They did something similar around where i work – defaulted all roads to 30 with the exception of main arterial roads. Whilst overall speeds decreased, they found that speeds in key areas that previously had a 20mph limit, such as around parks and schools, were higher with the blanket 20mph limit. Reasoning was that drivers tend to take a 20 mph limit as an indication of a hazard, but the blanket limit had a bit of a boy who cried wolf effect resulting in lower compliance.
I think it was recommended that they removed the lower limit, but they didn’t have the budget. Hopefully WAG have done some in-depth research on if the theory maps to the reality and not just relied on a few people saying they think it might be better.
That’s double the speed of the traffic at the Bryn glass tunnels on the M4
They introduced a 20mph limit for most of Edinburgh several years ago, and people are starting to get used to it. It doesn’t slow cars down much (because they spend most of their time crawling along in heavy traffic either way), but it makes a huge difference to pedestrians and cyclists.
It’s probably the best first step to banning all cars from cities, definitely a positive thing.
30 km/h? That’s ridiculous, that’s even lower than the “through roadworks” speed limit here
I am not against 20mph zones where it is suitable, but this blanket policy is not suitable everywhere. Sure it is theoretically safer, but what’s even safer is no cars at all. Not that I believe there will be a lot of compliance.
This sub has a massive circle jerk against cars so they’ll love this.
Utterly ridiculous.
[deleted]
A UK first? Bristol did this a while ago, so I’m not sure what makes this unique from reading the article
Glad I don’t live in Wales.
I live in a decent sized town and outside the 9am and 5pm rush hour and the busiest bit of the town centre, the roads generally flow pretty freely. I’d be majorly pissed if if all the 30 and odd 40mph roads were reduced to 20mph
Best way to save the planet, 10mph speed limit + Price the fuel so only millionaires can afford. What? We dont have any more ideas.
Mad that someone in the article makes an argument against that cyclists might overtake cars in 20 mph zones.
I think encouraging cycling is one of the benefits they’re going for
Surely all this would really do is increase fines.
Even in the few Twenty zones I’ve been in, you struggle to go that slow. And are waiting till you can speed up again (if you’re going super slow for even longer periods you’d likely speed up much faster, possibly increasing odds of accidents).
I think something that would benefit UK roads far more is stopping people parking all over the roads (one thing I really hate every time I’m in the UK). So many roads are so blocked up with cars you essentially have one middle lane for two way traffic. Barely any visibility, lots of confusion (are they parked, stopped, waiting…), people could step out behind any of them… They essentially have too many vehicles for their property. We even got hit from behind the other day because of this.
A lot of money would need to be spent on installing speed humps and speed cameras to force driver compliance. Some people may think that money would be better spent elsewhere.
I think 20mph makes sense outside schools or inside town centres with lots of pedestrians around, but if there’s a stretch of road where the speed limit is 20 and drivers do not perceive any hazards or enforcement measures they’ll do more than 20.
> “Bikes are overtaking cars”
Get a bike then?
It’s been on for a while in Edinburgh and unless yer a driver who is really really really **angry** all the time because you can’t speed they are generally a good thing. I’ve seen a couple near misses that would have been hits if the cars weren’t going at 20.
All roads in the UK need to be reclassified, with specific classifications.
Motorways/Dual Carriageway – 70mph
A Roads – grass verges, no pavement & >=6.5m wide 60mph
A Roads – as above with frequent house set back from road 50mph
A Roads – through towns with wide pavements & grass verges 40mph
B Roads – between 5.5 & 6.5m wide or with pavement adjacent to road 30mph
C Roads – residential roads, single lane roads 20mph
My list is not exhaustive but each road type needs a specific set of rules and is classified in accordance with those rules.
I may have missed it but the article only says about the amount of accidents that happen are on 30mph roads, not the speed of which the offending vehicle is travelling.
So there’s a possibility that dropping the limit to 20 without any further traffic calming measures to actually enforce the 20mph limit may be fruitless.
