable weirdo and at best stranger housemates.
It is like as a nation we are always making excuses and saying stuff like “At least we don’t have school shootings”, instead of focusing on fixing the dismal housing and improving our quality of life. Housing really makes a huge difference to our day-to-day happiness. That really cannot be underscored enough. It is literally 1000 times, or more than 1000 times, more important than general LGBT issues which we never stop hearing about on Reddit and in the media. People including LGBT people cannot even have sexual freedom to begin with if they’re living in clastrophobic house shares and they have no money left.
I remember being taught in school that it was determined by occupation
your salary, inc where its from, seems to be closer to the mark.
Just look at Jordan or Cokehead Katona.
Middle class to me was about profession.
Doctors, lawyers, accountants, university lecturers, architects… – middle class.
It gets more hazy at the boundaries, but the core (for me at least) hasn’t really changed.
People are wrong, it’s wealth, not income. Wealth often being built up over generations
It’s *socio-economic* status, it involved both aspects of wealth and social influence/security/position.
I was always under the impression that’s its more what you spend your money on that indicates your class, not so much your salary.
So all these very rich pop stars are now upper class. All these American rappers driving round in Rolls Royce’s are upper class lol.
Sir Alan Sugar is upper class lol. Simon Cowell is upper class lol. Ant and Dec are upper class lol.
This is a debate that’ll go nowhere. Class means different things to different people & in different contexts, there are no rights no wrongs.
Me; I’ve spent my entire adult life identifying as working class, despite making a very good living as a professional with good academic achievement, to the great amusement of many around me including my wife. Why do I persist? Because it is my belief that the values I learned from my milkman father & disabled mother, growing up on a council estate were those that enabled my personal growth & gave me the humility, drive and commitment to achieve what I have.
No. It’s your wealth. The two are basically disconnected at this point.
They say that but if some lower class folk on high wages meet with a bunch of actual middle upper class folk. The lower class folk will still be looked down upon.
It’s not your salary that determines your class, it’s how you spend it.
22 comments
Looks like the British obsession with class as a cultural/social thing is changing with younger generations – younger Brits say Marcus Rashford is “upper class” (because of his wealth), for example, whereas older Brits say he’s “working class” because of his background. Worth a read!
Hmm, my builder earns 3 times my wage but I use an aeropress and he has 6 sugars in his tea.
I’m not so sure the British public is correct.
If you work, you’re working class. And the working class should stick together
The British public aren’t wrong, merely confused about cause and effect.
Your class largely determines your salary, which then determines your class.
But of course, the true upper class don’t have salaries as they live off inherited wealth, usually land.
It does get a bit ridiculous when guys earning hundreds of thousands through e.g. property investment claim working class credentials because their dad was a miner, while an educated person on a standard middle class salary becomes part of the ‘metropolitan elite’. The latter is much more impacted by inflation and the housing crisis than the former.
It’s factually not the case. Class and income band are not the same thing. Class is closer to sub-ethnic group than anything tied to income.
Do you think they would allow Jamie Vardy at a polo meet?
The headline is slightly overselling the fact that salary *barely* came above family background:
– 56% Salary
– 50% Family background
– 41% Education
– 37% Inherited wealth
– 35% Occupation
– 25% Housing situation
So it’s the biggest factor but it’s not overwhelming everything else.
More to the point, if we say that salary and wealth are the main indicators of class then the whole concept of class becomes a bit meaningless. At that point saying that someone’s upper class is no different to saying they’re rich and saying that they’re working class is no different to saying that they’re poor.
Defining things in that way ignores the benefits of being seen to be a certain class in certain settings and the drawbacks and discrimination which come from being seen to be the “wrong” class in other situations!
Income has little to do with class in the UK or Europe.
The idea of income being linked to class is a very US concept that has only recently been imported to Europe. The fact we even have the concept of being “nouveau riche” strongly supports the idea that there is a hell of a lot more refinement in class than the state of your bank account.
What absolute twaddle.
Me and my pals are more working class than anyone, so if we won the euro millions tonight you think we’d be allowed at Henley Regatta? Or swanning about at Ascot?
We’d be spat at and sneered at by middle class and upper class arseholes.
What use is “class” if you can’t afford to do anything?
In Britain, it takes a lot of money to be able to afford anything.
I remember getting very angry once to think that I’d passed through various difficult tests, aced demanding interviews, finally achieved “the dream” of landing a respectable, professional job … only to find that I couldn’t afford to live anywhere other somewhere utterly shit.
I went for viewings to a bunch of flats. Almost all of them were shit. Clastrophobic, and I’d basically be sharing my life with some stranger who is potentially a weirdo.
So I finally pulled the trigger on the best viewing with a guy who I had a lot of common interests with. He turned out to be a grumpy weirdo and was actually stealing from me by the end by overcharging for utilities. It couldn’t have even been that much, but he admitted to stealing. It seems that people will completely sell their integrity for just a few quid.
The idea that you have to be some kind of yuppie just to afford a small flat of your own without some weirdo in it, speaks to how low standards have fallen in this country.
That isn’t even getting to new builds being heat traps which are not at all equipped for global warming. Or the boilers being dated pieces of shit which are always breaking when it’s freezing cold in the winter. These were problems that you have to deal with even when you manage to extricate yourselves from probable weirdo and at best stranger housemates.
It is like as a nation we are always making excuses and saying stuff like “At least we don’t have school shootings”, instead of focusing on fixing the dismal housing and improving our quality of life. Housing really makes a huge difference to our day-to-day happiness. That really cannot be underscored enough. It is literally 1000 times, or more than 1000 times, more important than general LGBT issues which we never stop hearing about on Reddit and in the media. People including LGBT people cannot even have sexual freedom to begin with if they’re living in clastrophobic house shares and they have no money left.
I remember being taught in school that it was determined by occupation
your salary, inc where its from, seems to be closer to the mark.
Just look at Jordan or Cokehead Katona.
Middle class to me was about profession.
Doctors, lawyers, accountants, university lecturers, architects… – middle class.
It gets more hazy at the boundaries, but the core (for me at least) hasn’t really changed.
People are wrong, it’s wealth, not income. Wealth often being built up over generations
It’s *socio-economic* status, it involved both aspects of wealth and social influence/security/position.
I was always under the impression that’s its more what you spend your money on that indicates your class, not so much your salary.
So all these very rich pop stars are now upper class. All these American rappers driving round in Rolls Royce’s are upper class lol.
Sir Alan Sugar is upper class lol. Simon Cowell is upper class lol. Ant and Dec are upper class lol.
This is a debate that’ll go nowhere. Class means different things to different people & in different contexts, there are no rights no wrongs.
Me; I’ve spent my entire adult life identifying as working class, despite making a very good living as a professional with good academic achievement, to the great amusement of many around me including my wife. Why do I persist? Because it is my belief that the values I learned from my milkman father & disabled mother, growing up on a council estate were those that enabled my personal growth & gave me the humility, drive and commitment to achieve what I have.
No. It’s your wealth. The two are basically disconnected at this point.
They say that but if some lower class folk on high wages meet with a bunch of actual middle upper class folk. The lower class folk will still be looked down upon.
It’s not your salary that determines your class, it’s how you spend it.