Hello neighbors! Just saw in the news that mandatory military service is coming back to Latvia. What are your thoughts?

Better source (thanks [**Cepumgrauzis**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Cepumgrauzis/) ): [https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/defense/latvia-plans-new-military-base-return-of-compulsory-national-service.a464196/](https://eng.lsm.lv/article/society/defense/latvia-plans-new-military-base-return-of-compulsory-national-service.a464196/)

[View Poll](https://www.reddit.com/poll/vskq5z)

47 comments

  5. Im too old for draft. So neutral.

    In my 20s i would be against. In my case i was sole provider of income. Who would take care of my grandparents? Army?

  6. We already had a thread here about this – but, if you insist:
    I believe it should’ve been introduced already in 2015 or so, since this was inevitable if we wanted a permanent capable deterrent force with a serious reserve pool. Due to (probably) low understanding in the population what does modern service entail (due to cliches from the USSR army and the 1990s Latvian one) we tried to patch the problem by promoting professional service and the part-time National Guard. That obviously didnt solve the problem, so it comes to this.

    I like that from the start alternative options are offered, like choosing to serve it out for 5 years in the NG, have an extra platoon commander course in university or doing alternative service (hospital/school/idk). People will still need to be convinced that you can learn practical traits during service (driving licence, mechanic sertificate, comms etc) and not just lay in the dirt with a rifle all the time. And that this is selective – not every male will be drafted, it
    seems.
    Things that still need to be debated: what will the exact draft procedures look like and who will be exempt from this and the monthly compensation amount. And that maybe women can do some civil defense/alt. service for 6 months as well for some balance. 🙂

  7. Everyone here is very worried about the 11 months, however, they have provided alternatives for the mandatory military. I.e. – National guard, other civil services, which in my opinion is good.

    If I understood it correctly, you can just join the National Guard and attend the 20 days p.a. which is not that difficult.

    I’m all for it. It would be great if that would help staff other emergency services and civil services like in other countries (I forgot which did this, but I think they did this in Switzerland or Finland). + It would discipline everyone a lil bit.

  8. Honestly it was a long time coming. And taking into account there’s enough alternatives for those who can’t or don’t wish to serve the year as a conscript, it’s not the worst way we could have done this.

  9. I support it as long as government supports those who serve and they don’t return home to a stack of unpaid bills.

  10. im not wasting a year of my life because some polititian wants me to, sorry. besides, most of the people will forget what they learned during that one year.
    you cant build an army from regular people, who dont practice regularly. regular people dont know how to handle stressful situations properly, and a single year of mandatory service wont teach you that, because a lot of people wont be wanting to learn anyways. Especially for 400 € which is a shit pay.

  11. I guess my thoughts are more negative than positive.

    To me it seems very bad to force someone into service after graduating university. I had mandatory internship in my program and was offered job in the company afterwards, so with how this service looks is that I would have to decline job offer and search for job after year of service. Losing my skill and qualification during time in service. In Soviet times the ones who had compulsory service was the ones not going to university, I think this should be applied here as well.

    Second concern is that government just wants to train machine gun meat. Conflict in Ukraine has shown and rockets and missiles is king. Ukraine currently struggles with defense systems and this has been commented on by foreign volunteers. You can have best training, lots of experience in field, best equipment but you will die from random rocket shot from 50 year old Grad system. So I think this money and resources is better spent investing into heavy defense complexes. We can have compulsory service when 90% of conscripts wont end as casualties from rocket and missile strikes.

  12. This is against the very basics of democracy and self regulation. I don’t owe any fucking country the right to send me to a battlefield to die in a muddy trench, killed by an another conscript in the same situation

  13. If we decide it with a vote. Firstly country would need to train those who voted yes (before training rest), then yes, i support this idea. We should repeat this every 4 years, to make sure that those who want, can train. And this includes woman too.

  14. How a man can defend it’s land properly if he does not want it? It’s just throwing unmotivated people in and expecting them to perform well, that just does not work. Fuck mandatory service, let volunteers be canon meat.

  16. It seems i have to start getting in shape

    I wonder what they will do with fat people. Will there be some sort of camp you have to do before your service begins or will they just throw you in ?

  18. Foreword: I think soldiers are extraordinary heroes for their willingness and moral ability to put their life, mind and body on the line in defence of the people and the country. I am also above the age of conscription, hence it would not apply to me at all.

    That being said, I see this proposed law as a fundamental breach of human and civil rights, that is being proposed in a discriminatory manner and in a way that is not oriented towards an effective and rationally-minded way of solving the issue of preparing our nation for a potential X hour. I consider the law to be a one-mans initiative, likely ordered by foreign nations, that goes so against the principles of our laws and our values, that it should have been voted on through a referendum.

