I’m noticing that in Ireland political discussion is being worsened by people who lack the ability to sympathise with other opposing political stances. And I think online this is issue is exacerbated immensely.
The worst example is housing, in which people have thrown out reason logic and empiricism for vapid populism, take this video for example
( https://youtu.be/Mq6oBdY6uGQ)
here at 4;30 Dr rory Herne suggests rent control as a good policy for to alleviate the housing crisis, however he believes the government refuses to do so because they “want rents to increase”
This here is a incredibly uncharitable interpretation of government policy, what ever you think of rent control you have to knowledge the simple fact that it is extremely controversial policy amongst economists, Herne never even attempts to argue against any of the criticisms of rent control but instead he makes opponents of the policy out as wealthy elites who can never be correct
Political discussion on this sub and other Irish subreddits has also been massively been hindered by people who are too immature sympathise with opposing ideas, here are just a few examples
Here disproveal of a member of the IRA is indicative of having family members in the former RIC. Replies to that comment also state that critics of the IRA are also Fine Gael voters who wants the RIC commemorated. Whatever you think of the IRA you have to knowledge many people have issues with the IRA not because they are loyalists.
https://www.reddit.com/r/irishpolitics/comments/v2cn4o/leo_varadkar_confident_he_could_secure_a_yes_vote/iarmsjs?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
A comment from Irish politics states that only the upper class residents of South Dublin would support EU military integration
Here a commenter states that rentals only serves to benefit the elite, ignoring the many demographics of people were buying is impossible or wouldn’t benefit, groups such as students, short term external and internal immigrants, or people leaving abusive house holds. Non of those groups are elites but often the most disadvantaged of society.
There are many more examples I can give however I believe the point has been made. Ireland is a very ideologically dervice nation, the most popular political party at the moment is sinn fien, with only 37% support, meaning that 63% do not support them, and other parties have even less support. The last time a political got 50% of the vote was in 1977.
when discussing politics don’t dismiss all your opposition as elites, because you’ll never learn from them, and they’ll never listen to you because why would they, you’ve dismissed all of their arguments and refuse to even make one. they might actually be right about a few things.
14 comments
I don’t agree
The state need to take over building houses, it’s a simple as that. The only other option is private consortiums, which is currently the method, and that’s working out really well….
RE: housing, I’ve always found the “TDs want rents to increase” line far-fetched.
The reality is much simpler – we are in fact really quite incompetent.
Politicians are at fault for plenty of it:
* incompetence – complete lack of large-scale planning, bad training system for trades leading to too few/underskilled tradespeople, too little power in city councils, failure to modernize planning and building standards,
* Ideological – opposition to public housing and government led development, austerity mindset and refusing to invest money in housing or infrastructure, especially during low economic times when it would be cheap and stimulate growth and development
* self-interest – playing local politics over the interest of the country. Never being willing to stand behind projects, instead choosing to stand behind a vocal minority of local dickheads who oppose everything, meaning we can get nothing done.
I just don’t think they’re deliberately breaking the country for the sake of what’s a relatively small amount of money. If you look disclosures, very few of them own very much. Frankly, there are *much* better ways for an immoral politician to make money.
Then of course there’s all of the other international scale stuff that has a big effect too.
I can understand that others disagree with me, I just know that they’re wrong.
Fuck you FFG lackie/ShinnerBot
Don’t mistake online with the real world. Online tends to attract the nutters (from both ends of the spectrum). In real life you don’t see them as they are attending meetings of ten people at a time discussing the overthrow of capitalism, or the number of immigrants in their area, and you’re not exposed to them. Online they make a lot of noise.
>Here a commenter states that rentals only serves to benefit the elite, ignoring the many demographics of people were buying is impossible or wouldn’t benefit, groups such as students, short term external and internal immigrants, or people leaving abusive house holds. Non of those groups are elites but often the most disadvantaged of society.
