Not even sure if this is Erdogans goal at all. I mean look at it. So he would expect from these country’s that they will tell their children following story in future:
So, to give up our independency and neutrality to join NATO, we just had to sell our own values by handing over some humans to a mad dictator.”
Maybe he just wants some attention and some money, maybe some new fighting jets or something like this. Well. Or he really is just a old man loosing grip of reality.
Sweden and Finland should just say sure, anything you want, we’ll sign a paper saying we’ll support your oppression of Kurds etc.
Then they join NATO. And then they say actually no, we’ve decided not to do that, it was signed under duress. Erdo˘gan can do nothing at that point.
Alternatively everyone except Turkey gets invited to a new treaty organization with basically the same rules. You could call it NATO 2.
Or Sweden could just wait for the results of next Turkish election. Why give Erdogan something to brag about during next election campaign? That’s probably his main goal at the moment
the article doesn’t mention in which way “swedish citizens” will “pay the price”; only thing close to it is a rant about turkey invading rojava, which, as far as i can tell, has nothing to do with sweden.
There are 15-20 millions of Kurds living in Turkey. They don’t fear, but Kurds in Sweden who used to be Turkish citizen (possibly still) fear.
Hmm I wonder why?
Can it be because they bombed, killed Turkish citizens as a terrorists?
(I’m sure there are teenagers respond to my post and act like they know every thing about Turkey better then Turks and Kurds…
There are many examples in internet very funny… Bunch of people from far away from Turkey claim facts about Kurds in Turkey. Many Kurds from Turkey say no it’s not true in the posts, then those people insist and try to persuade the Kurds that it’s correct lol 😂 > it seems they know Turkey better than any one include Turks and Kurds)…
Sweden has 100.000 Swedish Kurds. Turkey currently has hundreds of thousands of Syrian Kurdish refugees who come from north of Syria but do not want to live under the rule of YPG.
The question is why should the Kurdish diaspora in Scandinavia, a lot of whom have never set foot either in Turkey or Syria decide for and impose their views on millions of Kurds who actually live in the region?
Supporting YPG unconditionally is actually imposing a communist extremist organisation’s rule on locals who want nothing to do with them. How does that promote democracy?
When even the Iraqi Kurds support Turkey on this one, shouldn’t Sweden and Finland take some distance from the narrative of the diaspora and consider the data?
Edit: so the downvoting began within the minute as all Turks know will happen when we comment here. Would some of the people who will downvote have the curtesy to explain how they think this comment does not contribute to the debate? Or which part of the comment they object to? Or it whether it is simply a way to say “you’re a Turk, I don’t like you and this is all I can do”? TIA
Unfortunately if they involved in terrorism
They have nothing to worry about. There is practically 0 popular support for giving in to any of Turkey’s ridiculous demands in either Sweden or Finland.
Very racist of the writer to group all Kurds into one category just because of some PKK supporters.
Sweden’s Kurds need not fear, unless the are terrorists.
You have to fear if you involved in terrorism. You cannot put all those people in one basket.
So OP just assumed Sweden’s Kurds are all associated with PKK.
Oh god the Turkish trolls storming this post
There is no public support for throwing the kurds under the bus in a non constitutional way. What can happen though is that the small ties that exist with YPG is cut.
Can’t you just fake give in, say ‘haha, you fool’, and revert all policies to before?
Given the track-record of human rights in Sweden it seems highly unlikely that Kurds, as a whole group, would be thrown under the bust just because some dictator in the Asia thinks they should.
Sweden is basically *willing* to join NATO. It does not have a particularly dire need to do so at any cost. So I’d imagine that there is a bit more sweating on the NATO side of the fence over the Turkey throwing a last second tantrum than there is on the side of Finland/Sweden.
I am sure there are a lot more people in different spots in NATO working super hard to smooth these things out than there is in Finland/Sweden.
