Nadine Dorries’ call for the time limit for abortions to be reduced by four weeks has provoked outrage among health care professionals.
The culture secretary argued the legal cut-off point for pregnancy terminations in the UK – which is 24 weeks – should be reduced by a month.
But the Tory MP for Mid Bedfordshire, who is also the patient safety minister, told Times Radio she is pro-choice – as well as also calling for the rule which stipulates two doctors need to consent to an abortion must be axed.
Katherine O’Brien, of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s leading abortion provider, told The Independent Ms Dorries’ calls to curb the abortion time limit were “abhorrent”.
She said: “It was absolutely extraordinary at a moment of huge political crisis, a cabinet member had chosen this as an opportunity to attack abortion rights.
“When the government collapses around her, she decides to attack abortion rights. It is also extraordinary as just last week Dominic Raab said abortion was a settled issue in this country yet government members in the highest offices are looking to restrict abortion.”
Ms O’Brien noted women who seek abortions after the 20-week cut-off point are “often in the most incredibly difficult of circumstances”.
She added: “They may have had a diagnosis of foetal anomaly with a very much wanted pregnancy or they may be young girls who haven’t had regular periods so don’t realise that they are pregnant.”
Ms O’Brien argued Ms Dorries’ position on the abortion time limit demonstrates “a complete lack of understanding for the reasons people have abortions post 20 weeks”.
“Nobody wants to have an abortion,” she added. “Let alone a late-term abortion that involves surgery. It is a difficult procedure. It is not something anyone wants to go through.”
Ms Dorries has repeatedly called for the time limit for abortions to be curtailed from 24 weeks down to 20 and sought to overhaul legislation to relinquish abortion providers’ part in counselling women.
Louise McCudden, of MSI Reproductive Choices UK, another leading abortion provider, said: “There is no clinical justification or evidence base for reducing the abortion time limit, and this would contradict guidance from the World Health Organisation.
“The vast majority of abortions happen under 10 weeks. The extremely rare cases that do take place over 20 weeks are usually complex and sensitive cases, such as fatal foetal abnormality or young girls who have been raped or taken a longer time to realise they were pregnant.
“Criminalising women and health providers in these situations benefits no one. Rather than restricting time limits, we should be looking at ways to better protect women and girls against our outdated abortion laws.”
A study, carried out by YouGov and MSI Reproductive Choices UK, previously found nine in 10 UK adults think women should be able to access abortion services in Britain and specifically identify as being “pro-choice”.
Commenting on Ms Dorries’ comments, Pam Lowe, a sociologist who specialises in anti-abortion activism in the UK, said: “The anti-abortion movement often focuses on issues such as reducing the time limit as a step-by-step strategy to restrict abortion more generally.”
Dr Lowe, a senior lecturer in sociology and policy at Aston University, argued this form of “tactic was successfully used by” anti-abortion groups in many states in America.
She added: “Despite what some believe, abortions later in pregnancy are not feckless decisions by irresponsible women, but usually due to circumstances outside of their control, such as a complication in pregnancy or difficulties in accessing abortion services earlier.”
While Dani Anderson, of the Abortion Support Network, insisted that “no medical basis” exists for an amendment to the legal limit for having an abortion.
“Reducing the limit will cause serious risk to women’s lives,” she added. “Second-trimester abortions are a vital part of medical care and what we need now is the decriminalisation of abortion, rather than following in America’s footsteps and restricting access even further.”
In the UK, abortions are allowed up to 23 weeks and six days of pregnancy but can be performed later if continuing with the pregnancy poses a significant risk to the life of the woman or there are serious foetal abnormalities.
Abortions are still deemed a criminal act in England, Scotland and Wales under the 1967 Abortion Act. If any medical professional delivers an abortion out of the terms of the act, they are at risk of facing criminal punishment.
Legislation passed in 1861 means any woman who ends a pregnancy without getting legal permission from two doctors, who must agree continuing with it would be risky for the woman’s physical or mental health, can face up to life imprisonment. But abortion providers, charities, medical bodies, and MPs have spent years demanding abortion is decriminalised in the UK.
