So Scotland gets a second once in a lifetime vote but the rest of the UK does not get a say on the final Brexit deal?
Scotland should include all the counties in the UK and ask them if they want to become part of Scotland and give Westminster the finger.
Perhaps England can gain independence from Westminster whilst we’re at it.
Schrödinger’s Scotland where we are both a monumental drain on UK resources, a nation of scroungers and hated over the border
But also a loved member of the UK so please don’t leave (or leave your oil at the door please, just in case)
As a person born in England but with a large Scottish family, it pains me to see this.
One side of me wants Scotland to be independant and stand proud like any other country, working in union with the others to form a stronger bond than before, but another side of me sees how this weakens us overall right now. Sure we’ll recover, on both sides of the wall, but is this really the right time to split with everything going on in Europe? Idk it scares me a little. Feels like war is coming.
The part of me that likes to think the impossible would like to see all the UK reunited with equal leadership of 4 elected PMs. But that’s just a wild dream of course ;-;
Cool. So the UK government will say it’s not binding, remaining in the Union didn’t get proper representation and it’s not an accurate reflection of Scottish intention and do nothing.
Sounds like a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere
Yeah dream on. I love how the SNP use all the exact same arguments brexiteers used for leaving the EU which the SNP rightly called out as bollocks, but they then reuse the same arguments for independence. It’s a joke.
And I also hate the argument that Scotland gets a different government than the one they voted for. Like…what? You’re part of a country, you don’t get to secede just because the rest of the nation voted for someone else. Else when is the south seceding from the US, or when is Brighton becoming independent as they voted for the green party but get cons every time…
We’re stronger together.
I feel like if Westminster isn’t on board people will just boycott it and then it’s meaningless.
Also the hard border issue is pretty huge, surely? Last time around it was dismissed as absurd scare-mongering, but this time it’s literally real
I don’t blame them at this point. Why would they want to be affiliated with us?
If the Scots want independence because they voted to remain in the EU but were made to leave regardless (which I think is rather reasonable), then the parts of Scotland that vote to remain in the UK should get to. It’s only fair, if they genuinely believe areas shouldn’t be forced to exit a union because other areas voted to, even if they voted against. Especially in areas like the Shetlands that are distant from the radically different urban areas, like they claim to be distant from London. You wouldn’t want to by hypocrites now, would you? I’m sure this won’t happen though, because self determination only matters when it’s their cause evidently. And even if it did, I’m sure they’d demand a clause for referendums each year until they finally got the results they wanted. No more referendums after that though, they’ve won now so who cares.
This is the second time she’s done this in a month. At what point will people start to see it for the BS it is?
she’s been setting out this supposed plan every year she’s been in power. Will it ever happen? or is she just using this empty promise to get votes?
I don’t know how anyone can not see this as Brexit but worse in every way. If a vote passes get ready for potentially a decade of non-stop talks, negotiations, re-referendums etc. All of that to at the end leave the UK as a stagnating former great power, with a weak Scotland becoming a backwater of the EU (if they can even join)
A Scexit will dominate politics for years, meaning no time for Westminster to actually grow and change. We’ll be left behind, and during this period of global high tension that is a terrible thought
I love how most of the comments are English people, who have no idea what it’s like to live here. How would you feel having the drug death capital of Europe, but anything you want to do about it is blocked by another government? Decriminalisation, clean injection rooms and heroin lead treatment centers. Oops! BoJo said that would encourage drug taking. Funny that, considering his office bathrooms tested strongly for cocaine.
Imagine the vast majority of your country voting remain, only to be forced to leave anyway. What unity this union gives us!
Imagine a historically left leaning government having their overall budgets decided by tories.
Imagine being forced to keep nuclear weapons in your most populated city, even though the people are against it, and you have no power over if they’re used.
I think it’s too soon for a referendum, and it’ll probably fail spectacularly, but try to put yourselves in our shoes.
Everyone in the comments hating on Scotland for wanting to escape the shit show that is the UK.
Honestly, from the outside, it’s about time, considering how they voted on Brexit.
Scottish independence would be disastrous for all involved, in my opinion.
Dealing with threats like Russia, China, energy security, food security, inflation will all become exponentially more difficult for both Scotland and the remaining constituent members of the UK.
Right now we have a somewhat decent ability to trade globally, and manage our own internal (UK) affairs – it’s a delicately balanced but functioning structure.
Brexit was a disaster, can you imagine how bad Scottish independence would be for both Scotland and the UK at one of the most critical moments in modern history. We will all be poorer, with less gravitas internationally – and bogged down with another legal and constitutional nightmare for years to come.
Plus (speaking as an Englishman) I do feel some kinship with Scotland, my ancestors are Scottish. Independence in my view serves to alienate us from each other and build barriers where they are simply not required, or wanted (from my point of view – I hope that is shared with others).
I imagine Scottish nationalists will disagree with everything above!
You know what? I really, really, *really* don’t want Scotland to leave, but we have exactly fuck-all moral right to deny them a referendum.
They wanted a referendum, and the UK government finally grudgingly agreed.