These two are quite a prize, when (not if) they do join. Although basically them stating that they will and applying for that spot has already dramatically shifted things around geopolitically. Erdogan is an old man, it is theoretically possible that this problem will sort itself out within a half a decade or so even if Turkey keeps insisting on stuff that Sweden and Finland can not deliver because they are democratic countries.
the problem is only with terrorist people, not whole kurdish people. i live in turkey and i know kurdish people living like a normal person and dont explode the buses or kidnap childs etc. this article just another bs propaganda. the funny thing is most of kurdish people vote for erdogan lmao
Kurd and other Middle East “migrants” are ruining Sweden, so deport them. Win win
Cant that turk die already, he seems upset at everything and everyone
Not Kurds, PKK dogs
This has almost nothing to do with Sweden or Finland. This is business as usual in negotiations with Turkey.
Turkey has had the same demand for *years*, for example terror labeling YPG/PYD, and NATO (without Sweden) has refused. Now the demands are extremely vague again. This isn’t an accident, it’s because the demands aren’t really directed at Sweden and Finland, but on NATO as a whole. It makes almost no difference to Turkey whether Sweden alone would terror-label the PYD. The wording is vague and not-so-secretly directed at the US, Germany, France…
Same with the demand to stop the weapons embargos. Curiously, neither Sweden or Finland HAS any weapons embargoes against turkey. Nor are there any likely weapons trades to be done. But – Turkey wanted F-35s and now wants F-16s… and *those* are blocked. It’s pretty obvious who the “remove the wepons embargo!” is directed at.
And the reason Biden stays out of this is because the second he steps in, he knows he’ll get the list of demands and the stakes are just raised. The stakes in the Turkey-Sweedn-Finland negotiation are low, because there is so little Sweden/Finland have that Turkey wants. And Turkey knows this. So that’s why this whole negotiation is so damn weird. The list of demands have 2 halves one half that is downright impossible, such as extraditing anyone to Turkey. Turkey of course KNOWS this is impossible, so those items are only there for “show”. The other half is demands that aren’t even directed at Sweden but at the US or NATO.
Turkey needs to stfu, imo. And needs to treat its citizens a lot better.
can someone please explain whats going on in a simple way? im kurdish myself and i feel like i should worry?? but my english isnt all that good so its quite hard for me to understand some sentences
Erdogan ist a Turkey Putin. I think we have to wait a year and next try after election😉
24 comments
Not even sure if this is Erdogans goal at all. I mean look at it. So he would expect from these country’s that they will tell their children following story in future:
So, to give up our independency and neutrality to join NATO, we just had to sell our own values by handing over some humans to a mad dictator.”
Maybe he just wants some attention and some money, maybe some new fighting jets or something like this. Well. Or he really is just a old man loosing grip of reality.
Sweden and Finland should just say sure, anything you want, we’ll sign a paper saying we’ll support your oppression of Kurds etc.
Then they join NATO. And then they say actually no, we’ve decided not to do that, it was signed under duress. Erdo˘gan can do nothing at that point.
Alternatively everyone except Turkey gets invited to a new treaty organization with basically the same rules. You could call it NATO 2.
Or Sweden could just wait for the results of next Turkish election. Why give Erdogan something to brag about during next election campaign? That’s probably his main goal at the moment
the article doesn’t mention in which way “swedish citizens” will “pay the price”; only thing close to it is a rant about turkey invading rojava, which, as far as i can tell, has nothing to do with sweden.
There are 15-20 millions of Kurds living in Turkey. They don’t fear, but Kurds in Sweden who used to be Turkish citizen (possibly still) fear.
Hmm I wonder why?
Can it be because they bombed, killed Turkish citizens as a terrorists?
(I’m sure there are teenagers respond to my post and act like they know every thing about Turkey better then Turks and Kurds…
There are many examples in internet very funny… Bunch of people from far away from Turkey claim facts about Kurds in Turkey. Many Kurds from Turkey say no it’s not true in the posts, then those people insist and try to persuade the Kurds that it’s correct lol 😂 > it seems they know Turkey better than any one include Turks and Kurds)…
Sweden has 100.000 Swedish Kurds. Turkey currently has hundreds of thousands of Syrian Kurdish refugees who come from north of Syria but do not want to live under the rule of YPG.
The question is why should the Kurdish diaspora in Scandinavia, a lot of whom have never set foot either in Turkey or Syria decide for and impose their views on millions of Kurds who actually live in the region?