The criticism levied at Ms Dorries comes after the US Supreme Court dismantled Roe v Wade – the landmark decision that legalised abortion nationwide in 1973 – at the end of last month.
24 weeks is a high limit by European standards…
Pretty much sums it up:
> Katherine O’Brien, of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s leading abortion provider, told The Independent Ms Dorries’ calls to curb the abortion time limit were “abhorrent”.
> She said: “It was absolutely extraordinary at a moment of huge political crisis, a cabinet member had chosen this as an opportunity to attack abortion rights.
> “When the government collapses around her, she decides to attack abortion rights. It is also extraordinary as just last week Dominic Raab said abortion was a settled issue in this country yet government members in the highest offices are looking to restrict abortion.”
And so it begins. First they reduce it, then they ban it, next to go is gay marriage, then contraception, then womens right to vote. Conservative’s – forward to the 1800’s
Don’t mean to be dismissive, but she’s about to be thrown to the backbenches so hard she might break them. What she says is utterly irrelevant at this point.
I’m a scouser (where she’s from..sigh) and I’m absolutely disgusted we have this piece of shit, who was actually a nurse growing up (so, you would think, she would you know, care about others) and how she’s now a mega termangant, level 1 she devil trout from the fucking depths of the antarctica. Conclusion =An awful, horrible and thick waste of space.
These right wingnut christian taliban have to go everywhere! I didn’t know you were dealing with these control freaks too.
This witch has done this before. She needs to have her head examined.
Johnson: “I‘ll be a caretaker prime minister only. So no major policy changes from now on.”
Tick, tick, tick …
Dorries: “Right. Let’s reduce access to abortions, for a start.”
This woman is definitely on the side of outright evil tory rather than just idiotic ignorant bellend tory.
What’s the bets Dorries, is one of the braindead MPs, evangelical Christians from the US are targeting
She’ll be making a huge mistake if she reduces the time limit. Many teenagers particularly younger teenagers do not know that they are pregnant until they start showing!
I would say I’m shocked at how badly Dorries can read the room, but to be honest I’d be shocked just to find out Dorries can read.
Waiting for all the people saying that attacks on abortion rights would never happen here because “we’re not the US” to arrive.
Here we go. Time to start setting fires under the Right. We’re about to see a concerted RW propaganda feast. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not going to be surprised if we see some very GOP style policy announcements soon. Johnson wants to pretend it’s the People against big Govt.
This is why US politics can be relevant in the UK. The looneys over there embolden the looneys over here.
Nadine will personally care for all those extra babies whose parents can’t cope right?
Literally EVERYTHING the American far right do just seeps into this country
It’s shocking
I’m the last year in the UK, less than 1% of abortions were carried out after 20 weeks. These will have been almost exclusively for medical need (mother or foetus), not elective. What exactly is Dorries trying to achieve? To ban the ejecting abortions over 20 weeks that simply aren’t happening anyway, to put women with life-threatening medical conditions at increased risk, or to force foetuses that cannot survive to be carried to term?
Does she want a law that has no consequence (banning elective only) just so she can have her name on something before she exits the cabinet, or does she want to cause real harm and suffering? Either way, good riddance to her.
SHE USED TO BE A FUCKING NURSE!!!
God i loathe this useless cunt of a human being
She has to be doing this to draw attention away from Boris as there’s no other reason to bring this up right now. I doubt anyone else apart from her in cabinet would suggest something so audacious at this moment in time.
Just reminding us she’s human trash before we toss her to the garbage with Boris.
Essentially she believes that because some babies have been saved around the 23-24 week mark, the limit should be reduced to 20 weeks … For some reason.
About time we aborted this government of shitstains.
She literally read what’s going on in the US, thought “Republicans, their basically Tories, but getting away with more – lets emulate them, I’ve seen loads of people on TV happy about abortion rights reductions”
Does someone want to tell Nadine that being culture secretary does not mean getting involved with fucking culture wars.
Doris is a weapons grade rocket who would lose an IQ battle against a punched bag of custard.
Thankfully she will soon be fired back to the backbenches so quick that she’ll need a fucking heatshield.
What. The. Fuck.
No, just no. Shut the fuck up Nadine, you’re about to get slam dunked on to the back benches. You shouldn’t be saying shit.
