I remember the smear campaign all over r/europe that Poland demanded the newest tanks from Germany right now and we’re entitled brats, good times.
Turned out to be bullshit – Poland wanted 40 older tanks, was offered 20 tanks. In a year and one a month initially, later 3 a month. Meantime Poland sent over 500 tanks to Ukraine
I’m glad Poland is ditching leos altogether, Germany proved to not be a reliable partner.
If literal interpretations of polysemic words are allowed, Germany could consider delivering storage vessels.
Losing credibility with Poland? Pfff …
Why should we care about the credibility with PIS-Poland that has called us “the fourth Reich” for years already?
Why should we care about the credibility with a government that continuously operates in bad faith and has used the most disgusting kind bigotry and hatred towards us for domestic gains?
It is not Germany that has to do a mea culpa and needs to prove that it can be a reliable partner on the European stage….
I mean, as a Norwegian I hope we never buy any german military equipment ever again and ditch what german equipment we have.
French, American, British, Spanish, Swedish and our own is more than enough.
Germany has delivered quite a bit of equipment. 10 PHZ 2000, 3 MLRS systems, multiple counter battery systems and a lot of AT/AA portables but still common this is sort of underwhelming from what was once a world superpower and is now a 4th largest economy on the planet and one of the largest and most advanced military industrial sectors on the planet.
I remember outtake from a US pentagon-hill briefing from that Trump SecDef, Mad Dog or what was his name. He stated the only country whos peace and wartime military industrial complex can match US in production and technological advancements is Germany but their sector is pretty much dead.
To be fair to Germany they didn’t have 100s of Soviet tanks to give to UA and UA did say they don’t want Leopards unless they can get a large number of upgraded ones because it would complicate logistics too much and require people that are already training to maintain multiple different systems to also train to maintain and operate these.
We could have a stronger response from Germany tho.
Can someone for the love of justice delete this topic from here ? Both nations went through a lot of bad things. Are we really need to make more dramas in XXI Centuries to divide us?
Normal people don’t care about what politics are saying… stop it FFS.
>the freedom of Europe is being fought in Ukraine
Who comes up with this kind of bullshit. All of Ukraine could fall tomorrow, and it would barely change a damn thing in the European NATO countries, Russia can’t fight worth a shit. This world war 2 rhetoric is downright idiotic.
Theory: Gerhard Schröder didn’t go visit Moscow for vacation, but Olaf Scholz sent him to negotiate for more Russian gas to Germany.
I didn’t realise that this was a DW article because reading I thought “Here we go again…another Telegraph article about Germany”.
it is already lost tbh
As this topic comes up again and again, I’ll try to reconstruct what actually happened:
* In March or early April, Poland sends T-72 tanks to Ukraine.
* In late April, the German government announces a [plan to backfill](https://www.bmvg.de/de/aktuelles/ringtausch-zur-unterstuetzung-der-ukraine-5397036) other countries, so that those countries can send equipment to Ukraine without totally compromising their defensive capabilities.
* Talks start with various countries which have not yet send their tanks to Ukraine and with Poland, which already had sent tanks.
* In May, the Polish president [Duda accused Germany](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/05/24/poland-accuses-germany-of-reneging-on-promise-to-provide-tanks-to-replace-those-given-to-ukraine/) of reneging on their ‘promise’ to backfill Poland.
* Reportedly, Poland first wanted a 1:1 compensation with Leopard 2 tanks and later reduced their expectation to 44 to 58 Leopard 2A4 tanks.
* Germany first offered 100 (old) Leopard 1 tanks, which Poland declined. Afterwards, they offered 20 Leopard 2A4 to be made available 2023. The German government says they cannot offer more, as they do not have more available.
>!I’m afraid the Eastern European partners simply have a false idea of what Germany is capable of delivering in the shortest possible time. […] From the German side, not everything is feasible at the moment. […] From the Polish side, pressure is now being generated publicly via German media. This is not really helpful, especially since behind the scenes people are dealing with each other fairly. After all, we can’t cut the tanks we want out of our ribs. The Polish government knows that too. !<
If you have any (sourced) corrections or additions, feel free to comment – especially from the Polish point of view. I’d especially like to know, if there had been any concrete promise by Germany or if the Polish government simply refers to the announcement I have linked.
Why do we care about what PiS thinks? There was an offer that they did not like and now PiS is keeping this topic alive to yet again shit on Germany.
God save the EU if we ever have a party in charge that insults its “partners” as much as PiS does.
I blame the German educational system that turned a once militarist nation into the basically a bigger Switzerland
Lmao OP seems pretty butthurt and blinded by bigotry ngl
Once again confirming “If you repeat a lie often enough…” even though the claim of replacing ancient Polis tanks with trillions of newest models that haven’t even been manufactured yet been disproven often enough.
16 comments
I remember the smear campaign all over r/europe that Poland demanded the newest tanks from Germany right now and we’re entitled brats, good times.