Supporting YPG unconditionally is actually imposing a communist extremist organisation’s rule on locals who want nothing to do with them. How does that promote democracy?
When even the Iraqi Kurds support Turkey on this one, shouldn’t Sweden and Finland take some distance from the narrative of the diaspora and consider the data?
Edit: so the downvoting began within the minute as all Turks know will happen when we comment here. Would some of the people who will downvote have the curtesy to explain how they think this comment does not contribute to the debate? Or which part of the comment they object to? Or it whether it is simply a way to say “you’re a Turk, I don’t like you and this is all I can do”? TIA
Unfortunately if they involved in terrorism
They have nothing to worry about. There is practically 0 popular support for giving in to any of Turkey’s ridiculous demands in either Sweden or Finland.
Very racist of the writer to group all Kurds into one category just because of some PKK supporters.
Sweden’s Kurds need not fear, unless the are terrorists.
You have to fear if you involved in terrorism. You cannot put all those people in one basket.
So OP just assumed Sweden’s Kurds are all associated with PKK.
Oh god the Turkish trolls storming this post
There is no public support for throwing the kurds under the bus in a non constitutional way. What can happen though is that the small ties that exist with YPG is cut.
Can’t you just fake give in, say ‘haha, you fool’, and revert all policies to before?
Given the track-record of human rights in Sweden it seems highly unlikely that Kurds, as a whole group, would be thrown under the bust just because some dictator in the Asia thinks they should.
Sweden is basically *willing* to join NATO. It does not have a particularly dire need to do so at any cost. So I’d imagine that there is a bit more sweating on the NATO side of the fence over the Turkey throwing a last second tantrum than there is on the side of Finland/Sweden.
I am sure there are a lot more people in different spots in NATO working super hard to smooth these things out than there is in Finland/Sweden.
These two are quite a prize, when (not if) they do join. Although basically them stating that they will and applying for that spot has already dramatically shifted things around geopolitically. Erdogan is an old man, it is theoretically possible that this problem will sort itself out within a half a decade or so even if Turkey keeps insisting on stuff that Sweden and Finland can not deliver because they are democratic countries.
the problem is only with terrorist people, not whole kurdish people. i live in turkey and i know kurdish people living like a normal person and dont explode the buses or kidnap childs etc. this article just another bs propaganda. the funny thing is most of kurdish people vote for erdogan lmao
Kurd and other Middle East “migrants” are ruining Sweden, so deport them. Win win
Cant that turk die already, he seems upset at everything and everyone
Not Kurds, PKK dogs
This has almost nothing to do with Sweden or Finland. This is business as usual in negotiations with Turkey.
Turkey has had the same demand for *years*, for example terror labeling YPG/PYD, and NATO (without Sweden) has refused. Now the demands are extremely vague again. This isn’t an accident, it’s because the demands aren’t really directed at Sweden and Finland, but on NATO as a whole. It makes almost no difference to Turkey whether Sweden alone would terror-label the PYD. The wording is vague and not-so-secretly directed at the US, Germany, France…
Same with the demand to stop the weapons embargos. Curiously, neither Sweden or Finland HAS any weapons embargoes against turkey. Nor are there any likely weapons trades to be done. But – Turkey wanted F-35s and now wants F-16s… and *those* are blocked. It’s pretty obvious who the “remove the wepons embargo!” is directed at.
And the reason Biden stays out of this is because the second he steps in, he knows he’ll get the list of demands and the stakes are just raised. The stakes in the Turkey-Sweedn-Finland negotiation are low, because there is so little Sweden/Finland have that Turkey wants. And Turkey knows this. So that’s why this whole negotiation is so damn weird. The list of demands have 2 halves one half that is downright impossible, such as extraditing anyone to Turkey. Turkey of course KNOWS this is impossible, so those items are only there for “show”. The other half is demands that aren’t even directed at Sweden but at the US or NATO.
Turkey needs to stfu, imo. And needs to treat its citizens a lot better.
can someone please explain whats going on in a simple way? im kurdish myself and i feel like i should worry?? but my english isnt all that good so its quite hard for me to understand some sentences
Erdogan ist a Turkey Putin. I think we have to wait a year and next try after election😉