This seems like a total nothing reading what the abortion provider says about it
>“The vast majority of abortions happen under 10 weeks. The extremely rare cases that do take place over 20 weeks are usually complex and sensitive cases, such as fatal foetal abnormality or young girls who have been raped or taken a longer time to realise they were pregnant.
This suggests it would make very little difference
The 24 week period at the moment is an allowance only for
>risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family
The other cases where abortion is allowed, listed below, aren’t subject to a term limit
>risk to the life of the pregnant woman;
>
>
>preventing grave permanent injury to her physical or mental health;
>
>
>
>substantial risk that, if the child were born, he or she would “suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”
Which would cover rape, fatal foetal abnormality etc.
Unless she’s proposing introducing a time limit for these abortions also.
This sounds like a liberalisation of abortion laws, by for the first time allowing it on demand, without requirement for a mental health injury.
The Independent is the left wing equivalent of the Express, absolute ragebait and constant sewing of division. No surprise given who owns it.
Um no? What are we, the US?
We’re at least a bit more free than the US is, for now. Lets keep it that way and keep religion as far away from our decision making as possible
Living proof that if any of our rights could save her career then you’ll be sure as shit that she’ll put them up for grabs.
Textbook definition of psychotic narcissism
Dimwit Dorries trying to emulate the backwardness of US taliban.
Never going to happen. Unlike the USA, the UK would be perfectly fine with attacking religious institutions and buildings if they started to encroach upon individual freedoms.
I’m very worried that all the anti-abortion groups in America will now turn their attention to other countries. We shouldn’t let this rot take a toe-hold here.
Any excuse to be a cunt and she’s on it immediately
She is a monster. Tories out asap
This fucking woman. Get all the way to fuck with your aping the council of elders in America.
One of several people who should never have been remotely near authority but…Boris, Boris needed nasty shits to keep him in power.
One thing I can’t wrap my fucking head around, is this: If a woman wants to get an abortion, for whatever reason, why on earth would you want to prevent it. The woman will be sad, the child will have a poor life, because the mither DOESN’T WANT TO HAVE A CHILD. Is it not that simple?
The country is in shambles, they need to focus on that rather than trying to take womens rights. How rich coming from a women that is past having reproductive cycles and should focus on her pension instead
Apparently she was walking round in tears yesterday over Boris lmao fuck off Nadine you thick cunt.
She can fuck off and keep her nose out of other people’s business (her along with the pro forced-birthers)
Better slap this down quick as we can. We don’t want this shit show jumping across the Atlantic.
Gentle reminder that this has come out at the same time as a proposal for taxing the childless due to birth rates decreasing, which is directly correlated to people not being able to afford kids due to wage stagnation and increasing housing prices. The appeal of pop out a kid and get a council house has disappeared due to the fact there aren’t any more council houses and both proposals intend to hurt the lower classes. They literally want to force you to have kids to put more people in the workforce to keep wages low.
Here is comes. The relentless lobbying and money from the USA of America’s right (far right) is starting to get its voice heard.
Can we reduce Nadine Dorries’ career down to a sensible duration?
We should protest outside her house, since she’s tying to reduce women’s rights. What a vile person.
This is such bullshit. Until 24 weeks, foetus is not viable outside of the womb unsupported anyway. Also the abnormalities tests are usually done Week 20 but NHS is NHS so you might end up doing it Week 21 or 22 depending on schedulling availability. What’s the point of moving the cut off before the check and then be told your child is not viable?
Of course all of the above assumes Dorries knows this and cares which is a mistake on my part.
FFS. Maybe she’s positioning herself to get some sort of post in a Baker government, because I’m sure that god-bothering libertarian arsehole is looking for someone like her.
I hope the UK people are united against this attack on women in general. This is not “merely” an “abortion time limit” – this is an attack on a woman’s right of ownership over her own body, including aftermath of rape victims. It is not acceptable. The USA did this only because Trump put his loyalists in the “supreme” court (which, by the way, has to remove the name “supreme” – it is just a corrupt entity now).
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Nadine Dorries’ call for the time limit for abortions to be reduced by four weeks has provoked outrage among health care professionals.