After ignoring Scotland for generations, the entire UK political apparatus raced north of the border and started promising it the earth, drowning it in high-minded rhetoric about how devolved sovereignty isn’t all that important and it’s better to be part of a strong, vital, cohesive and influential political union than to be a weak outsider trying to go it alone as it frantically ties off all the bleeding stumps of a previous deeply integrated union.
The very minute they voted to remain the entire UK political establishment sauntered back south of the border and has barely given Scotland a single thought since.
At the same time, we’ve (by which I mean mostly England and Wales) hypocritically voted to chase illusory “sovereignty” by leaving the EU, denying rights and privileges to everyone in Scotland (as well as the rest of the UK).
We’ve turned a country that was a respected and influential leader in the world into an isolated near-pariah, that can’t even be trusted to abide by its own signed treaties and unrepentantly breaks international law with barely a thought.
We’ve removed rights from everyone, fucked the economy, screwed up logistics across almost every major industry, caused intractable legal complications, caused businesses to fail, fucked up our Covid response leading to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, disproportionately among the old and vulnerable, and elected a slew of incompetent, disingenuous, nakedly corrupt and autocratic leaders who treat the population with utter disdain, and we show *no sign of learning the lesson and stopping any time soon*.
Scotland may or may not be better off staying in the UK, and I want Scotland to stay, but what possible moral right do we have to force them to stay chained to a union so utterly hell-bent on national self-harm?
A few of our English friends here need to look up the term neo-colonialism. If you truly believe Scotland has no fundamental right to independence, then the UK is at its core no different to the Soviet Union.
A ‘union of equals’ except we can do whatever we like to you and you can’t leave.
Absolutely charming folks.
Wonder if it’ll pass this time, polls have consistently shown that the public would vote to stay but its close enough that a solid campaign could swing it the other way. Regardless, this is probably the last chance for independence in the foreseeable future, the stars have aligned in this case (Scotland wanting to remain in the EU, UK economic issues, Boris being widely hated).
This would be far worse than Brexit. They’ve not considered all the issues, similar to Brexit. It’s baffling. But hey, if the Scots vote for it, then that’s on them. I just don’t believe a majority want it, even with Brexit.
Comments:
“Dur Scotland can’t leave, they already had their chance!”
“If *English area* can’t leave, then Scotland can’t leave! It’s not fair they have less population!”
“Bleh Scotland just blames us English for their problems when It’s not our fault, It’s Westministers fault we vote keep voting tory!”
“Scotlands not a country, It’s a region!”
It’s any wonder any Scot would want to stay reading all this gatekeeping/gaslighting/anti-democratic pish!
23 comments
So Scotland gets a second once in a lifetime vote but the rest of the UK does not get a say on the final Brexit deal?
Scotland should include all the counties in the UK and ask them if they want to become part of Scotland and give Westminster the finger.
Perhaps England can gain independence from Westminster whilst we’re at it.
Schrödinger’s Scotland where we are both a monumental drain on UK resources, a nation of scroungers and hated over the border
But also a loved member of the UK so please don’t leave (or leave your oil at the door please, just in case)
As a person born in England but with a large Scottish family, it pains me to see this.
One side of me wants Scotland to be independant and stand proud like any other country, working in union with the others to form a stronger bond than before, but another side of me sees how this weakens us overall right now. Sure we’ll recover, on both sides of the wall, but is this really the right time to split with everything going on in Europe? Idk it scares me a little. Feels like war is coming.
The part of me that likes to think the impossible would like to see all the UK reunited with equal leadership of 4 elected PMs. But that’s just a wild dream of course ;-;
Cool. So the UK government will say it’s not binding, remaining in the Union didn’t get proper representation and it’s not an accurate reflection of Scottish intention and do nothing.
Sounds like a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere
Yeah dream on. I love how the SNP use all the exact same arguments brexiteers used for leaving the EU which the SNP rightly called out as bollocks, but they then reuse the same arguments for independence. It’s a joke.
And I also hate the argument that Scotland gets a different government than the one they voted for. Like…what? You’re part of a country, you don’t get to secede just because the rest of the nation voted for someone else. Else when is the south seceding from the US, or when is Brighton becoming independent as they voted for the green party but get cons every time…
We’re stronger together.
I feel like if Westminster isn’t on board people will just boycott it and then it’s meaningless.
Also the hard border issue is pretty huge, surely? Last time around it was dismissed as absurd scare-mongering, but this time it’s literally real
I don’t blame them at this point. Why would they want to be affiliated with us?
If the Scots want independence because they voted to remain in the EU but were made to leave regardless (which I think is rather reasonable), then the parts of Scotland that vote to remain in the UK should get to. It’s only fair, if they genuinely believe areas shouldn’t be forced to exit a union because other areas voted to, even if they voted against. Especially in areas like the Shetlands that are distant from the radically different urban areas, like they claim to be distant from London. You wouldn’t want to by hypocrites now, would you? I’m sure this won’t happen though, because self determination only matters when it’s their cause evidently. And even if it did, I’m sure they’d demand a clause for referendums each year until they finally got the results they wanted. No more referendums after that though, they’ve won now so who cares.
