To be honest, the five points in the letter seem pretty reasonable
>* Joint patrols to prevent more boats from leaving French beaches
>* deploying more advanced technology, like sensors and radar
>* reciprocal maritime patrols in each other’s territorial waters and airborne surveillance
>* deepening the work of the countries’ joint intelligence cell
>* immediate work on a bilateral returns agreement with France, alongside talks to establish a UK-EU returns agreement
Pretty petulant imo. Even if France disagrees with *one* of the *five* suggestions put forward by the UK govt, that’s no reason to abandon talks altogether.
Meeting and discussing is not the same as agreeing with the proposals…
I don’t understand why France and the UK keep on commenting and publishing documents about their negotiations about the Brexit and migrants.
It is mindbogglingly stupid, they keep on driving themselves into corners by making public declarations.
Just negociate and shut the fuck up, this isn’t highschool.
I have a better idea, allow them to cross the Channel to the UK and leave the english to deal with their problem
Fuck sake, France. This is exactly what Boris Johnson wants.
Boris’ plan:
> 1. Provide a ‘solution’ to the problem, subtly establish that asylum seekers can be returned to the EU
> 2. Publish this letter so that it can be on record
> 3. France takes umbrage with the ‘solution’
> 4. France disinvites the UK to the crisis talks regarding migration
> 5. Boris can argue he tried his best, but the EU/France is being uncooperative, it’s the UK versus the World
> 6. Politicians and voters rush in to defend Johnson’s actions, call France petulent
> 7. Conservatives +5
I mean, does Macron secretly prefer to work with Boris Johnson? I genuinely have no idea if it’s just incompetence or he’s trying to help Johnson’s image at home. Because I have news for you, the Tory base doesn’t see this as Johnson fucking it up – they just see it as France chucking its toys out of the pram because an ‘Anglo’ dared to speak up.
If anyone is wondering why France is upset by the letter its because the five point the UK are presenting are more or less already practiced and what the letter is really saying is that the UK wan to preserve the status quo and is not willing to change its position. While presenting itself as being a part of a genuine discussion and downplaying its role in the situation.
A deal with Albion is worthless, they’ve show it several times already.
Those 5 points seem pretty reasonable….
UK Transport Secretary Grant Shapps defended the letter, telling BBC Breakfast that “friends and neighbours” had to work together.
“No nation can tackle this alone.“
———
🙄🤔😒 if only like there was a European Union of some sort where various issues are tackled together? /s
Maybe it’s also good to provide the view from the French Government :
> In a letter to Emmanuel Macron on Thursday evening, Boris Johnson proposed an agreement to allow “the return to France of all illegal immigrants who cross the Channel”. This provoked the anger of France, and the cancellation this Friday, November 26, of a meeting scheduled between Gerald Darmanin and his British counterpart Priti Patel on Sunday.
> In his missive published on Twitter, the British Prime Minister said he agreed with the French desire to “increase” joint efforts to avoid “tragedies” such as the sinking and death of 27 people on Wednesday. He reiterated, among other things, his proposal for joint patrols on the coasts of both countries, but also suggested “a bilateral readmission agreement to allow the return of all illegal migrants who cross the Channel”, similar to those concluded by the EU with Belarus or Russia for example.
> This was all it took to ruffle the feathers of the French executive. In a message to Priti Patel, British Home Secretary, which AFP learned on Friday, Gérald Darmanin said that if the letter from the British Prime Minister to French President Emmanuel Macron is a “disappointment”, the fact of having made public this letter is “even worse”.
> As a result, he cancels the visit of Priti Patel scheduled for Sunday in Calais.
The meeting maintained, England “more welcome”
> “We consider the public letter of the British Prime Minister as unacceptable and contrary to our discussions between counterparts. Therefore, Priti Patel is no longer invited on Sunday to the interministerial meeting,” commented in the entourage of Gérald Darmanin.
> On BFMTV, government spokesman Gabriel Attal denounced a letter “indigent in substance and out of place in form.” It is “indigent because it does not respect all the work done” by the French coastguards, officers and rescue workers, the spokesman was indignant. It is “indigent” because the proposed bilateral agreement “is obviously not what is needed to solve the problem. Before denouncing the “double talk” of the British Prime Minister, whose letter “does not correspond at all to the telephone exchanges with Emmanuel Macron on Wednesday.
> In addition to the British representative, the ministers in charge of immigration from Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands, as well as the European Commission were to participate in this meeting, which is “maintained in format”, but without England.
> The objective was to “define ways and means of strengthening police, judicial and humanitarian cooperation” to “better fight against smuggling networks”, as explained by the French Prime Minister Jean Castex. A mission that seems difficult to carry out, in the absence of one of the countries most concerned by the subject.
