Yes, I’m pretty convinced that the vast majority of people understand that Brexit isn’t working for us. But we’re still pretty evenly split (probably 48% to 52%) between people who think it was never going to work, and those who think it has been mis-managed or even sabotaged by the EU/Remainers/deep state.
A Labour Party that declared that it would reverse “the will of the people” would be unelectable. We need to work with what we’ve got and start building consent on the right way to move forward. It’s going to be painful, frustrating and there’s no quick fix.
The EU is probably not interested in yet another special deal, for reasons that should be obvious.
The only thing that might tempt them back to the negotiation table is either a deal for complete single market membership (with all the benefits and all the obligations), or the specific agreements already proposed by the EU.
The reason for this is that the first would defuse the whole Northern Ireland issue altogether, the latter would imply a full implementation of the Northern Ireland Protocol on terms that the EU proposed in the first place. Other than that, there will be no appetite whatsoever to engage further with the UK, as its political instability and resulting tendency towards treaty-breaking basically guarantees that any deal will be built on quicksand anyway. High risks and uncertain rewards.
The reality is that the EU’s price will be higher than it was, due to the perceived increase of risk. The author talks of mutual recognition of standards and qualification; the EU will want to talk about dynamic alignment. He proposes a myriad of deals; the EU will want an institutional framework with robust safeguards. He proposes a Swiss style deal with opt-outs and ins (“some immigration”); the EU will see this as “cakeism”. He speaks of closer ties with the EU, but the EU will think these ties will have to be expressed as legal and political obligations to have any reality. And before any of that can happen, the EU will insist on the UK upholding its existing obligations under the Withdrawal Agreement and the TCA.
Note that these are the same issues that haunted the Brexit negotiations and in many ways this is throwback to the early have-your-cake-and-eat-it deals of the May government, which the EU rejected out of hand. There is no indication that its position has shifted on any of these points.
Because of this, any electoral promises that fall between a normalization of relations by accepting the EU’s proposals while implementing the NIP on the one hand, and making a bid for re-accession into the single market on the other, are probably empty and undeliverable.
Pragmatism is good. A better relationship is easy. Moving towards a closer position in the legal and political sense will come at a cost, and there has to be a stable political consensus about going there. If that can not be delivered, then don’t bother. If it falls apart again because the wrecking crew find their way back into power, then that will only damage the UK’s reputation as a political and diplomatic partner further.
Because 2 things:
1. Those who voted for Brexit were generally more interested in what Europeans would lose than what they would gain.
2. Sunken cost fallicy.
Cos they’re scared of their own shadow at this point.
Because they’re damned if they do. People already dont trust them. You’ve got to remember how many people voted for brexit. Yes its a flop, but years on we’re still split in half.
Well Roy
It’s freedom of movement that’s the thing
You are never, ever going to get people to sign back up to that, and if you don’t sign up to that, you can’t be in the EEA and you can’t have frictionless trade
Without frictionless trade the best you can do is like what we have now, except with less cuntishness
The trouble is we had the sweetest of sweet deals with the EU, no amount of closer bonds will get anywhere close to what we had and what we lost.
The country will forever be economically, socially and culturally damaged, that’s just something we have to get used to and live with.
The few Brexiteers I’ve listened to in conversation in the last couple of years are on a different plane of existence to me to be honest.
All their conversation is based around how the EU are being unreasonable or playing games when it comes to things like checking passports or not giving out deals etc. Nothing is the fault of the government.
So that’s a no…
Because voters still don’t want a party that’s dedicated to joining the EU. There are a lot of loud voices for it, but it’s not translating to clear votes at elections.
Because of stubborn people who cant yet admit they were wrong.
As much as i want labor to call this i think it would harm their election chances.
Don’t blame Brexit, that will turn off voters. Blame the Tories for screwing it up – that will attract both Remain and Leave voters.
Labour will get annihilated by the Conservative’s media wing in the newspapers if they go anti-Brexit.
I think their best bet is to campaign on the fact that the Conservatives have fucked Brexit up. “A wasted opportunity”, “incompetent trade deal negotiations” etc
Blame EVERYTHING on the Conservatives handling of Brexit in the same way the Tories have turned blaming “the last Labour government” into a meme.
Until there is a public reckoning for the architects of the brexit shitshow, nothing will change.
