Of course not. They’ve seen what is possible in the US so they have high hopes they can pull off something similar. Watch the coming framing, subtle at first, blown to first degree murder for abortion later.
Do we have a bill of rights or is it just whatever the Tories say goes.
Sexist and classist behaviour too, even if his intention was humour it was badly ill thought out for a person of his position at the dispatch box.
>Boris Johnson has claimed that Vladimir Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he was a woman and believes that the war is a “perfect example of toxic masculinity”.
>
>In an interview with German media following the G7 summit in Schloss Elmau, the prime minister cited the Russian president’s gender as a contributory factor to the conflict.
>
>Johnson told broadcaster ZDF: “If Putin was a woman, which he obviously isn’t, if he were, I really don’t think he would have embarked on a crazy, macho war of invasion and violence in the way that he has.
>
>“If you want a perfect example of toxic masculinity, it’s what he is doing in Ukraine.”…
>
>([*Boris Johnson: Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he were a woman*](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/29/boris-johnson-claims-putin-would-not-have-invaded-ukraine-if-he-was-a-woman))
See, I said they would try this over here, and someone tried telling me it would never happen.
Yes it fucking will.
Every day we just get closer to being a smaller, sadder copy of the US.
Goverments shouldn’t be writing bills of rights in the first place.
Especially not this one.
They have miked Russia for cash, now they are after the right wing US god-bothering loonies cash.
”give women the fundamental right to an abortion”
When a Tory says you don’t need something, you absolutely need it.
Well, young people aren’t generating tax payers as often as they should, stopping abortions should, in theory, get that show back on the road. /s
The people who are saying that it’s already settled law here in the UK are ignoring the fact that it was already considered to be settled law in the US.
When Donald Trump won in 2016, the people who worried that this would mean an attack on abortion rights and other rights were accused of being hysterical. But the judges he appointed have just overturned the supposed “settled law”.
I don’t think things are anywhere near as bad over here as they are in the States, but the Tories and the right wing media are doing everything they can to import America’s culture wars over here.
Recently in Parliament, Johnson was asked about the cost of living and what his Government were going to do about the economic malaise that we’re being thrown into and he replied with a load of US-style culture-war baiting nonsense about trans women not being women. I absolutely think that he and his successors in the Conservative Party will wage whichever Republican culture war they think would be a distraction and a wedge issue!
He’s absolutely right. It’s written into law already?
The Bill of Rights is just going to be a couple of lines about the right to own property and shit on poor people isn’t it?
Lots of people absolutely frothing themselves into an outrage over this ignoring that literally this government were the ones to overturn NI’s archaic abortion laws and legalise it there when direct rule returned. Hardly the actions of people waiting for an excuse to ban it.
Abortion laws are also matters of conscience and so not done along party lines. Parliament is overwhelmingly pro-abortion rights and it is difficult to see how that could even change.
The Tories are many things but they are not anti-abortion and it is just not an issue, there’s plenty of not completely made up things to get angry with them about. This is just a complete non issue.
Why does UK create new crisis out of every shit happening in USA? You don’t have to follow them everytime.
Isn’t the whole point of a bill of rights to ensure that things _stay_ settled law?
Though I hate what the tories are trying to do, and believe that staying within the ECHR is the right course of action, I feel it’s important to point something out here.
We are not in the same situation as the US. Not only do we not have a constitutional framework that is in any way similar, we also do not have courts that can change the laws aside from in very narrow circumstances, most commonly when the law that the government has introduced violates our ECHR obligations. Even then they just say that the law needs changing, they can’t actually change it.
Although it would be a nice symbolic move after what’s happening in America, including the right to abortion within the new bill of rights (which we don’t need, we’ve got the ECHR but whatever) wouldn’t actually achieve anything or make abortion better protected. The new bill of rights is not a constitution and it is very much settled law that one parliament cannot bind the actions of a future one. If abortion was contained within the bill of rights, it would simply duplicate existing law; it would be just as easy, with a simple majority, for an anti-abortion government to get a ban through parliament. The anti-abortion bill would just have to include another clause about removing the relevant section from the bill of rights.
As I said it would be a symbolic move, and that’s perfectly valid, however it wouldn’t afford the right to an abortion any further protection. This is the problem with a bill of rights that comes from the UK, and the problem with the British system in general: a future parliament can just totally overrule it.