As someone who lives in rural Wales, the danger in my town is speeding. The people who are meant to implement these (GoSafe) fail to do much, if anything at all.
What I’ve found, mostly around Edinburgh, is that the 20 doesn’t get adhered to but it’s more like 30 now. So where it was 30 before it was more like 40.
It’s not as bad as it sounds and in residential streets it makes sense but there are certain roads it’s seems pointless so it does creep up to 30.
There are no speed cameras catching anyone speeding in a 20 as far as I know.
Why set restrictions to try and dissuade people from driving while offering no infrastructure benefit for other forms of transport? I live in Wales, I’d love to drive as little as possible, however the train services are piss poor and buses are extortionate, costs me £5 to get to the next town over less than 10 miles away.
>and encourage people to walk and cycle.
Good luck if you’re living in a small village where the nearest shop is 5 miles away, guess you’re walking for 2 hours on a B road. Also if you want people to cycle, offer actual high quality segregated cycle lanes, not a 30cm strip painted on the road. Also Wales is hilly and windy as fuck, not ideal cycling conditions. This would make sense in the cities but most of Wales is rural towns and villages, it’s stupid to impose the rule nationally.
If people actually drove at 30 through a 30 they wouldn’t need to do this. I’d bet many of the incidents cited were caused by people exceeding the limit. But it will slow people down so it will work. Shame that it’s necessary though.
Should be 20mph in all town centres and housing estates.
And we’ve got a health minister who decides she doesn’t need to stick to the speed limits her buddies implemented.
Wales was already anti-drivers. 50mph on dual carriageways, speed camera’s everywhere. So glad I moved.
I live in a 20 town and it’s awful because cars just are not geared to efficiently cruise about at 20. I make the effort to stay at 30 but there’s always a queue behind me.
And the morons who do 50-70 down the long hill still do that.
Okay I’m bored of this stuff. The issue is not the speed limits it’s the drivers, we are taught on this pathetic rock how to pass our test not drive.
I see people failing to understand basic driving concepts every single day. And quite frankly cyclist aren’t any better, they fly through red lights, no regard for anything, I always give a full car width space when going round a cyclist not because I care about your well-being because I’d rather you didn’t just decide to turn for whatever reason and hit my car.
Do cyclists have to obey these speed limits as well? I’ve had alot overtake me damn fast on 20 roads.
I live in the first city in the country to do this.. It honestly isn’t that bad, major artery roads are still 30mph
All this car bashing would be great if the Welsh government would actually make the alternatives realistic. Our public transport is easily the worst I e ever used. It’s unreliable, expensive and just not convenient enough to be used as a viable alternative
I live in one of the trial areas in Cardiff, honestly most of the criticism of this is utter tosh. The speed limit mostly effects residential and built up areas and then when you hit a main road you are back on normal speeds. Unless you are making some sort of crazy rat run through residential streets you only lose out on a minute or two of time generally.
The speed limit makes it FAR easier to pull out of certain junctions, cyclists are a lot more common now, walking around the area is just more pleasant now, it honestly feels like the cafe’s with outdoor seating etc have become more popular (I have no evidence other than my observations though), and its easier to cross the street as cars seem to feel stopping for pedestrians is easier/worth it when they are doing 20. The “putting people off driving” argument is utter bullshit too, and anyone who argues otherwise is just wrong. If the extra 2-3 minutes changes your mind about driving somewhere then you probably shouldn’t be using your car anyway.
Similarly the argument about productivity and efficiency is again irrelevant unless you are a delivery driver or taxi driver etc due to how little it actually effects your travel time.
As for the negatives I have come across is aggressive drivers who either do not know the speed limit or do not care and will tailgate you and we have had one overtake dangerously, I assume this will get less common as it becomes nationwide and so becomes more widely accepted and the police start enforcing the speed limit. It is also now REALLY noticeable when people drive down the street above about 25mph, particularly at night. Again this will hopefully improve as the police start enforcing the speed limit as it is currently not except in a couple of spots in the entire scheme.