All the members of the ERG, Farage, Boris etc need to hauled up, humiliated and ostracised and a price paid for the sack of shit, lies and undeliverable promises made. There was never a magical one brexit suits everyone scenario, but that was how it was sold and now those cunts and the clowns that supported them want to lay the entire blame for the fiasco at others doors, or that it can all be fixed and the benefits seen in 50-100 years time, when they are long dead and have raped the country completely for their mates and offspawn.
None want to be honest and admit its a mistake, they just want everyone to move on and accept that we are returning to the rose tinted era of being the dirty man of Europe.
….. Because all cunts.
The politicians misread the mood of people, showing yet again how out of touch they are. They seem to have thought that it would be resounding vote for remain.
more people voted to leave the EU that voted Tory in the last election that gave an 80 seat majority.
Did he say we can’t have a closer bond with Europe?
If Labour get into power they can.
Because that won’t appeal to Tory voters.
People have no idea what Brexit they voted for. Like ordering an unfamiliar meal from a restaurant, and no matter how shit it is you politely eat it because you’re embarrassed that you ordered something without knowing what it was.
>and the voters know it
Citation bloody needed
it’s obvious stinks to tory in the party.
I mean, do the voters know it? Have we had any data on the current opinion of Brexit?
Also, where are they located? If a safe seat is overwhelmingly remain but a contested seat is pro-brexit, they’d lose the election by calling for a closer bond with europe.
I love Corbyn. Except for his impact on Brexit and how that left the Labour party standing on it. His timid (and late) campaign for Remain (due to his long standing questions on the EU and its problems for UK workers) meant that Labour never created a solid remain identity within any party wing.
This leaves gutless Keir Starmer, Blair Lite v2.0 with basically no votes he can see in the (new) center of politics and no history within the party to push for it.
Also, I’m sure that he has Party Strategists and other Very Smart People telling him that its a Lib Dem issue in a lot of seats and they’ll never win by pivoting (in the short term).
Because its Keith starmers policy to not have an opinion on anything.
The moment Labour say “we think we should be in Europe” the Tories will pivot the whole debacle into being “Labour’s Fault” instead of the result of decades of Tory infighting. Unless people actively stop giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt or treating them like a comedy act or simply tolerating them, there will never be any possiblity of closer bonds with anybody let alone Europe.
There are two kinds of people: Leave and Remain. The Leave Camp bought the Seventeen Million Lies. The Remain Camp did not. It is not about the Seventeen Million Lies being mismanged, or sabotage, or the Will of the People, or anything like that. The Leave Lies were wrong. It does not work.
Nobody will ever build “consent” for reentering Europe in any way whatsoever because the Tories have built the Leave Lie into being a central tenet of British Life. Get use to being a pariah from a failed state.
It does not matter who was involved – the Americans or Russians – there was never any benefit to the Seventeen Million People who each bought their own separate lie. This is how economic hitmen work. This is what you get when Cold War Geopolitics is allowed to fester unhindered. This is what the Tory Party.
Either Labour destroys the Tory Party completely or there will never be any prospect of a relationship with Europe. And, no, it cannot be the Liberal Democrats because the Liberal Democracts will simply be dragged in and coopted on the side of the Tories because of their involvement in the Coalition and their promotion of the European Union Act which facilitated the debacle in the first place. Is that true or fair: probably not. But that is the divide and rule scenario the Tories have created and that is what anybody with any sense has to deal with.
The bottom line is that Labour can spend its time with witch hunts pandering to imaginary opinions and the Liberal Democrats can mess about trying to be anything other than a refuge for disgruntled Tories or they can both get off their well paid arses and do something practical about destroying the Tories. It is not a Party Political thing: it is an existential crisis for the UK. Either the Fraud of Brexit is punished or the UK is destined to be little more than a money laundering slum abolishing human rights and endlessly circling the toilet because nobody has the courage to just flush.
Brexit hasn’t even *really* happened yet, there are a bunch of long delayed checks at borders that still have not been implemented because they’ll slow things down even further, the Northern Ireland problem remains unsolved and the Tory government know this, so they keep kicking the can down the road. We have not got Brexit done.