Anything the Government of today say’s doesn’t need to be done absolutely HAS to be done !!!
Dominic Raab won’t be an MP after the next election.
The Lib Dems are circling around him like sharks, waiting for the ice to break.
It obviously should be, they just don’t want to puss their voter base off, I can’t see it ever being up for debate but, that would be in a sane world.
If it’s already settled then what’s the harm in popping it the bill, eh? Just in case, I don’t know, taking a wild stab in the dark some chinless, double-barrelled, horsey, home-counties safe blue seat wielding cunt with a messiah complex tries to *un*-settle it in the near future.
We don’t need a “bill of rights” we have the perfectly serviceable “Human Rights Act” that Boris and friends are desperate to scrap and replace.
Fake UK, home of the Normans for a thousand years.
This bill of rights crap scares the life out of me. Its a blatant power grab to erode our rights.
The Bill of Rights is an unenforceable nonsense anyway. Absolutely the last place you want anything which matters to you.
I was in law enforcement for decades and I can tell you one thing about the law and its enforcement… If it isn’t written down, it does not exist… no right exists without recognition, definition, and protection/enforcement.
Raab is a lying pussy.
The second those cunts so much as look at reducing abortion rights, I’m getting fucking sterilised.
Has anyone who says the UK is pro-choice and it will never happen here a) had an abortion and then b) tried telling people about it? Because people aren’t as open and accepting about it as you might think.
You cannot imagine the Deputy Prime Minister would want to suggest that something a former mistress of the Prime Minister underwent should become illegal.
Everything we value needs to be enshrined in law or Tories will destroy it. If they tell you it isn’t needed to be enshrined that’s because they want to undermine it. They have proven this time and time again.
We have parliamentary supremacy (I.e no executive head of government able to do things directly). We don’t have appointed for life political judges able to over rule parliament. Abortion is outside of politics. Political parties no more have abortion policies then they have policies on the weather.
Says the party that is threatening to leave the European convention of human rights…
We also had the right to protest.
Remember that.
I gonna assume it def. does
We don’t need a Bill of Rights, we have European Court of Human Rights protecting us from Raab and his machinations
Gotta make sure the future has plenty worker bees that never had willing or capable parents. Back to the 19th century we go so the rich can stay rich.
If its not a problem and already settled then why not put it in the bill of rights?
unless the whole point of the bill of rights is to make it look like people have rights while it actually removes all of our rights.
Notice how he also says during the whole thing that its based on parliament voting it, and he doesnt see that changing anytime soon. So he is admitting that it;s not settled law and that in fact they could change it whenever they want.
Can we just remember Raab doesn’t believe in human rights
Meanwhile France is adding it to their written constitution.
This reminds me of that reddit adage: “If the girl says you don’t need to bother with a condom, then you definitely need the condom!”
It does. The Bill of Rights needs to comprehensively cover *every single right* that people want. Because if it is not explicitly stated that you have a right to X then you will never have a right to X. That is the way a Bill of Rights Works. That is the exact argument the Tories have used to say “we need a Bill of Rights”.
This is Raab negotiating about what rights he wants people to have. That is not a Bill of Rights but a Bill of Privileges.
There is no “settled in law” argument because you are talking about rights in legislation not law. Roe v. Wade was “settled in law” and now it is not. Because lawa are subject to precedent while legislation gives forth the principls by which laws are operated. Perhaps they need a better Attorney General or something.
45 comments
Yes it bloody well does.
In before our own right wingers say “It’s already settled law”
Edit: commented, then read the piece – *first fucking line*:
>Deputy PM says matter is ‘settled in UK law’ and he would not want Britain to be in same situation as US
Fuck this country and the bullshit they’re pulling, no wonder Scotland wants independence and Sinn Fein are the biggest party in NI…
Edit: PSA – the mods will remove your comment if you call someone a buckeejit for their stark denial of reality, just so ya know..