TL:DR – I live in the trial area, no negatives at all except for dangerous and aggressive drivers.
>The slower limit has been divisive in areas where there have been trials with some motorists complaining of […] journeys taking longer.
Funny that.
So essentially around 30km/h. Many places across the world are doing this. Do most drivers ignore it? Yes, but it’s better they drive 40km/h in a 30 zone rather than 60 in a 50 zone. Despite what naysaying comments will claim here, putting up signs is mostly enough to make this work.
This isn’t even necessarily a move to get rid of cars. You can traverse most towns with this speed in a reasonable amount of time.
The main two benefits of these policies are health and safety. Most accidents occur due to people driving at too high speeds. Decreasing the velocity at which a car travels gives the driver and the emergency brake system more time to react.
The primary health benefit is reducing noise. Car noise causes stress. Cities aren’t loud, cars are loud (and drunk people on highstreets at 3 in the morning). This stress contributes to an increased rate of heart disease. Reducing noise pollution by slowing down cars is one of the most no-brainer solutions out there.
Oh fuck off this is ridiculous.
I bet they will introduce this in areas that really don’t need to be 30 let alone 20. Regardless of what this article says.
Just another reason for the government to catch people ‘speeding’ to get more money coming in.
Fucking hate this place.
On semi-related topic, why our motorway speed limit is set to 70mph whereas in most of Europe it’s 80-85mph?
I wish my area was 20mph and had speed bumps introduced. I live on a 30 road which has loads of parked cars (I don’t have an issue with this) 2 blind junctions, a blind bend and a blind hill so 30mph already feels way too fast but people come flying at 40mph. Council refuses to do anything because there have been no collisions but it’s just an accident waiting to happen, especially considering the number of kids that play around there
33 comments
They did something similar around where i work – defaulted all roads to 30 with the exception of main arterial roads. Whilst overall speeds decreased, they found that speeds in key areas that previously had a 20mph limit, such as around parks and schools, were higher with the blanket 20mph limit. Reasoning was that drivers tend to take a 20 mph limit as an indication of a hazard, but the blanket limit had a bit of a boy who cried wolf effect resulting in lower compliance.
I think it was recommended that they removed the lower limit, but they didn’t have the budget. Hopefully WAG have done some in-depth research on if the theory maps to the reality and not just relied on a few people saying they think it might be better.
That’s double the speed of the traffic at the Bryn glass tunnels on the M4
They introduced a 20mph limit for most of Edinburgh several years ago, and people are starting to get used to it. It doesn’t slow cars down much (because they spend most of their time crawling along in heavy traffic either way), but it makes a huge difference to pedestrians and cyclists.
It’s probably the best first step to banning all cars from cities, definitely a positive thing.
30 km/h? That’s ridiculous, that’s even lower than the “through roadworks” speed limit here
I am not against 20mph zones where it is suitable, but this blanket policy is not suitable everywhere. Sure it is theoretically safer, but what’s even safer is no cars at all. Not that I believe there will be a lot of compliance.
This sub has a massive circle jerk against cars so they’ll love this.
Utterly ridiculous.
[deleted]
A UK first? Bristol did this a while ago, so I’m not sure what makes this unique from reading the article
Glad I don’t live in Wales.
I live in a decent sized town and outside the 9am and 5pm rush hour and the busiest bit of the town centre, the roads generally flow pretty freely. I’d be majorly pissed if if all the 30 and odd 40mph roads were reduced to 20mph
Best way to save the planet, 10mph speed limit + Price the fuel so only millionaires can afford. What? We dont have any more ideas.
Mad that someone in the article makes an argument against that cyclists might overtake cars in 20 mph zones.
I think encouraging cycling is one of the benefits they’re going for
Surely all this would really do is increase fines.