There is no point arguing about whether it’s good or not or should be reversed or not until we’ve fully implemented it and the pain is horrifyingly obvious. Some are starting to see this now with passport lines and the inconvenience of moving around. Some have noticed impacts here and there but much worse is to come, the Brexit voting public and the Tories need to own that and come to their own collective realisation that they fucked up.
I’d argue it isn’t Labour who need to pivot their position, opening old wounds isn’t wise, it’s the Tories who need to admit it isn’t working and admit that to their voters, because until they do, nothing will change. Labour can seize on that opportunity when it occurs, but they can’t change the zeitgeist by themselves because it isn’t an issue of their making and in the polar world of politics, it’ll just push contrarian “will of the people” sovereignty obsessed voters further away from the party.
Or another vote. Actual democracy is fluid. If the will of the people has changed or evidence has come to light of detrimental core issues, we should be able to ballot for concensus. We are adults, I’m certain it means, we can change our minds. It would not be kneejerk policy either… Its been a few years and it’s a shit show for the general public methinks
>…why can’t Labour call for a closer bond with Europe?
It’s a vote loser. The Tories will claim that they’re trying to reverse Brexit.
I, like Starmer, was a hardcore Remainer but that’s done for a generation.
Too many still believe in Brexit to make this a campaign issue.
There’s something that I’m finding slightly irritating about this discourse.
We’ve dicked the EU about for 5 years, even if we decide we want a closer bond with Europe, it’s not really up to us what that bond will look like.
It will depend entirely upon what the EU is willing to put on the table. It will not be as good an offer as was available when we were still a member, like the all UK backstop (and there’s no procedure for the leaders of opposition parties to find out from the EU what they might be prepared to offer, so them committing to anything solid would be foolhardy).
I think there’s still a streak of British exceptionalism in this, that believes just because we, the British, are coming to our senses, the EU is going to suddenly welcome us back with open arms, when they’ll probably not.
We will need to act in good faith with our current arrangements, and use the bodies that have been created to find non-sabre-rattling methods of dealing with the issues that Brexit has caused, before they’ll entertain any further rapprochement.
Should we attempt to re-apply, the accession process will be fairly long and bruising, the acquis as they exist now are much stricter than they were when we joined.
I would not be shocked to find that our democratic deficit in having an unelected second chamber would be enough to stall things if any member state fancied throwing a spanner in the works, and we’d be in a queue of applicant nations for some time.
If we want to join the EEA, the old problem that we’ll have to be a rule taker with limited ability to affect the rules rears its ugly head again.
Edit: I thought the reason we fought so hard to stop Brexit happening was because we knew how hard and long the process of getting back in would be. People breezily pretending we have agency in this matter, now, haven’t understood our true standing.
Brexit was really just one gigantic protest vote because nobody trusts government anymore, and anything that wrecks their plans is good enough. Some people argued over economics versus sovereignty, but what did they want “sovereignty” for or from? I don’t think it was really about Britain’s sovereignty from Europe but about the dissatisfied people rejecting the political classes. That’s my opinion on the matter.
Elite heists are the new bank robbery
because now labour is tory lite
Because most voters don’t know it, or aren’t able to admit it yet.
Frustrating though it is, I think Labour are treading the right line at the moment.
Because Labour is full of Tories who want the same things the Tory party does.
Because Starmer is a Tory, next question
Because about 1/3 of Labour voters are more concerned with getting rid of foreigners (the only true reason for Brexit, all others are fiction) than about being prosperous, and the Labour Party continues to suck up to them while losing other voters to other parties.
Because Brexit is a death cult. They will never admit it was a bad idea.
They’re cowards.
The party has an identity crisis that’s been going on for far too long.
Blue Labour are basically just tories so why would they.
Because the people who voted brexit are still stupid
I mean i could sit here and psychoanalyse all day but it boils down to
– a brit knowing they fucked up and a brit admitting they fucked up are two dramatically different things
All the ones that were stoically Brexit are now just stoically ‘this would have worked if it wasn’t for ThE dEeP sTaTe’.
Brexit’s just another symptom of the fact this country is ill
Lol they want to win elections, not get up votes on twitter 😂
Not enough of them know/believe it yet.
When the Ukraine war is done and the oil and grain prices are back to sensible amounts, then it will become clear and obvious that the UK for some ‘uknown reason’ appears to be 10x worse off than everywhere else.