Couldn’t agree more with this. I’ve raised the argument a few times in discussions about landlords online and in person and it’s rarely ever well received. People are too quick to lump all landlords in the one box and simply think that every single person is available to afford a house straight away
The vilification of landlords in Ireland is pushing more and more small time landlords out of the market and allowing these properties to be bought by foreign investment funds. This is an extremely worrying situation and will lead to a very very bleak rental and housing situation in Ireland
I don’t see any of the comments highlighted there as being anything other than opinion, albeit polemical in part. The op himself seems to want to call out these arguments here rather than on the thread.
Reddit has its flaws but not there.
Essentials need to be publicly owned. Otherwise they eventually succumb to greed. It happens all over the world again and again.
There is no middle ground on essentials. Almost completely Council/State owned. End of.
You want a fancy gated community, go right ahead with a private developer. But this is a black and white issue. The current system does not work, and pussy footing around trying to find a middle ground is why we’re still in this fucking mess.
I listen to Ahern’s podcast every so often. He obviously he is a very compassionate man, but he is so compassionate it blinds his reason. It is one thing to say that the gov wants stable house prices but seems highly unlikely that they would want high rents.
It sounds like I’m your guy. I don’t think these are unfounded beliefs.
> however he believes the government refuses to do so because they “want rents to increase”
How is this unfounded? Varadkar’s comment about rent as income was pretty clear.
Plus, if they don’t want a reputation of encouraging high rent, then they should have taken any action whatsoever in the last decade and a half.
>This here is a incredibly uncharitable interpretation of government policy, what ever you think of rent control you have to knowledge the simple fact that it is extremely controversial policy amongst economists, Herne never even attempts to argue against any of the criticisms of rent control but instead he makes opponents of the policy out as wealthy elites who can never be correct
Because in my world, rent should be lower than a mortgage. This is a belief I hold quite strongly, and as long I do, those disagree can never be correct (in my view, and other renters).
>Here disproveal of a member of the IRA is indicative of having family members in the former RIC. Replies to that comment also state that critics of the IRA are also Fine Gael voters who wants the RIC commemorated. Whatever you think of the IRA you have to knowledge many people have issues with the IRA not because they are loyalists.
>
Not loyalist, but centre right FFG voters. This is encouraged by FFG invoking the IRA any time someone suggests voting against FFG.
For me, this is borne out of experience. It is far from an uncommon perspective amongst slightly out of touch, older, establishment voters.
>
>A comment from Irish politics states that only the upper class residents of South Dublin would support EU military integration
>
Wasn’t that due to opinion polls?
Even in other countries, the folks who won’t feel the effects of military action and typically are most in favour of it.
Open to being corrected though.
>Here a commenter states that rentals only serves to benefit the elite, ignoring the many demographics of people were buying is impossible or wouldn’t benefit, groups such as students, short term external and internal immigrants, or people leaving abusive house holds. Non of those groups are elites but often the most disadvantaged of society.
>
I mean this is self contradictory.
Yes, if renting is cheaper than buying, then you being a landlord could potentially be argued as having a neutral or even positive effect on renters.
When renting is more expensive than buying, it becomes extractive and you are taking advantage of folks who by your own word are disadvantaged in our society.
>There are many more examples I can give however I believe the point has been made. Ireland is a very ideologically dervice nation, the most popular political party at the moment is sinn fien, with only 37% support, meaning that 63% do not support them, and other parties have even less support. The last time a political got 50% of the vote was in 1977.
I mean that’s on account of STV. Are you American?
> when discussing politics don’t dismiss all your opposition as elites, because you’ll never learn from them, and they’ll never listen to you because why would they, you’ve dismissed all of their arguments and refuse to even make one. they might actually be right about a few things.
What learnings are they offering?
Automatic downvote
The problem is that if you’ve observed the government parties over the past fifteen years or so you either have to conclude that they’re grossly incompetent, or just simply ok with the status quo. It’s not about a lack of empathy.
You really think ireland has diverse social and political views?
wheres the right of center party then?