> In the morning, British Transport Minister Grant Shapps asked France to reinstate her colleague’s invitation. “No nation can tackle this alone. I hope the French will reconsider (their decision),” she said on the BBC.
> In general, relations between France and Britain remain tense. Gabriel Attal accuses Boris Johnson of wanting to renegotiate “an a la carte deal” on Brexit, particularly in view of the current difficulties on the fisheries agreement. “This is not possible,” hammered the French spokesman. “It is the whole of Europe that expects the British to have a partner with whom it can work” and we must be “extremely firm”.
The fact the British government made that letter public speaks volume about its intentions.
Bojo is not trying to honestly solve the problem here, he’s trying to score political points.
Why is France always depicted as “angry” in international outlets when french officials usually talks about their disappointements ?
With all the posturing from BJ, you would think there would be a big “or else” coming right up. But instead the only thing that the take-back-control lads are offering up is to threaten us with a good time.
France is only acting as the UK’s border patrol because it wants to. It is a net loss for France to do so, and it has been a drain on the region of Calais for many years, as anyone in the french flanders would tell you. And yet you see the brits here acting as if France’s signature of the treaty was granted and even expected. Its not illegal to leave France by boat, you know? Based on what should France and the EU be a shield for you? British exceptionalism? France has FOUR TIMES the number of refugees, and has to take care of your own border for you.
Brexiters humanitarians here seem to care so much about the tragic loss of lives all of a sudden. Well then, we can always ferry them to your shores so you can process them. That will save lives, and our time. Maybe then the UK will start to reform the way its companies and small businesses can employ illegals without repercussions.
I am surprised about the tone of the discussions. Migrants leaving France is not a French issues. If anything, France’s natural position sould be to help the migrant to cross the channel safely, by giving them life jackets.
This is why Boris Johnson letter feels out of place. The UK is in no position to make demands without counterparts (financial counterparts), especially ones that conflicts with basic sovereignty principles.
EU faces the same difficulties with Maghreb countries and Turkey.
I think UK/EU relations are just going to get worse and worse until a total breakdown occurs and maybe in a couple decades a slow reset.
Maybe this is for the best, the untying of UK/EU relations will also hopefully mean we are less politically involved with one another, which would only be an improvement for relations.
Oh, the olde immigrants ping pong. Seems to be happening a lot these days.
16 comments
To be honest, the five points in the letter seem pretty reasonable
>* Joint patrols to prevent more boats from leaving French beaches
>* deploying more advanced technology, like sensors and radar
>* reciprocal maritime patrols in each other’s territorial waters and airborne surveillance
>* deepening the work of the countries’ joint intelligence cell
>* immediate work on a bilateral returns agreement with France, alongside talks to establish a UK-EU returns agreement
Pretty petulant imo. Even if France disagrees with *one* of the *five* suggestions put forward by the UK govt, that’s no reason to abandon talks altogether.
Meeting and discussing is not the same as agreeing with the proposals…
I don’t understand why France and the UK keep on commenting and publishing documents about their negotiations about the Brexit and migrants.
It is mindbogglingly stupid, they keep on driving themselves into corners by making public declarations.
Just negociate and shut the fuck up, this isn’t highschool.
I have a better idea, allow them to cross the Channel to the UK and leave the english to deal with their problem
Fuck sake, France. This is exactly what Boris Johnson wants.
Boris’ plan:
> 1. Provide a ‘solution’ to the problem, subtly establish that asylum seekers can be returned to the EU
> 2. Publish this letter so that it can be on record
> 3. France takes umbrage with the ‘solution’
> 4. France disinvites the UK to the crisis talks regarding migration
> 5. Boris can argue he tried his best, but the EU/France is being uncooperative, it’s the UK versus the World
> 6. Politicians and voters rush in to defend Johnson’s actions, call France petulent
> 7. Conservatives +5
I mean, does Macron secretly prefer to work with Boris Johnson? I genuinely have no idea if it’s just incompetence or he’s trying to help Johnson’s image at home. Because I have news for you, the Tory base doesn’t see this as Johnson fucking it up – they just see it as France chucking its toys out of the pram because an ‘Anglo’ dared to speak up.
If anyone is wondering why France is upset by the letter its because the five point the UK are presenting are more or less already practiced and what the letter is really saying is that the UK wan to preserve the status quo and is not willing to change its position. While presenting itself as being a part of a genuine discussion and downplaying its role in the situation.
A deal with Albion is worthless, they’ve show it several times already.
Those 5 points seem pretty reasonable….
UK Transport Secretary Grant Shapps defended the letter, telling BBC Breakfast that “friends and neighbours” had to work together.