Turned out to be bullshit – Poland wanted 40 older tanks, was offered 20 tanks. In a year and one a month initially, later 3 a month. Meantime Poland sent over 500 tanks to Ukraine
I’m glad Poland is ditching leos altogether, Germany proved to not be a reliable partner.
If literal interpretations of polysemic words are allowed, Germany could consider delivering storage vessels.
Losing credibility with Poland? Pfff …
Why should we care about the credibility with PIS-Poland that has called us “the fourth Reich” for years already?
Why should we care about the credibility with a government that continuously operates in bad faith and has used the most disgusting kind bigotry and hatred towards us for domestic gains?
It is not Germany that has to do a mea culpa and needs to prove that it can be a reliable partner on the European stage….
I mean, as a Norwegian I hope we never buy any german military equipment ever again and ditch what german equipment we have.
French, American, British, Spanish, Swedish and our own is more than enough.
Germany has delivered quite a bit of equipment. 10 PHZ 2000, 3 MLRS systems, multiple counter battery systems and a lot of AT/AA portables but still common this is sort of underwhelming from what was once a world superpower and is now a 4th largest economy on the planet and one of the largest and most advanced military industrial sectors on the planet.
I remember outtake from a US pentagon-hill briefing from that Trump SecDef, Mad Dog or what was his name. He stated the only country whos peace and wartime military industrial complex can match US in production and technological advancements is Germany but their sector is pretty much dead.
To be fair to Germany they didn’t have 100s of Soviet tanks to give to UA and UA did say they don’t want Leopards unless they can get a large number of upgraded ones because it would complicate logistics too much and require people that are already training to maintain multiple different systems to also train to maintain and operate these.
We could have a stronger response from Germany tho.
Can someone for the love of justice delete this topic from here ? Both nations went through a lot of bad things. Are we really need to make more dramas in XXI Centuries to divide us?
Normal people don’t care about what politics are saying… stop it FFS.
>the freedom of Europe is being fought in Ukraine
Who comes up with this kind of bullshit. All of Ukraine could fall tomorrow, and it would barely change a damn thing in the European NATO countries, Russia can’t fight worth a shit. This world war 2 rhetoric is downright idiotic.
Theory: Gerhard Schröder didn’t go visit Moscow for vacation, but Olaf Scholz sent him to negotiate for more Russian gas to Germany.
I didn’t realise that this was a DW article because reading I thought “Here we go again…another Telegraph article about Germany”.
it is already lost tbh
As this topic comes up again and again, I’ll try to reconstruct what actually happened:
* In March or early April, Poland sends T-72 tanks to Ukraine.
* In late April, the German government announces a [plan to backfill](https://www.bmvg.de/de/aktuelles/ringtausch-zur-unterstuetzung-der-ukraine-5397036) other countries, so that those countries can send equipment to Ukraine without totally compromising their defensive capabilities.
* Talks start with various countries which have not yet send their tanks to Ukraine and with Poland, which already had sent tanks.
* In May, the Polish president [Duda accused Germany](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/05/24/poland-accuses-germany-of-reneging-on-promise-to-provide-tanks-to-replace-those-given-to-ukraine/) of reneging on their ‘promise’ to backfill Poland.
* Reportedly, Poland first wanted a 1:1 compensation with Leopard 2 tanks and later reduced their expectation to 44 to 58 Leopard 2A4 tanks.
* Germany first offered 100 (old) Leopard 1 tanks, which Poland declined. Afterwards, they offered 20 Leopard 2A4 to be made available 2023. The German government says they cannot offer more, as they do not have more available.
​
The last two points are taken from [this](https://www.faz.net/agenturmeldungen/dpa/ringtausch-fuer-ukraine-polen-will-mehr-deutsche-panzer-18194752.html) newspaper article and [this](https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2022-07/ukraine-waffenlieferung-ringtausch-polen-krieg) interview with the German defense politician Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann. There she explains
>!I’m afraid the Eastern European partners simply have a false idea of what Germany is capable of delivering in the shortest possible time. […] From the German side, not everything is feasible at the moment. […] From the Polish side, pressure is now being generated publicly via German media. This is not really helpful, especially since behind the scenes people are dealing with each other fairly. After all, we can’t cut the tanks we want out of our ribs. The Polish government knows that too. !<
If you have any (sourced) corrections or additions, feel free to comment – especially from the Polish point of view. I’d especially like to know, if there had been any concrete promise by Germany or if the Polish government simply refers to the announcement I have linked.
Why do we care about what PiS thinks? There was an offer that they did not like and now PiS is keeping this topic alive to yet again shit on Germany.
God save the EU if we ever have a party in charge that insults its “partners” as much as PiS does.
I blame the German educational system that turned a once militarist nation into the basically a bigger Switzerland
Lmao OP seems pretty butthurt and blinded by bigotry ngl
Once again confirming “If you repeat a lie often enough…” even though the claim of replacing ancient Polis tanks with trillions of newest models that haven’t even been manufactured yet been disproven often enough.