In Poland, citizens were recommended to use the expression “w Ukrainie” instead of the well-established “na Ukrainie” in Polish. The recommendation was published by the Polish Language Council.

40 comments

  3. Fine, I don’t care honestly, language is a living organism.

    If Ukrainians feel like it’s somehow taking away from Ukraine independence and separateness then I see no reason to use “na”.

    Seems a bit silly to me that the only people that are always shouting it’s “na” not “w” are some Konfederacja morons who don’t give a fuck about Ukraine.

    Still, the whole conversation was a lift up from English “the Ukraine” and “Ukraine” thing (where “the” was suggesting it being part of USSR and not a nation), while polish history of “na” and “w” seems to be a bit longer and different context but whatever, it’s understandable in given situation

  4. Can someone ELI5 the difference between using na and w in this context?

  5. Trying to control spoken language by decree makes about as much sense as hoping that plants will stop growing once they are delegalised.

  6. >”Biorąc pod uwagę szczególną sytuację i **szczególne odczucia naszych ukraińskich przyjaciół,** którzy wyrażenia “na Ukrainie”, “na Ukrainę” często odbierają jako przejaw traktowania ich państwa jako niesuwerennego, Rada Języka Polskiego zachęca do szerokiego stosowania składni “w Ukrainie” i “do Ukrainy” i **nie uznaje składni z “na” za jedyną poprawną** (jak można przeczytać w drukowanych wydawnictwach poprawnościowych)” – czytamy w opinii RJP.
    >
    >Rada podkreśliła, że podobnej ewolucji jak w przypadku Ukrainy podlegają też połączenia odnoszące się do Białorusi, Litwy, Łotwy, Słowacji i Węgier.
    >
    >”Wszystkie one mają potwierdzenie w źródłach historycznych z przyimkami “w” oraz “do”, nawet “do Węgier” i “we Węgrzech”. Takie połączenia można akceptować i dziś, choć obywatele tych państw na ogół nie protestują przeciw polskiemu przyimkowi “na” ” – napisano.
    >
    >Na końcu swojej opinii Rada poprosiła zarówno zwolenników zmian, jak i obywateli Ukrainy o to, by **uszanować zwyczaje Polaków, którzy pozostaną przy formie “na Ukrainie”**. Jak podkreślono, **nie jest to objaw lekceważenia**. “Zmiany w języku zachodzą powoli, nie tylko w polszczyźnie” – podsumowała RJP.

    [Source,](https://www.rmf24.pl/fakty/polska/news-na-ukrainie-czy-w-ukrainie-jest-opinia-rady-jezyka-polskiego,nId,6178159#crp_state=1) some important information was missing. Imo it’s stupid, but whatever. I hope I won’t be assaulted for still using using “na” like almost all Poles did just several months ago.

  7. I think it not really important, it is important in Russia where they intentionally using “w” against rules to show they don’t recognize us as country. “w” mean in country “na” mean on territory.

  8. Ah, tak, tworzenie niepotrzebnych problemów z czymś co nigdy nikomu nie przeszkadzało. Jak ktoś mówi na Ukrainie to ma na myśli coś innego niż ukraina? Czemu w takim razie nie zmienimy “na węgrzech” na “w węgrzech”.

  9. My own opinion is that this is short-sighted and stupid. Ukraine is letting itself be defined by a Russian invasion.

    Probably the most popular folk song in Poland is an ode to Ukraine, which has the words “Na zielonej Ukrainie.” Ukraine has a long, proud tradition like this, which much of the language is grounded in. I hate that they’re letting Putin displace that.

    “The Ukraine” is better too.

    In Poland, the word “Cossack” is used to mean something is awesome. It’s kind of like if Japan decided to distance itself from ninja and samurai, or China from kung fu. Part of the reason Ukrainians have the reception in Poland they do is because Ukraine is **awesome**.

    It’s just about as dumb as throwing away Turkey in favor of Türkiye. Yes, a turkey is a silly word, but my guess is the long-term implications are that Türkiye will move into the same obscurity as random steppe, African, and Asian nations, as people can’t write or pronounce it. I mean, I’ll respect the change, but I just think it’s dumb.

  10. Such a bullshit xd a lot of my friends from Ukraine use ” na Ukrainie” XD

  12. Weird but I guess at least it is Polish people saying this?

    Imagine if your language was being colonized by billions of foreigners. Mongolian guy was making all these Facebook posts about how *I’m* supposed to spell his capitol in my language. Nevermind he couldn’t be bothered to rant about the Spanish word used or the characters used in Mandarin? Nope, only matters that he can colonize my language.