I always find it interesting, how the more radical remainers/rejoiners think we are gonna waltz back into the EU into a situation we had before or are still fighting the Referendum result. We won’t be getting a rebate, we won’t be getting immigration controls, we won’t be getting the veto or opt outs of policy, we won’t be able to keep our currency. Those things (i.e. full membership) will push a lot of people into voting against it and we won’t be able to re join without a referendum, that is with excluding issues like an undemocratic House of Lords.
No politician on Earth could effectively sell that as the best option to the majority of the British electorate, it just isn’t realistic. It just won’t fly with the media or many people over 30. We voted to leave with perhaps the best possible form of membership cultivated over decades to fit a large amount of what the public and UK Governments wanted. We will never get that back. I don’t see us ever rejoining in the next 40 years, under the current terms the EU will offer.
Best the rejoiners can do is accept joining the customs union or single market as their best option and focus on negotiating that type of deal and arguing for it with brexiteers, rather than outright rejoining. This is essentially what Starmer is after and imo is the best thing on the table for rejoiners. The more time that passes the less likely this is, particularly with things like Truss’s “bonfire of EU regulations”.
Gotta wait for all the crochetedly old goblins who voted for Brexit to die off before we have any chance.
If you were daft enough to believe that a Tory government would implement a change in your interests after five years of austerity then I don’t know what to say.
Please be careful around sharp objects and plastic carrier bags.
From personal experience:
My retired in-laws who have voted and campaigned for Labour for all their lives have voted Conservative in the last election. Why? Because they are Brexiteers and in love with Boris. In their mind, a vote for Labour is a vote to roll back Brexit. And they don’t want that.
Currently, they are unsure who to vote for: They hate the Conservatives for kicking out Boris, but do **not** trust Labour to leave Brexit alone. The slightest whiff of Brexit opposition will turn them away for years.
I expect this is the situation for many elderly Labour voters. If Labour declares a softening position, they will lose them and therefore the next election. It’s a bit of a balancing act.
Because they’re trying to appeal to racist old people in the north. Those people are basically the only ones either party cares about appealing to now.
48 comments
Yes, I’m pretty convinced that the vast majority of people understand that Brexit isn’t working for us. But we’re still pretty evenly split (probably 48% to 52%) between people who think it was never going to work, and those who think it has been mis-managed or even sabotaged by the EU/Remainers/deep state.
A Labour Party that declared that it would reverse “the will of the people” would be unelectable. We need to work with what we’ve got and start building consent on the right way to move forward. It’s going to be painful, frustrating and there’s no quick fix.
The EU is probably not interested in yet another special deal, for reasons that should be obvious.
The only thing that might tempt them back to the negotiation table is either a deal for complete single market membership (with all the benefits and all the obligations), or the specific agreements already proposed by the EU.
The reason for this is that the first would defuse the whole Northern Ireland issue altogether, the latter would imply a full implementation of the Northern Ireland Protocol on terms that the EU proposed in the first place. Other than that, there will be no appetite whatsoever to engage further with the UK, as its political instability and resulting tendency towards treaty-breaking basically guarantees that any deal will be built on quicksand anyway. High risks and uncertain rewards.
The reality is that the EU’s price will be higher than it was, due to the perceived increase of risk. The author talks of mutual recognition of standards and qualification; the EU will want to talk about dynamic alignment. He proposes a myriad of deals; the EU will want an institutional framework with robust safeguards. He proposes a Swiss style deal with opt-outs and ins (“some immigration”); the EU will see this as “cakeism”. He speaks of closer ties with the EU, but the EU will think these ties will have to be expressed as legal and political obligations to have any reality. And before any of that can happen, the EU will insist on the UK upholding its existing obligations under the Withdrawal Agreement and the TCA.
Note that these are the same issues that haunted the Brexit negotiations and in many ways this is throwback to the early have-your-cake-and-eat-it deals of the May government, which the EU rejected out of hand. There is no indication that its position has shifted on any of these points.
Because of this, any electoral promises that fall between a normalization of relations by accepting the EU’s proposals while implementing the NIP on the one hand, and making a bid for re-accession into the single market on the other, are probably empty and undeliverable.