“No nation can tackle this alone.“
———
🙄🤔😒 if only like there was a European Union of some sort where various issues are tackled together? /s
Maybe it’s also good to provide the view from the French Government :
> In a letter to Emmanuel Macron on Thursday evening, Boris Johnson proposed an agreement to allow “the return to France of all illegal immigrants who cross the Channel”. This provoked the anger of France, and the cancellation this Friday, November 26, of a meeting scheduled between Gerald Darmanin and his British counterpart Priti Patel on Sunday.
> In his missive published on Twitter, the British Prime Minister said he agreed with the French desire to “increase” joint efforts to avoid “tragedies” such as the sinking and death of 27 people on Wednesday. He reiterated, among other things, his proposal for joint patrols on the coasts of both countries, but also suggested “a bilateral readmission agreement to allow the return of all illegal migrants who cross the Channel”, similar to those concluded by the EU with Belarus or Russia for example.
> This was all it took to ruffle the feathers of the French executive. In a message to Priti Patel, British Home Secretary, which AFP learned on Friday, Gérald Darmanin said that if the letter from the British Prime Minister to French President Emmanuel Macron is a “disappointment”, the fact of having made public this letter is “even worse”.
> As a result, he cancels the visit of Priti Patel scheduled for Sunday in Calais.
The meeting maintained, England “more welcome”
> “We consider the public letter of the British Prime Minister as unacceptable and contrary to our discussions between counterparts. Therefore, Priti Patel is no longer invited on Sunday to the interministerial meeting,” commented in the entourage of Gérald Darmanin.
> On BFMTV, government spokesman Gabriel Attal denounced a letter “indigent in substance and out of place in form.” It is “indigent because it does not respect all the work done” by the French coastguards, officers and rescue workers, the spokesman was indignant. It is “indigent” because the proposed bilateral agreement “is obviously not what is needed to solve the problem. Before denouncing the “double talk” of the British Prime Minister, whose letter “does not correspond at all to the telephone exchanges with Emmanuel Macron on Wednesday.
> In addition to the British representative, the ministers in charge of immigration from Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands, as well as the European Commission were to participate in this meeting, which is “maintained in format”, but without England.
> The objective was to “define ways and means of strengthening police, judicial and humanitarian cooperation” to “better fight against smuggling networks”, as explained by the French Prime Minister Jean Castex. A mission that seems difficult to carry out, in the absence of one of the countries most concerned by the subject.
> In the morning, British Transport Minister Grant Shapps asked France to reinstate her colleague’s invitation. “No nation can tackle this alone. I hope the French will reconsider (their decision),” she said on the BBC.
> In general, relations between France and Britain remain tense. Gabriel Attal accuses Boris Johnson of wanting to renegotiate “an a la carte deal” on Brexit, particularly in view of the current difficulties on the fisheries agreement. “This is not possible,” hammered the French spokesman. “It is the whole of Europe that expects the British to have a partner with whom it can work” and we must be “extremely firm”.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
The fact the British government made that letter public speaks volume about its intentions.
Bojo is not trying to honestly solve the problem here, he’s trying to score political points.
Why is France always depicted as “angry” in international outlets when french officials usually talks about their disappointements ?
With all the posturing from BJ, you would think there would be a big “or else” coming right up. But instead the only thing that the take-back-control lads are offering up is to threaten us with a good time.
France is only acting as the UK’s border patrol because it wants to. It is a net loss for France to do so, and it has been a drain on the region of Calais for many years, as anyone in the french flanders would tell you. And yet you see the brits here acting as if France’s signature of the treaty was granted and even expected. Its not illegal to leave France by boat, you know? Based on what should France and the EU be a shield for you? British exceptionalism? France has FOUR TIMES the number of refugees, and has to take care of your own border for you.
Brexiters humanitarians here seem to care so much about the tragic loss of lives all of a sudden. Well then, we can always ferry them to your shores so you can process them. That will save lives, and our time. Maybe then the UK will start to reform the way its companies and small businesses can employ illegals without repercussions.
I am surprised about the tone of the discussions. Migrants leaving France is not a French issues. If anything, France’s natural position sould be to help the migrant to cross the channel safely, by giving them life jackets.
This is why Boris Johnson letter feels out of place. The UK is in no position to make demands without counterparts (financial counterparts), especially ones that conflicts with basic sovereignty principles.
EU faces the same difficulties with Maghreb countries and Turkey.
I think UK/EU relations are just going to get worse and worse until a total breakdown occurs and maybe in a couple decades a slow reset.
Maybe this is for the best, the untying of UK/EU relations will also hopefully mean we are less politically involved with one another, which would only be an improvement for relations.
Oh, the olde immigrants ping pong. Seems to be happening a lot these days.