The culture secretary argued the legal cut-off point for pregnancy terminations in the UK – which is 24 weeks – should be reduced by a month.
But the Tory MP for Mid Bedfordshire, who is also the patient safety minister, told Times Radio she is pro-choice – as well as also calling for the rule which stipulates two doctors need to consent to an abortion must be axed.
Katherine O’Brien, of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s leading abortion provider, told The Independent Ms Dorries’ calls to curb the abortion time limit were “abhorrent”.
She said: “It was absolutely extraordinary at a moment of huge political crisis, a cabinet member had chosen this as an opportunity to attack abortion rights.
“When the government collapses around her, she decides to attack abortion rights. It is also extraordinary as just last week Dominic Raab said abortion was a settled issue in this country yet government members in the highest offices are looking to restrict abortion.”
Ms O’Brien noted women who seek abortions after the 20-week cut-off point are “often in the most incredibly difficult of circumstances”.
She added: “They may have had a diagnosis of foetal anomaly with a very much wanted pregnancy or they may be young girls who haven’t had regular periods so don’t realise that they are pregnant.”
Ms O’Brien argued Ms Dorries’ position on the abortion time limit demonstrates “a complete lack of understanding for the reasons people have abortions post 20 weeks”.
“Nobody wants to have an abortion,” she added. “Let alone a late-term abortion that involves surgery. It is a difficult procedure. It is not something anyone wants to go through.”
Ms Dorries has repeatedly called for the time limit for abortions to be curtailed from 24 weeks down to 20 and sought to overhaul legislation to relinquish abortion providers’ part in counselling women.
Louise McCudden, of MSI Reproductive Choices UK, another leading abortion provider, said: “There is no clinical justification or evidence base for reducing the abortion time limit, and this would contradict guidance from the World Health Organisation.
“The vast majority of abortions happen under 10 weeks. The extremely rare cases that do take place over 20 weeks are usually complex and sensitive cases, such as fatal foetal abnormality or young girls who have been raped or taken a longer time to realise they were pregnant.
“Criminalising women and health providers in these situations benefits no one. Rather than restricting time limits, we should be looking at ways to better protect women and girls against our outdated abortion laws.”
A study, carried out by YouGov and MSI Reproductive Choices UK, previously found nine in 10 UK adults think women should be able to access abortion services in Britain and specifically identify as being “pro-choice”.
Commenting on Ms Dorries’ comments, Pam Lowe, a sociologist who specialises in anti-abortion activism in the UK, said: “The anti-abortion movement often focuses on issues such as reducing the time limit as a step-by-step strategy to restrict abortion more generally.”
Dr Lowe, a senior lecturer in sociology and policy at Aston University, argued this form of “tactic was successfully used by” anti-abortion groups in many states in America.
She added: “Despite what some believe, abortions later in pregnancy are not feckless decisions by irresponsible women, but usually due to circumstances outside of their control, such as a complication in pregnancy or difficulties in accessing abortion services earlier.”
While Dani Anderson, of the Abortion Support Network, insisted that “no medical basis” exists for an amendment to the legal limit for having an abortion.
“Reducing the limit will cause serious risk to women’s lives,” she added. “Second-trimester abortions are a vital part of medical care and what we need now is the decriminalisation of abortion, rather than following in America’s footsteps and restricting access even further.”
In the UK, abortions are allowed up to 23 weeks and six days of pregnancy but can be performed later if continuing with the pregnancy poses a significant risk to the life of the woman or there are serious foetal abnormalities.
Abortions are still deemed a criminal act in England, Scotland and Wales under the 1967 Abortion Act. If any medical professional delivers an abortion out of the terms of the act, they are at risk of facing criminal punishment.
Legislation passed in 1861 means any woman who ends a pregnancy without getting legal permission from two doctors, who must agree continuing with it would be risky for the woman’s physical or mental health, can face up to life imprisonment. But abortion providers, charities, medical bodies, and MPs have spent years demanding abortion is decriminalised in the UK.
The criticism levied at Ms Dorries comes after the US Supreme Court dismantled Roe v Wade – the landmark decision that legalised abortion nationwide in 1973 – at the end of last month.