Pragmatism is good. A better relationship is easy. Moving towards a closer position in the legal and political sense will come at a cost, and there has to be a stable political consensus about going there. If that can not be delivered, then don’t bother. If it falls apart again because the wrecking crew find their way back into power, then that will only damage the UK’s reputation as a political and diplomatic partner further.
Because 2 things:
1. Those who voted for Brexit were generally more interested in what Europeans would lose than what they would gain.
2. Sunken cost fallicy.
Cos they’re scared of their own shadow at this point.
Because they’re damned if they do. People already dont trust them. You’ve got to remember how many people voted for brexit. Yes its a flop, but years on we’re still split in half.
Well Roy
It’s freedom of movement that’s the thing
You are never, ever going to get people to sign back up to that, and if you don’t sign up to that, you can’t be in the EEA and you can’t have frictionless trade
Without frictionless trade the best you can do is like what we have now, except with less cuntishness
The trouble is we had the sweetest of sweet deals with the EU, no amount of closer bonds will get anywhere close to what we had and what we lost.
The country will forever be economically, socially and culturally damaged, that’s just something we have to get used to and live with.
The few Brexiteers I’ve listened to in conversation in the last couple of years are on a different plane of existence to me to be honest.
All their conversation is based around how the EU are being unreasonable or playing games when it comes to things like checking passports or not giving out deals etc. Nothing is the fault of the government.
So that’s a no…
Because voters still don’t want a party that’s dedicated to joining the EU. There are a lot of loud voices for it, but it’s not translating to clear votes at elections.
Because of stubborn people who cant yet admit they were wrong.
As much as i want labor to call this i think it would harm their election chances.
Don’t blame Brexit, that will turn off voters. Blame the Tories for screwing it up – that will attract both Remain and Leave voters.
Labour will get annihilated by the Conservative’s media wing in the newspapers if they go anti-Brexit.
I think their best bet is to campaign on the fact that the Conservatives have fucked Brexit up. “A wasted opportunity”, “incompetent trade deal negotiations” etc
Blame EVERYTHING on the Conservatives handling of Brexit in the same way the Tories have turned blaming “the last Labour government” into a meme.
Until there is a public reckoning for the architects of the brexit shitshow, nothing will change.
All the members of the ERG, Farage, Boris etc need to hauled up, humiliated and ostracised and a price paid for the sack of shit, lies and undeliverable promises made. There was never a magical one brexit suits everyone scenario, but that was how it was sold and now those cunts and the clowns that supported them want to lay the entire blame for the fiasco at others doors, or that it can all be fixed and the benefits seen in 50-100 years time, when they are long dead and have raped the country completely for their mates and offspawn.
None want to be honest and admit its a mistake, they just want everyone to move on and accept that we are returning to the rose tinted era of being the dirty man of Europe.
….. Because all cunts.
The politicians misread the mood of people, showing yet again how out of touch they are. They seem to have thought that it would be resounding vote for remain.
more people voted to leave the EU that voted Tory in the last election that gave an 80 seat majority.
Did he say we can’t have a closer bond with Europe?
If Labour get into power they can.
Because that won’t appeal to Tory voters.
People have no idea what Brexit they voted for. Like ordering an unfamiliar meal from a restaurant, and no matter how shit it is you politely eat it because you’re embarrassed that you ordered something without knowing what it was.
>and the voters know it
Citation bloody needed
it’s obvious stinks to tory in the party.
I mean, do the voters know it? Have we had any data on the current opinion of Brexit?
Also, where are they located? If a safe seat is overwhelmingly remain but a contested seat is pro-brexit, they’d lose the election by calling for a closer bond with europe.
I love Corbyn. Except for his impact on Brexit and how that left the Labour party standing on it. His timid (and late) campaign for Remain (due to his long standing questions on the EU and its problems for UK workers) meant that Labour never created a solid remain identity within any party wing.
This leaves gutless Keir Starmer, Blair Lite v2.0 with basically no votes he can see in the (new) center of politics and no history within the party to push for it.
Also, I’m sure that he has Party Strategists and other Very Smart People telling him that its a Lib Dem issue in a lot of seats and they’ll never win by pivoting (in the short term).
Because its Keith starmers policy to not have an opinion on anything.