This is the second time she’s done this in a month. At what point will people start to see it for the BS it is?
she’s been setting out this supposed plan every year she’s been in power. Will it ever happen? or is she just using this empty promise to get votes?
I don’t know how anyone can not see this as Brexit but worse in every way. If a vote passes get ready for potentially a decade of non-stop talks, negotiations, re-referendums etc. All of that to at the end leave the UK as a stagnating former great power, with a weak Scotland becoming a backwater of the EU (if they can even join)
A Scexit will dominate politics for years, meaning no time for Westminster to actually grow and change. We’ll be left behind, and during this period of global high tension that is a terrible thought
I love how most of the comments are English people, who have no idea what it’s like to live here. How would you feel having the drug death capital of Europe, but anything you want to do about it is blocked by another government? Decriminalisation, clean injection rooms and heroin lead treatment centers. Oops! BoJo said that would encourage drug taking. Funny that, considering his office bathrooms tested strongly for cocaine.
Imagine the vast majority of your country voting remain, only to be forced to leave anyway. What unity this union gives us!
Imagine a historically left leaning government having their overall budgets decided by tories.
Imagine being forced to keep nuclear weapons in your most populated city, even though the people are against it, and you have no power over if they’re used.
I think it’s too soon for a referendum, and it’ll probably fail spectacularly, but try to put yourselves in our shoes.
Everyone in the comments hating on Scotland for wanting to escape the shit show that is the UK.
Honestly, from the outside, it’s about time, considering how they voted on Brexit.
Scottish independence would be disastrous for all involved, in my opinion.
Dealing with threats like Russia, China, energy security, food security, inflation will all become exponentially more difficult for both Scotland and the remaining constituent members of the UK.
Right now we have a somewhat decent ability to trade globally, and manage our own internal (UK) affairs – it’s a delicately balanced but functioning structure.
Brexit was a disaster, can you imagine how bad Scottish independence would be for both Scotland and the UK at one of the most critical moments in modern history. We will all be poorer, with less gravitas internationally – and bogged down with another legal and constitutional nightmare for years to come.
Plus (speaking as an Englishman) I do feel some kinship with Scotland, my ancestors are Scottish. Independence in my view serves to alienate us from each other and build barriers where they are simply not required, or wanted (from my point of view – I hope that is shared with others).
I imagine Scottish nationalists will disagree with everything above!
You know what? I really, really, *really* don’t want Scotland to leave, but we have exactly fuck-all moral right to deny them a referendum.
They wanted a referendum, and the UK government finally grudgingly agreed.
After ignoring Scotland for generations, the entire UK political apparatus raced north of the border and started promising it the earth, drowning it in high-minded rhetoric about how devolved sovereignty isn’t all that important and it’s better to be part of a strong, vital, cohesive and influential political union than to be a weak outsider trying to go it alone as it frantically ties off all the bleeding stumps of a previous deeply integrated union.
The very minute they voted to remain the entire UK political establishment sauntered back south of the border and has barely given Scotland a single thought since.
At the same time, we’ve (by which I mean mostly England and Wales) hypocritically voted to chase illusory “sovereignty” by leaving the EU, denying rights and privileges to everyone in Scotland (as well as the rest of the UK).
We’ve turned a country that was a respected and influential leader in the world into an isolated near-pariah, that can’t even be trusted to abide by its own signed treaties and unrepentantly breaks international law with barely a thought.
We’ve removed rights from everyone, fucked the economy, screwed up logistics across almost every major industry, caused intractable legal complications, caused businesses to fail, fucked up our Covid response leading to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, disproportionately among the old and vulnerable, and elected a slew of incompetent, disingenuous, nakedly corrupt and autocratic leaders who treat the population with utter disdain, and we show *no sign of learning the lesson and stopping any time soon*.
Scotland may or may not be better off staying in the UK, and I want Scotland to stay, but what possible moral right do we have to force them to stay chained to a union so utterly hell-bent on national self-harm?
A few of our English friends here need to look up the term neo-colonialism. If you truly believe Scotland has no fundamental right to independence, then the UK is at its core no different to the Soviet Union.
A ‘union of equals’ except we can do whatever we like to you and you can’t leave.
Absolutely charming folks.
Wonder if it’ll pass this time, polls have consistently shown that the public would vote to stay but its close enough that a solid campaign could swing it the other way. Regardless, this is probably the last chance for independence in the foreseeable future, the stars have aligned in this case (Scotland wanting to remain in the EU, UK economic issues, Boris being widely hated).
This would be far worse than Brexit. They’ve not considered all the issues, similar to Brexit. It’s baffling. But hey, if the Scots vote for it, then that’s on them. I just don’t believe a majority want it, even with Brexit.
Comments:
“Dur Scotland can’t leave, they already had their chance!”
“If *English area* can’t leave, then Scotland can’t leave! It’s not fair they have less population!”
“Bleh Scotland just blames us English for their problems when It’s not our fault, It’s Westministers fault we vote keep voting tory!”
“Scotlands not a country, It’s a region!”
It’s any wonder any Scot would want to stay reading all this gatekeeping/gaslighting/anti-democratic pish!
We love Scotland my hairy arsehole.