24 weeks is a high limit by European standards…
Pretty much sums it up:
> Katherine O’Brien, of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), the UK’s leading abortion provider, told The Independent Ms Dorries’ calls to curb the abortion time limit were “abhorrent”.
> She said: “It was absolutely extraordinary at a moment of huge political crisis, a cabinet member had chosen this as an opportunity to attack abortion rights.
> “When the government collapses around her, she decides to attack abortion rights. It is also extraordinary as just last week Dominic Raab said abortion was a settled issue in this country yet government members in the highest offices are looking to restrict abortion.”
And so it begins. First they reduce it, then they ban it, next to go is gay marriage, then contraception, then womens right to vote. Conservative’s – forward to the 1800’s
Don’t mean to be dismissive, but she’s about to be thrown to the backbenches so hard she might break them. What she says is utterly irrelevant at this point.
I’m a scouser (where she’s from..sigh) and I’m absolutely disgusted we have this piece of shit, who was actually a nurse growing up (so, you would think, she would you know, care about others) and how she’s now a mega termangant, level 1 she devil trout from the fucking depths of the antarctica. Conclusion =An awful, horrible and thick waste of space.
These right wingnut christian taliban have to go everywhere! I didn’t know you were dealing with these control freaks too.
This witch has done this before. She needs to have her head examined.
Johnson: “I‘ll be a caretaker prime minister only. So no major policy changes from now on.”
Tick, tick, tick …
Dorries: “Right. Let’s reduce access to abortions, for a start.”
This woman is definitely on the side of outright evil tory rather than just idiotic ignorant bellend tory.
What’s the bets Dorries, is one of the braindead MPs, evangelical Christians from the US are targeting
She’ll be making a huge mistake if she reduces the time limit. Many teenagers particularly younger teenagers do not know that they are pregnant until they start showing!
I would say I’m shocked at how badly Dorries can read the room, but to be honest I’d be shocked just to find out Dorries can read.
Waiting for all the people saying that attacks on abortion rights would never happen here because “we’re not the US” to arrive.
Here we go. Time to start setting fires under the Right. We’re about to see a concerted RW propaganda feast. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not going to be surprised if we see some very GOP style policy announcements soon. Johnson wants to pretend it’s the People against big Govt.
This is why US politics can be relevant in the UK. The looneys over there embolden the looneys over here.
Nadine will personally care for all those extra babies whose parents can’t cope right?
Literally EVERYTHING the American far right do just seeps into this country
It’s shocking
I’m the last year in the UK, less than 1% of abortions were carried out after 20 weeks. These will have been almost exclusively for medical need (mother or foetus), not elective. What exactly is Dorries trying to achieve? To ban the ejecting abortions over 20 weeks that simply aren’t happening anyway, to put women with life-threatening medical conditions at increased risk, or to force foetuses that cannot survive to be carried to term?
Does she want a law that has no consequence (banning elective only) just so she can have her name on something before she exits the cabinet, or does she want to cause real harm and suffering? Either way, good riddance to her.
SHE USED TO BE A FUCKING NURSE!!!
God i loathe this useless cunt of a human being
She has to be doing this to draw attention away from Boris as there’s no other reason to bring this up right now. I doubt anyone else apart from her in cabinet would suggest something so audacious at this moment in time.
Just reminding us she’s human trash before we toss her to the garbage with Boris.
If anyone wants to know why she wants to do this, the idiot horse’s mouth is here: https://conservativehome.com/2014/09/08/nadine-dorries-mp-heres-my-abortion-reform-plan-and-i-wont-be-frightened-off-it-by-the-westminster-bubble-elites/
Essentially she believes that because some babies have been saved around the 23-24 week mark, the limit should be reduced to 20 weeks … For some reason.
About time we aborted this government of shitstains.
She literally read what’s going on in the US, thought “Republicans, their basically Tories, but getting away with more – lets emulate them, I’ve seen loads of people on TV happy about abortion rights reductions”
Does someone want to tell Nadine that being culture secretary does not mean getting involved with fucking culture wars.
Doris is a weapons grade rocket who would lose an IQ battle against a punched bag of custard.
Thankfully she will soon be fired back to the backbenches so quick that she’ll need a fucking heatshield.