The moment Labour say “we think we should be in Europe” the Tories will pivot the whole debacle into being “Labour’s Fault” instead of the result of decades of Tory infighting. Unless people actively stop giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt or treating them like a comedy act or simply tolerating them, there will never be any possiblity of closer bonds with anybody let alone Europe.
There are two kinds of people: Leave and Remain. The Leave Camp bought the Seventeen Million Lies. The Remain Camp did not. It is not about the Seventeen Million Lies being mismanged, or sabotage, or the Will of the People, or anything like that. The Leave Lies were wrong. It does not work.
Nobody will ever build “consent” for reentering Europe in any way whatsoever because the Tories have built the Leave Lie into being a central tenet of British Life. Get use to being a pariah from a failed state.
It does not matter who was involved – the Americans or Russians – there was never any benefit to the Seventeen Million People who each bought their own separate lie. This is how economic hitmen work. This is what you get when Cold War Geopolitics is allowed to fester unhindered. This is what the Tory Party.
Either Labour destroys the Tory Party completely or there will never be any prospect of a relationship with Europe. And, no, it cannot be the Liberal Democrats because the Liberal Democracts will simply be dragged in and coopted on the side of the Tories because of their involvement in the Coalition and their promotion of the European Union Act which facilitated the debacle in the first place. Is that true or fair: probably not. But that is the divide and rule scenario the Tories have created and that is what anybody with any sense has to deal with.
The bottom line is that Labour can spend its time with witch hunts pandering to imaginary opinions and the Liberal Democrats can mess about trying to be anything other than a refuge for disgruntled Tories or they can both get off their well paid arses and do something practical about destroying the Tories. It is not a Party Political thing: it is an existential crisis for the UK. Either the Fraud of Brexit is punished or the UK is destined to be little more than a money laundering slum abolishing human rights and endlessly circling the toilet because nobody has the courage to just flush.
Brexit hasn’t even *really* happened yet, there are a bunch of long delayed checks at borders that still have not been implemented because they’ll slow things down even further, the Northern Ireland problem remains unsolved and the Tory government know this, so they keep kicking the can down the road. We have not got Brexit done.
There is no point arguing about whether it’s good or not or should be reversed or not until we’ve fully implemented it and the pain is horrifyingly obvious. Some are starting to see this now with passport lines and the inconvenience of moving around. Some have noticed impacts here and there but much worse is to come, the Brexit voting public and the Tories need to own that and come to their own collective realisation that they fucked up.
I’d argue it isn’t Labour who need to pivot their position, opening old wounds isn’t wise, it’s the Tories who need to admit it isn’t working and admit that to their voters, because until they do, nothing will change. Labour can seize on that opportunity when it occurs, but they can’t change the zeitgeist by themselves because it isn’t an issue of their making and in the polar world of politics, it’ll just push contrarian “will of the people” sovereignty obsessed voters further away from the party.
Or another vote. Actual democracy is fluid. If the will of the people has changed or evidence has come to light of detrimental core issues, we should be able to ballot for concensus. We are adults, I’m certain it means, we can change our minds. It would not be kneejerk policy either… Its been a few years and it’s a shit show for the general public methinks
>…why can’t Labour call for a closer bond with Europe?
It’s a vote loser. The Tories will claim that they’re trying to reverse Brexit.
I, like Starmer, was a hardcore Remainer but that’s done for a generation.
Too many still believe in Brexit to make this a campaign issue.
There’s something that I’m finding slightly irritating about this discourse.
We’ve dicked the EU about for 5 years, even if we decide we want a closer bond with Europe, it’s not really up to us what that bond will look like.
It will depend entirely upon what the EU is willing to put on the table. It will not be as good an offer as was available when we were still a member, like the all UK backstop (and there’s no procedure for the leaders of opposition parties to find out from the EU what they might be prepared to offer, so them committing to anything solid would be foolhardy).
I think there’s still a streak of British exceptionalism in this, that believes just because we, the British, are coming to our senses, the EU is going to suddenly welcome us back with open arms, when they’ll probably not.
We will need to act in good faith with our current arrangements, and use the bodies that have been created to find non-sabre-rattling methods of dealing with the issues that Brexit has caused, before they’ll entertain any further rapprochement.
Should we attempt to re-apply, the accession process will be fairly long and bruising, the acquis as they exist now are much stricter than they were when we joined.