    Same deal with people pushing me with the “don’t say ‘in the Ukraine'”. I didn’t think about it at first, but finally I was flabbergasted when I remembered Ukrainian and Russian don’t have the word “the” so this was a total fraud. How about La India and other countries given “the” in Spanish? Why isn’t he fighting for the Spaniards to stop “denigrating” India to non-country status? Jesus. Where does it end?

  13. To those who claim language changes on its own, arbitrary rules are counterproductive, descriptivism good/prescriptivism bad etc. Yeah it kinda does live on its own, but we know mechanisms how words are made, we also know where linguistic changes come from. We are aware that some phrases can change its meaning, their character can change from insult to something neutral or the other way round, and there’s a reason why we don’t use “debil” “kretyn” as a medical term anymore. The recommendation about using “w” instead of “na” when referring to countries has a very reasonable explanation. Anyone who brags about how it’s irrelevant, silly, unnecessary, and nobody gives a fuck, sounds to me like an ignorant. Yes, linguistics is an obscure topic for a regular person. So are integrals, and yet I don’t see comments like “IDGAF about your delta bullshit” under your math posts.

  14. Not citizens! Anybody who speaks Polish.

    And does this really suit to this sub? Vast majority of those who do not speak Polish, will never understand what the issue is about.

  15. Obie formy poprawne, dalej bede mowic i pisac na Ukrainie, jebać

  16. Sorry but no. I donate to a charity helping Ukraine EVERY month since the war started but I’m not changing my language to something that just sounds unnatural to me. We also have “na Słowacji” and nobody is fighting that one because it just doesn’t make sense.

  18. Sorry for being that one guy, but the Polish Language Council does not seem to be bothered to proofread their text before publishing it? “od dziesięcioleci lat”. I am not a purist and can turn a blind eye on some typos or mistakes in regular texts, but c’mon, it’s the body that should be the paragon of the correct usage of the Polish language.

  19. I will still use “w” and “do” and noone will tell me how I am going to talk.

  20. Imagine changing your language because it sounds disrespectful in a different language.

  21. “Od dziesięcioleci lat”? What language council is that? Did PiS ruin another good institution with nepotism or was it always like that?

  22. Szczerze kogo to obchodzi, gadasz jak ci wygodniej i tyle

  23. The idea of changing the language to change how people think is straight out of 1984, literally.

    Now obviously we are not there yet, it’s just a recommendation, but it just shows the direction of thoughts of the current left.

    In other words they can stick the opinion you know where.

  24. Uwielbiam kiedy zajmujemy się bardzo istotnymi problemami

  25. People are dying there and they are discussing about such irrelevant bs…

  26. But why? I won’t use it. We say ‘na Słowacji’, ‘na Węgrzech’, ‘na Litwie’, etc. Fuck it.

  27. Czy tylko ja zauważyłem „dziesięcioleci lat” na początku trzeciego akapitu?
    Solidne stanowisko Rady Języka Polskiego..

  28. The fact that this small change in language, which is completely voluntary, causes so much anger among some people is just beyond me.

  30. To be honest I prefer using “na”. It’s just more interesting to have 2 ways of saying that and this one feels a little special like using tryumf instead of triumf etc.

  32. So let’s wait for the war to escalate and we can call it “wojna w Litwie”.

  33. English has pretty much the same issue where Ukrainians want people to say “in Ukraine” instead of “in the Ukraine” again it’s a terminology you would use for a territory but not really for a country.

  36. It used to be that way in glorious days of PLC. “na” is the remnant of worse partition times. So I’m more than OK with it

    But polish language Council overall is a body quite detached from the common language. Like they’re insisting we should use masculine “puf”, when everyone and their mothers use feminine “pufa”, so i wouldn’t treat them like some language oracle, even if I agree with them this one time.

  37. I have a theory that we write “jadę na” if the goal is a country that Poland is able to conquer. while “jadę do” we use if the target is a country that would beat us down.

  38. Well the only thing I can see that war isn’t real problem, because using “w Ukrainie” or “na Ukrainie” has much bigger priority than saving the country itself… WTF is wrong with this world.

  39. “W Polsce już od dziesięcioleci lat…” ciekawe czy pisała to sama Rada Języka Polskiego xd

  40. Fuck that. Im not going to change my language to accomodate that

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