What. The. Fuck.
No, just no. Shut the fuck up Nadine, you’re about to get slam dunked on to the back benches. You shouldn’t be saying shit.
This seems like a total nothing reading what the abortion provider says about it
>“The vast majority of abortions happen under 10 weeks. The extremely rare cases that do take place over 20 weeks are usually complex and sensitive cases, such as fatal foetal abnormality or young girls who have been raped or taken a longer time to realise they were pregnant.
This suggests it would make very little difference
The 24 week period at the moment is an allowance only for
>risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family
The other cases where abortion is allowed, listed below, aren’t subject to a term limit
>risk to the life of the pregnant woman;
>
>
>preventing grave permanent injury to her physical or mental health;
>
>
>
>substantial risk that, if the child were born, he or she would “suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped”
Which would cover rape, fatal foetal abnormality etc.
Unless she’s proposing introducing a time limit for these abortions also.
This sounds like a liberalisation of abortion laws, by for the first time allowing it on demand, without requirement for a mental health injury.
The Independent is the left wing equivalent of the Express, absolute ragebait and constant sewing of division. No surprise given who owns it.
Um no? What are we, the US?
We’re at least a bit more free than the US is, for now. Lets keep it that way and keep religion as far away from our decision making as possible
Living proof that if any of our rights could save her career then you’ll be sure as shit that she’ll put them up for grabs.
Textbook definition of psychotic narcissism
Dimwit Dorries trying to emulate the backwardness of US taliban.
Never going to happen. Unlike the USA, the UK would be perfectly fine with attacking religious institutions and buildings if they started to encroach upon individual freedoms.
I’m very worried that all the anti-abortion groups in America will now turn their attention to other countries. We shouldn’t let this rot take a toe-hold here.
Any excuse to be a cunt and she’s on it immediately
She is a monster. Tories out asap
This fucking woman. Get all the way to fuck with your aping the council of elders in America.
One of several people who should never have been remotely near authority but…Boris, Boris needed nasty shits to keep him in power.
One thing I can’t wrap my fucking head around, is this: If a woman wants to get an abortion, for whatever reason, why on earth would you want to prevent it. The woman will be sad, the child will have a poor life, because the mither DOESN’T WANT TO HAVE A CHILD. Is it not that simple?
The country is in shambles, they need to focus on that rather than trying to take womens rights. How rich coming from a women that is past having reproductive cycles and should focus on her pension instead
Apparently she was walking round in tears yesterday over Boris lmao fuck off Nadine you thick cunt.
She can fuck off and keep her nose out of other people’s business (her along with the pro forced-birthers)
Better slap this down quick as we can. We don’t want this shit show jumping across the Atlantic.
Gentle reminder that this has come out at the same time as a proposal for taxing the childless due to birth rates decreasing, which is directly correlated to people not being able to afford kids due to wage stagnation and increasing housing prices. The appeal of pop out a kid and get a council house has disappeared due to the fact there aren’t any more council houses and both proposals intend to hurt the lower classes. They literally want to force you to have kids to put more people in the workforce to keep wages low.
Here is comes. The relentless lobbying and money from the USA of America’s right (far right) is starting to get its voice heard.
Can we reduce Nadine Dorries’ career down to a sensible duration?
We should protest outside her house, since she’s tying to reduce women’s rights. What a vile person.
This is such bullshit. Until 24 weeks, foetus is not viable outside of the womb unsupported anyway. Also the abnormalities tests are usually done Week 20 but NHS is NHS so you might end up doing it Week 21 or 22 depending on schedulling availability. What’s the point of moving the cut off before the check and then be told your child is not viable?
Of course all of the above assumes Dorries knows this and cares which is a mistake on my part.
FFS. Maybe she’s positioning herself to get some sort of post in a Baker government, because I’m sure that god-bothering libertarian arsehole is looking for someone like her.
I hope the UK people are united against this attack on women in general. This is not “merely” an “abortion time limit” – this is an attack on a woman’s right of ownership over her own body, including aftermath of rape victims. It is not acceptable. The USA did this only because Trump put his loyalists in the “supreme” court (which, by the way, has to remove the name “supreme” – it is just a corrupt entity now).