>Guardian: [Dominic Raab suggests government does not see need to include right to abortion in bill of rights – UK politics live](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jun/29/ben-wallace-boris-johnson-nato-defence-conservatives-angela-rayner-dominic-raab-pmqs-uk-politics-latest-live?page=with:block-62bc32578f08918da77e7c6f&filterKeyEvents=false)
–
>12:01:
>
>[Dominic Raab starts by explaining…](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jun/29/ben-wallace-boris-johnson-nato-defence-conservatives-angela-rayner-dominic-raab-pmqs-uk-politics-latest-live?page=with:block-62bc30d98f0881dd6a4ff077#block-62bc30d98f0881dd6a4ff077)
–
Hard not to think they are being nudged down the path of the right-wing led wedge-issue-anti-abortion-crusade in the states
of which:
>[Facebook Removing Posts About Mailing Abortion Pills—But Not Guns](https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/06/28/facebook-removing-posts-about-mailing-abortion-pills-not-guns)
Of course not. They’ve seen what is possible in the US so they have high hopes they can pull off something similar. Watch the coming framing, subtle at first, blown to first degree murder for abortion later.
Do we have a bill of rights or is it just whatever the Tories say goes.
Sexist and classist behaviour too, even if his intention was humour it was badly ill thought out for a person of his position at the dispatch box.
>ES: [‘I feel soiled’ says MP who witnessed Dominic Raab winking at Angela Rayner](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/dominic-raab-rmt-labour-party-commons-labour-b1009153.html)
>
>The Deputy PM winked while questioning the deputy Labour leader on her stance on the RMT rail strikes.
–
Especially when there are [so many allegations of abuse against MPs](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/18/list-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations-made-against-mps) that are ongoing.
And you also have the [imbecile](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article21077892.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200d/0_JS201040314.jpg)’s earlier sexist blunder:
>Boris Johnson has claimed that Vladimir Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he was a woman and believes that the war is a “perfect example of toxic masculinity”.
>
>In an interview with German media following the G7 summit in Schloss Elmau, the prime minister cited the Russian president’s gender as a contributory factor to the conflict.
>
>Johnson told broadcaster ZDF: “If Putin was a woman, which he obviously isn’t, if he were, I really don’t think he would have embarked on a crazy, macho war of invasion and violence in the way that he has.
>
>“If you want a perfect example of toxic masculinity, it’s what he is doing in Ukraine.”…
>
>([*Boris Johnson: Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he were a woman*](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/29/boris-johnson-claims-putin-would-not-have-invaded-ukraine-if-he-was-a-woman))
See, I said they would try this over here, and someone tried telling me it would never happen.
Yes it fucking will.
Every day we just get closer to being a smaller, sadder copy of the US.
Goverments shouldn’t be writing bills of rights in the first place.
Especially not this one.
They have miked Russia for cash, now they are after the right wing US god-bothering loonies cash.
”give women the fundamental right to an abortion”
When a Tory says you don’t need something, you absolutely need it.
Well, young people aren’t generating tax payers as often as they should, stopping abortions should, in theory, get that show back on the road. /s
The people who are saying that it’s already settled law here in the UK are ignoring the fact that it was already considered to be settled law in the US.
When Donald Trump won in 2016, the people who worried that this would mean an attack on abortion rights and other rights were accused of being hysterical. But the judges he appointed have just overturned the supposed “settled law”.
I don’t think things are anywhere near as bad over here as they are in the States, but the Tories and the right wing media are doing everything they can to import America’s culture wars over here.
Recently in Parliament, Johnson was asked about the cost of living and what his Government were going to do about the economic malaise that we’re being thrown into and he replied with a load of US-style culture-war baiting nonsense about trans women not being women. I absolutely think that he and his successors in the Conservative Party will wage whichever Republican culture war they think would be a distraction and a wedge issue!
He’s absolutely right. It’s written into law already?
The Bill of Rights is just going to be a couple of lines about the right to own property and shit on poor people isn’t it?
Lots of people absolutely frothing themselves into an outrage over this ignoring that literally this government were the ones to overturn NI’s archaic abortion laws and legalise it there when direct rule returned. Hardly the actions of people waiting for an excuse to ban it.
Abortion laws are also matters of conscience and so not done along party lines. Parliament is overwhelmingly pro-abortion rights and it is difficult to see how that could even change.
The Tories are many things but they are not anti-abortion and it is just not an issue, there’s plenty of not completely made up things to get angry with them about. This is just a complete non issue.
Why does UK create new crisis out of every shit happening in USA? You don’t have to follow them everytime.
Isn’t the whole point of a bill of rights to ensure that things _stay_ settled law?
Though I hate what the tories are trying to do, and believe that staying within the ECHR is the right course of action, I feel it’s important to point something out here.