Even in the few Twenty zones I’ve been in, you struggle to go that slow. And are waiting till you can speed up again (if you’re going super slow for even longer periods you’d likely speed up much faster, possibly increasing odds of accidents).
I think something that would benefit UK roads far more is stopping people parking all over the roads (one thing I really hate every time I’m in the UK). So many roads are so blocked up with cars you essentially have one middle lane for two way traffic. Barely any visibility, lots of confusion (are they parked, stopped, waiting…), people could step out behind any of them… They essentially have too many vehicles for their property. We even got hit from behind the other day because of this.
Good luck enforcing it-[over 80% of car drivers ignore 20mph speed limits.](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533244/free-flow-vehicle-speeds-great-britain-2015.pdf)
A lot of money would need to be spent on installing speed humps and speed cameras to force driver compliance. Some people may think that money would be better spent elsewhere.
I think 20mph makes sense outside schools or inside town centres with lots of pedestrians around, but if there’s a stretch of road where the speed limit is 20 and drivers do not perceive any hazards or enforcement measures they’ll do more than 20.
> “Bikes are overtaking cars”
Get a bike then?
It’s been on for a while in Edinburgh and unless yer a driver who is really really really **angry** all the time because you can’t speed they are generally a good thing. I’ve seen a couple near misses that would have been hits if the cars weren’t going at 20.
All roads in the UK need to be reclassified, with specific classifications.
Motorways/Dual Carriageway – 70mph
A Roads – grass verges, no pavement & >=6.5m wide 60mph
A Roads – as above with frequent house set back from road 50mph
A Roads – through towns with wide pavements & grass verges 40mph
B Roads – between 5.5 & 6.5m wide or with pavement adjacent to road 30mph
C Roads – residential roads, single lane roads 20mph
My list is not exhaustive but each road type needs a specific set of rules and is classified in accordance with those rules.
I may have missed it but the article only says about the amount of accidents that happen are on 30mph roads, not the speed of which the offending vehicle is travelling.
So there’s a possibility that dropping the limit to 20 without any further traffic calming measures to actually enforce the 20mph limit may be fruitless.
As someone who lives in rural Wales, the danger in my town is speeding. The people who are meant to implement these (GoSafe) fail to do much, if anything at all.
What I’ve found, mostly around Edinburgh, is that the 20 doesn’t get adhered to but it’s more like 30 now. So where it was 30 before it was more like 40.
It’s not as bad as it sounds and in residential streets it makes sense but there are certain roads it’s seems pointless so it does creep up to 30.
There are no speed cameras catching anyone speeding in a 20 as far as I know.
Why set restrictions to try and dissuade people from driving while offering no infrastructure benefit for other forms of transport? I live in Wales, I’d love to drive as little as possible, however the train services are piss poor and buses are extortionate, costs me £5 to get to the next town over less than 10 miles away.
>and encourage people to walk and cycle.
Good luck if you’re living in a small village where the nearest shop is 5 miles away, guess you’re walking for 2 hours on a B road. Also if you want people to cycle, offer actual high quality segregated cycle lanes, not a 30cm strip painted on the road. Also Wales is hilly and windy as fuck, not ideal cycling conditions. This would make sense in the cities but most of Wales is rural towns and villages, it’s stupid to impose the rule nationally.
If people actually drove at 30 through a 30 they wouldn’t need to do this. I’d bet many of the incidents cited were caused by people exceeding the limit. But it will slow people down so it will work. Shame that it’s necessary though.
Should be 20mph in all town centres and housing estates.
And we’ve got a health minister who decides she doesn’t need to stick to the speed limits her buddies implemented.
Wales was already anti-drivers. 50mph on dual carriageways, speed camera’s everywhere. So glad I moved.
I live in a 20 town and it’s awful because cars just are not geared to efficiently cruise about at 20. I make the effort to stay at 30 but there’s always a queue behind me.
And the morons who do 50-70 down the long hill still do that.