I would not be shocked to find that our democratic deficit in having an unelected second chamber would be enough to stall things if any member state fancied throwing a spanner in the works, and we’d be in a queue of applicant nations for some time.
If we want to join the EEA, the old problem that we’ll have to be a rule taker with limited ability to affect the rules rears its ugly head again.
Edit: I thought the reason we fought so hard to stop Brexit happening was because we knew how hard and long the process of getting back in would be. People breezily pretending we have agency in this matter, now, haven’t understood our true standing.
Brexit was really just one gigantic protest vote because nobody trusts government anymore, and anything that wrecks their plans is good enough. Some people argued over economics versus sovereignty, but what did they want “sovereignty” for or from? I don’t think it was really about Britain’s sovereignty from Europe but about the dissatisfied people rejecting the political classes. That’s my opinion on the matter.
Elite heists are the new bank robbery
because now labour is tory lite
Because most voters don’t know it, or aren’t able to admit it yet.
Frustrating though it is, I think Labour are treading the right line at the moment.
Because Labour is full of Tories who want the same things the Tory party does.
Because Starmer is a Tory, next question
Because about 1/3 of Labour voters are more concerned with getting rid of foreigners (the only true reason for Brexit, all others are fiction) than about being prosperous, and the Labour Party continues to suck up to them while losing other voters to other parties.
Because Brexit is a death cult. They will never admit it was a bad idea.
They’re cowards.
The party has an identity crisis that’s been going on for far too long.
Blue Labour are basically just tories so why would they.
Because the people who voted brexit are still stupid
I mean i could sit here and psychoanalyse all day but it boils down to
– a brit knowing they fucked up and a brit admitting they fucked up are two dramatically different things
All the ones that were stoically Brexit are now just stoically ‘this would have worked if it wasn’t for ThE dEeP sTaTe’.
Brexit’s just another symptom of the fact this country is ill
Lol they want to win elections, not get up votes on twitter 😂
Not enough of them know/believe it yet.
When the Ukraine war is done and the oil and grain prices are back to sensible amounts, then it will become clear and obvious that the UK for some ‘uknown reason’ appears to be 10x worse off than everywhere else.
I always find it interesting, how the more radical remainers/rejoiners think we are gonna waltz back into the EU into a situation we had before or are still fighting the Referendum result. We won’t be getting a rebate, we won’t be getting immigration controls, we won’t be getting the veto or opt outs of policy, we won’t be able to keep our currency. Those things (i.e. full membership) will push a lot of people into voting against it and we won’t be able to re join without a referendum, that is with excluding issues like an undemocratic House of Lords.
No politician on Earth could effectively sell that as the best option to the majority of the British electorate, it just isn’t realistic. It just won’t fly with the media or many people over 30. We voted to leave with perhaps the best possible form of membership cultivated over decades to fit a large amount of what the public and UK Governments wanted. We will never get that back. I don’t see us ever rejoining in the next 40 years, under the current terms the EU will offer.
Best the rejoiners can do is accept joining the customs union or single market as their best option and focus on negotiating that type of deal and arguing for it with brexiteers, rather than outright rejoining. This is essentially what Starmer is after and imo is the best thing on the table for rejoiners. The more time that passes the less likely this is, particularly with things like Truss’s “bonfire of EU regulations”.
Gotta wait for all the crochetedly old goblins who voted for Brexit to die off before we have any chance.
If you were daft enough to believe that a Tory government would implement a change in your interests after five years of austerity then I don’t know what to say.
Please be careful around sharp objects and plastic carrier bags.
From personal experience:
My retired in-laws who have voted and campaigned for Labour for all their lives have voted Conservative in the last election. Why? Because they are Brexiteers and in love with Boris. In their mind, a vote for Labour is a vote to roll back Brexit. And they don’t want that.
Currently, they are unsure who to vote for: They hate the Conservatives for kicking out Boris, but do **not** trust Labour to leave Brexit alone. The slightest whiff of Brexit opposition will turn them away for years.
I expect this is the situation for many elderly Labour voters. If Labour declares a softening position, they will lose them and therefore the next election. It’s a bit of a balancing act.
Because they’re trying to appeal to racist old people in the north. Those people are basically the only ones either party cares about appealing to now.