We are not in the same situation as the US. Not only do we not have a constitutional framework that is in any way similar, we also do not have courts that can change the laws aside from in very narrow circumstances, most commonly when the law that the government has introduced violates our ECHR obligations. Even then they just say that the law needs changing, they can’t actually change it.
Although it would be a nice symbolic move after what’s happening in America, including the right to abortion within the new bill of rights (which we don’t need, we’ve got the ECHR but whatever) wouldn’t actually achieve anything or make abortion better protected. The new bill of rights is not a constitution and it is very much settled law that one parliament cannot bind the actions of a future one. If abortion was contained within the bill of rights, it would simply duplicate existing law; it would be just as easy, with a simple majority, for an anti-abortion government to get a ban through parliament. The anti-abortion bill would just have to include another clause about removing the relevant section from the bill of rights.
As I said it would be a symbolic move, and that’s perfectly valid, however it wouldn’t afford the right to an abortion any further protection. This is the problem with a bill of rights that comes from the UK, and the problem with the British system in general: a future parliament can just totally overrule it.
Anything the Government of today say’s doesn’t need to be done absolutely HAS to be done !!!
Dominic Raab won’t be an MP after the next election.
The Lib Dems are circling around him like sharks, waiting for the ice to break.
It obviously should be, they just don’t want to puss their voter base off, I can’t see it ever being up for debate but, that would be in a sane world.
If it’s already settled then what’s the harm in popping it the bill, eh? Just in case, I don’t know, taking a wild stab in the dark some chinless, double-barrelled, horsey, home-counties safe blue seat wielding cunt with a messiah complex tries to *un*-settle it in the near future.
We don’t need a “bill of rights” we have the perfectly serviceable “Human Rights Act” that Boris and friends are desperate to scrap and replace.
Fake UK, home of the Normans for a thousand years.
This bill of rights crap scares the life out of me. Its a blatant power grab to erode our rights.
The Bill of Rights is an unenforceable nonsense anyway. Absolutely the last place you want anything which matters to you.
I was in law enforcement for decades and I can tell you one thing about the law and its enforcement… If it isn’t written down, it does not exist… no right exists without recognition, definition, and protection/enforcement.
Raab is a lying pussy.
The second those cunts so much as look at reducing abortion rights, I’m getting fucking sterilised.
Has anyone who says the UK is pro-choice and it will never happen here a) had an abortion and then b) tried telling people about it? Because people aren’t as open and accepting about it as you might think.
You cannot imagine the Deputy Prime Minister would want to suggest that something a former mistress of the Prime Minister underwent should become illegal.
Everything we value needs to be enshrined in law or Tories will destroy it. If they tell you it isn’t needed to be enshrined that’s because they want to undermine it. They have proven this time and time again.
We have parliamentary supremacy (I.e no executive head of government able to do things directly). We don’t have appointed for life political judges able to over rule parliament. Abortion is outside of politics. Political parties no more have abortion policies then they have policies on the weather.
Says the party that is threatening to leave the European convention of human rights…
We also had the right to protest.
Remember that.
I gonna assume it def. does
We don’t need a Bill of Rights, we have European Court of Human Rights protecting us from Raab and his machinations
Gotta make sure the future has plenty worker bees that never had willing or capable parents. Back to the 19th century we go so the rich can stay rich.
If its not a problem and already settled then why not put it in the bill of rights?
unless the whole point of the bill of rights is to make it look like people have rights while it actually removes all of our rights.
Notice how he also says during the whole thing that its based on parliament voting it, and he doesnt see that changing anytime soon. So he is admitting that it;s not settled law and that in fact they could change it whenever they want.
Can we just remember Raab doesn’t believe in human rights
Meanwhile France is adding it to their written constitution.
This reminds me of that reddit adage: “If the girl says you don’t need to bother with a condom, then you definitely need the condom!”
It does. The Bill of Rights needs to comprehensively cover *every single right* that people want. Because if it is not explicitly stated that you have a right to X then you will never have a right to X. That is the way a Bill of Rights Works. That is the exact argument the Tories have used to say “we need a Bill of Rights”.
This is Raab negotiating about what rights he wants people to have. That is not a Bill of Rights but a Bill of Privileges.
There is no “settled in law” argument because you are talking about rights in legislation not law. Roe v. Wade was “settled in law” and now it is not. Because lawa are subject to precedent while legislation gives forth the principls by which laws are operated. Perhaps they need a better Attorney General or something.