Okay I’m bored of this stuff. The issue is not the speed limits it’s the drivers, we are taught on this pathetic rock how to pass our test not drive.
I see people failing to understand basic driving concepts every single day. And quite frankly cyclist aren’t any better, they fly through red lights, no regard for anything, I always give a full car width space when going round a cyclist not because I care about your well-being because I’d rather you didn’t just decide to turn for whatever reason and hit my car.
Do cyclists have to obey these speed limits as well? I’ve had alot overtake me damn fast on 20 roads.
I live in the first city in the country to do this.. It honestly isn’t that bad, major artery roads are still 30mph
All this car bashing would be great if the Welsh government would actually make the alternatives realistic. Our public transport is easily the worst I e ever used. It’s unreliable, expensive and just not convenient enough to be used as a viable alternative
I live in one of the trial areas in Cardiff, honestly most of the criticism of this is utter tosh. The speed limit mostly effects residential and built up areas and then when you hit a main road you are back on normal speeds. Unless you are making some sort of crazy rat run through residential streets you only lose out on a minute or two of time generally.
The speed limit makes it FAR easier to pull out of certain junctions, cyclists are a lot more common now, walking around the area is just more pleasant now, it honestly feels like the cafe’s with outdoor seating etc have become more popular (I have no evidence other than my observations though), and its easier to cross the street as cars seem to feel stopping for pedestrians is easier/worth it when they are doing 20. The “putting people off driving” argument is utter bullshit too, and anyone who argues otherwise is just wrong. If the extra 2-3 minutes changes your mind about driving somewhere then you probably shouldn’t be using your car anyway.
Similarly the argument about productivity and efficiency is again irrelevant unless you are a delivery driver or taxi driver etc due to how little it actually effects your travel time.
As for the negatives I have come across is aggressive drivers who either do not know the speed limit or do not care and will tailgate you and we have had one overtake dangerously, I assume this will get less common as it becomes nationwide and so becomes more widely accepted and the police start enforcing the speed limit. It is also now REALLY noticeable when people drive down the street above about 25mph, particularly at night. Again this will hopefully improve as the police start enforcing the speed limit as it is currently not except in a couple of spots in the entire scheme.
TL:DR – I live in the trial area, no negatives at all except for dangerous and aggressive drivers.
>The slower limit has been divisive in areas where there have been trials with some motorists complaining of […] journeys taking longer.
Funny that.
So essentially around 30km/h. Many places across the world are doing this. Do most drivers ignore it? Yes, but it’s better they drive 40km/h in a 30 zone rather than 60 in a 50 zone. Despite what naysaying comments will claim here, putting up signs is mostly enough to make this work.
This isn’t even necessarily a move to get rid of cars. You can traverse most towns with this speed in a reasonable amount of time.
The main two benefits of these policies are health and safety. Most accidents occur due to people driving at too high speeds. Decreasing the velocity at which a car travels gives the driver and the emergency brake system more time to react.
The primary health benefit is reducing noise. Car noise causes stress. Cities aren’t loud, cars are loud (and drunk people on highstreets at 3 in the morning). This stress contributes to an increased rate of heart disease. Reducing noise pollution by slowing down cars is one of the most no-brainer solutions out there.
Oh fuck off this is ridiculous.
I bet they will introduce this in areas that really don’t need to be 30 let alone 20. Regardless of what this article says.
Just another reason for the government to catch people ‘speeding’ to get more money coming in.
Fucking hate this place.
On semi-related topic, why our motorway speed limit is set to 70mph whereas in most of Europe it’s 80-85mph?
I wish my area was 20mph and had speed bumps introduced. I live on a 30 road which has loads of parked cars (I don’t have an issue with this) 2 blind junctions, a blind bend and a blind hill so 30mph already feels way too fast but people come flying at 40mph. Council refuses to do anything because there have been no collisions but it’s just an accident waiting to happen, especially considering the number of kids that play around there