    To detail a bit, since I am spending way too much thinking and stressing about this and I really need to work:

    1. The proposed law **discriminates based on gender** without a clear reason why. Women need info and the preparedness to deal with X hour too. The law being worded as it is shows to me it’s not about the general preparedness as it’s about expanding the military force through coercive measures. Hence it will not help people, it will only punish boys for being born with a dick, which the minister clearly considers the most valuable weapon.
    2. The proposed law **does not solve the issue of people not understanding what to do** during X hour. As mentioned before, it forces military training, and the civil service variants are overly long. Obviously I lack the details right now, but general preparedness to deal with X hour does not require you to spend 6 months volunteering in the Ministry of Health. General preparedness is knowing what to do, where to go. You do not need to take away multiple months of your life to prepare for this, it can be solved in much simpler ways that do not involve militarization of the society.
    3. The proposed law **does not in any way help municipalities and the government deal with a war**. I see no info on establishment of clear volunteering or distribution of responsibilities during wartime – i.e. if we’re invaded what does the municipality and the government do to faciliate effective combat and protection of citizens. The law just puts the emphasis on you, the citizen, doing ”your part”. Obviously there are other laws, but I’d much rather have had one that deals with integration of our minorities, creating of patriotism, establishment of volunteer service (i.e. distribution of weapons, food, clothing etc.) detachments ready to go from the 1st hour, not.. whatever this is.
    4. The law proposes a compensation of 400 EUR for living in barracks. My loans are worth more than that. It removes valuable people from the workforce and puts them in conditions where **they are underpaid learning skills they could have learned in their free time**.
    5. **Participation in combat fundamentally** **must be voluntary.** Combat involves killing people directly (guns) and indirectly (artillery, drones), which fucks people in psychologically, and is not to be taken lightly. As I said – it takes a hero to be a soldier. Combat also involves the real danger of death, mutilation and injury. I consider forcing people into such conditions against their will to be immoral and against principles of our bodily autonomy.
    6. I also do not consider military discipline to be the highest form of self-improvement, and consider other means as alternatives to achieving self-discipline without forcing you into a military role. Sports, yoga, exercise etc..

    All in all – I am absolutely fundamentally against conscription, am willing to protest it and will not risk raising a son in a country where he might have a year of his life taken away to learn how to, possibly against his will, participate in combat. I understand that for some people this is not an issue as they see it as a noble sacrifice, but I am not a nationalist, and I am not of the opinion that one should die for his country unless he chooses to do so. I understand not many people share my fundamental disagreement with this, and I will be labeled a coward, a traitor and whatever else, but I am unmovable on being against conscription.

    I am not against preparing citizens for war and for preparing them for roles they might have in a war, but this is not the way how to do it and doing this puts us in the same shitty gender discriminating and rights breaching position as the other Baltic States, Scandinavia and others who clearly do not care about the bodily autonomy of their boys. Again – not a popular opinion – but I consider all of these nations to be doing something fundamentally immoral, and I refuse to live in a country that does it.

    All in all – against, will protest and do my best to halt this law, and, if not, I am planning to emigrate. That’ll suck for both me and the nation, since I have spent years in various projects and am quite knowledgeable about both our general and IT systems, data architecture etc., but, again, the bodily autonomy of me and my son, and other young boys to choose if we are willing to die for our nation for me is a fundamental value.

  19. I’d rather go to prison than serve for some shitty country that doesn’t give a rats ass about me, completely and utterly against it.

  20. Lithuania here. When we returned draft in 2014 I was still drafting age. I was really opposed against it it looked like waste of year, life ruining experience.

    I was never more stupid. Yes of course military is 70 percent time of sitting around and doing nothing or stupid shit but there is no way to get military education, understand tactics and guns.

    If russians comes I won’t be at their mercy I better die fighting than with my hands tied like in Bucha. And you need military skills for that.

    When I was like 24 I still was doing shit in my life. I am going as volunteer soon when I have family and a lot of business to do when every weekend costs much more than whole months in my 20’s.

  26. I fully support this decision. We are the weak link compared to other baltic states / Finland, so time to pick up the slack and take our defense more seriously. Only thing i am against is why is it 11 months. Isnt a 6 month course enough for the basic skills? These arent professional soldiers we are talking about

  27. It’s forced labour – even the alternative services – and therefore I’m strictly against it. Any country with mandatory military service is one country less where I would work and live.

    **PS:** how would this be introduced? Someone who is, let’s say, 26, may be in the middle of their carrer and have started a family, is he supposed to go and leave everything alone for a year?

    **PPS:** Why is this only compulsory for men? So far for gender equality, it almost always stops at military service.

  28. It incentivisies talent to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible without even looking at a school like the SSE as a cheaper alternative to the UK or the US. People who can will take scholarships from non-target universities just so that they won’t have to get paid 400 fucking euros a month lmao. If you take compound interest into account, it may lead to a total lifetime savings loss of 40k to 50k.

    On the other hand, conscription is character building.

  29. Then what’s the point of studying 12 years at school, if you’re just going to become cannon meat and die? Just throw kids in the battlefield as soon as they can walk, gonna save a lot of money.

  30. I am from Lithuania and we reintroduced military service in 2015. So I will give my opinion and want to see what our Latvian brothers think. What I don’t like about our model is mostly that it’s a lottery. About 3500 men ages 18-26 are drafted each year, while there are about 35000 in the list. Your position in that list mainly determinate if you will be drafted. I was near the end and wasn’t drafted, while my friend was near the beginning and he was drafted. We both didn’t want to go. In my opinion everyone should go to military service after finishing school, no exceptions, unless you have health problems. Girls should go too, also more options should be introduced that wouldn’t include being in the front lines in a case of war.

  31. I don’t support it. People who could do wonderfull things will be dragged into combat and probably die. And they don’t have a choice. Thankfully i’m diabetic, so i probably won’t have to go.

  32. Forced servitude fundamentaly morally wrong, especially when minister of defence is reasoning that this is necessary, because they have trouble making good enough offer to get people to join voluntarily. And in case of war this is not going to help, because these soldiers will be undertrained and unmotivated, it is just a way for politicians to create false sense of security at expanse of youth, instead of making real investments to improve the military.

  34. I am pro mandatory military service. But only because I’m too old to get drafted myself (sorry, young latvian bros)

  35. Personally – it should stay as is, voluntary only.
    I do not value nor respect nor willing to serve our government for their bullshit. With that amount of taxes that we pay and their constant politicaly driven useless and questionable reforms and laws – f that, not going to lift a finger for them.

    Until they change laws and punishments for their own personal actions and incompetence – any military conscription/service is out of question.

  37. In general, I support this. With the geopolitical situation we are in, we have to show effort in keeping up our defense. Sure, we are in NATO, but if we only freeload on NATO presence, its going to quickly create rifts within NATO, as other countries would be less willing to support us, if we don’t show much incentive to defend ourselves.

    Does it suck that we are in position like this? Yes. However that is the position we are in nevertheless.

    Also, take example of Finland, it is not that much larger in terms of population, yet they have a formidable army.

    For me the only issue is how the conscription is going to be implemented. I already studied, and got a job with significant responsibilities, and have to be on call anytime something goes wrong, I would like to do my civil duty but I am already on a path taken before conscription. Had I had conscription from end of highschool I would have done it and moved forward with career. As I understand, the National Guard is what can be joined with work, but from searching on the web I still don’t understand what are the speciffics of what are my duties and how flexible the schedule is.

  38. Kāpēc LGBT jāiet mirt par valsti, kurā jau 30 gadus neskaitās pilnvērtīgi pilsoņi? Šis jau ir fašisms

  39. I’m against mandatory military service, for multiple reasons.

    It’s immoral to make people serve in the military and go to war without their consent.

    It’s less effective than investing in a better professional army.

    It has costs beyond what it takes to house and pay conscripts, there’s opportunity cost in making people spend a year in the military, as they could spend that time working and paying taxes instead.

    Also, it’s 2022 and the law is gender discriminatory.

    ​

    Won’t affect me personally, but if I was young enough to be affected, I’d start making plans to leave this country.

  40. This is good. I’d rather die fighting than live under Russian rule. Seeing these comments most of you would rather live under Putin. Go ahead, borders are open.

  45. I have another idea for a compulsory solution to a national problem. Let’s have all childless women of childbearing age serve. Don’t want to participate in making new taxpayers, well we’re low on grunts, so…

  46. I will just say that this subreddit due to demographics & general political leaning will be pretty one sided. I would wait wait for official polls for more broader stats if it’s something you are looking for.

  47. I will be brutally honest. In my personal opinion, now, more than ever people will go abroad. More than ever people would denounce their citizenship. I’m saddened by this.
    Would I be OK to serve in army? Yes. I’d love to learn the knowledge to survive and defend my people.

Leave a Reply