Not good enough. These energy companies are wild. They need to be brought into public ownership.
Urgh far too radical
Are you paid by them? I swear the this is the third Kier article you’ve out put up in a few hours.
Given his flip flopping on pledges and his refusal to stand on the picket line, let alone allow any MP’s to do so, I’ll believe when I see it.
*And even if he does*, so what? More people are being shafted by energy and water bills than rail fares, if there going to do that, they may as well do all three.
Read into that article what you will, but I see nowhere in it where Starmer states that Labour will nationalise rail. He is very careful with his words but he does not say Labour will nationalise the rail networks. So I think this headline is very misleading
But Energy is already party nationalised in the UK by France as EDF is a France state owned company . That’s the just the most obvious one not counting the Sovereign Wealth Funds of China, Singapore, Saudi etc that own pieces of energy companies that operate in the uk.
Probably sensible. Rail can be done as licences expire . Energy will cost a fortune.
From reading this, I get the impression they say they will drop this for now, not that they will never consider this in the future…
[deleted]
I use 2 of these things daily. I barely use the other one.
Thank god for nationalised rail…
There’s a bit of simplicity to some comments on this issue, nationalisation isn’t a broad brush that can just be waved over industries. Different industries are more/less suited to it.
As much as I’d love in particular to see water brought back in house, where their behaviour in terms of waste water dumping and profiteering is very bad, it’s just not viable at the moment. Any borrowing is going to be scrutinised highly as rates are rising.
Electricity is really a no go, the cost would be very high and their margins are already low. The issue is supply predominantly. Many energy companies are just middlemen that give customers a public face and have nothing to do with generation while charging marginal profits. We really don’t want to be spooking private investment right now when we need supply expansion.
Rail however can be done fairly easily due to the franchising model by allowing existing provider’s contracts to run down and replacing with a public provider. Infrastructure via Network Rail is still publically owned/maintained anyway, its really just buying out the rolling stock that’s left.
Frustratingly Starmer’s right, it’s the old don’t interrupt your enemy whilst they are making an error. Rail’s the simplest to do and starting a spat over nationalising water or energy whilst the Conservatives are infighting and proposing unfunded spending would be a bad move.
I honestly can’t even be bothered to read into it, but the energy companies would have been a HUGE vote winner regardless of feasibility. Let’s hope rail is a close second.
This is changing every 5 minutes atm, wtf is happening
I don’t know what’s stopping the government from not raising the energy cap, potentially causing some companies to fold at which point they can step in with at least a quasi-nationalisation passing off all or a share at cost.
Companies should not be profiting while energy bills are soaring
I understand how something would go from national to private ownership..how does it go back the other way though? Genuinely curious..
I’d say fuck rail deal with energy and water the bastards charging us in excess of £1000 a year if not more and council tax only costs around £220 for the fucking year. Hell rent works out cheaper and i don’t pay rent (until UC fucks that up).
He’s a Tory
Great! I absolutely love watching endless adverts for energy companies, and the choice of one water company locally is a wonderful example of the free market.
Trying to imagine a world where my gas supplier doesn’t have aquatic branding and a chirpy chatbot.
Can’t believe some people would rather have one supplier with zero advertising spend and a single tariff for everyone. Ugh.
Didn’t I just read somewhere that labour pledged not to nationalise anything?!
At least it’s progress in the right direction. Kier is a Twit though
I don’t have a choice who I buy water from. If I can’t choose then it feels wrong to not be nationalised. This isn’t perfect but it is still progress so I can only be so upset.
I don’t get why people see nationalisation as a bad thing? They can still be ‘proper capitalist companies’ running for profit, generating funds, making a few people very rich whilst also bolstering government purses with whatever is left over (as our governments love to seem to operate), but also introduces the incentive to turn this profit towards improving infrastructure and accessibility of vital services as a political weight to swing around when they need some public favour.
basic essentials should not be for profit…
As it is impossible to stop, I can’t wait until the truth is out, and Starmer sells everything. The establishment will only escape the misery of the coming catastrophe if they have vast amounts of money. This country is finished. Those at the top of the Labour party will be grandly rewarded.
Gotta have something to campaign for next time I guess
Even if Labour were to nationalise things there’s nothing to stop the Tories clawing their way back into power 5-10 years later so they can inevitably sell everything off again at bargain basement prices to their mates.
Why does it feel like he’s just focus grouping after each announcement and then limit testing
Cunning like the fox. That way it won’t seem as much of a u turn when he drops rail nationalisation a little….. *further down the line*. Mwwwahaha.
Starmer showing his Tory colours I see. That didn’t take long to come out in the wash.
I bet there is no actual plan beyond saying those words or by nationalise he really means privatise it more but tax payers pick up the operating losses.
I read we give 180 million a year to the French government just for EDF energy alone. That’s pretty crazy, surely we could be investing that on our own energy?
Look I think we should nationalise any public utility.
But jesus keir I think energy may just be a bit more of a pressing issue than rail, ya know with the energy crisis and the fact we are all gonna drown/starve/burn in like 50 years.
My father was a senior executive at British Rail 1972-1995. State ownership was not a blissful period under either party. The Department of Transport interfered, took profits and spent them on roads and starved BR of internal investment. Board appointees were political and if one turned out to be good, it was luck.
I would actually vote Labour if they renationalised everything the Tories sold off but banned strike action.
Better to do some good than aim for something that’s not worth doing (energy) given it would be a poor investment.
Water for profit is an idea so stupid, Nadine Dorries could have came up with it
None of them will really change much. All three are defacto state-entities because price caps just bring the government into everything.
1) Rail – My back of napkin maths shows that even if all profit was removed from rail services, we would still not be able to do above-inflation pay rises. Pre-pandemic, 25% of a ticket went to staff wages. 2% went to profit. Inflation is at around 10% so you’d need 2.5% points of total revenue to go toward staff wages. This is of course bgger than the 2% profit. Furthermore, revenue has decreased as a result of the pandemic, and will not increase to normal levels ofr a long time. This means revenue gets squeezed by staff wages stay the same, so they increase their proportion of the revenue. This is why the rail companies need to sack some staff. Nationalisation will not fix this issue and that’s before we get to the downsides of nationalisation.
2) Water – Privatisation brought record investment and lower bills. The problem with water has always been poor regulation and governments are never that interested in investing in water pre-privatisation. Nationalisation won’t fix regulation issues and will just mean less investment into infrastructure, which we will pay for in the long-term. Countries with nationalised water are from milk and honey.
3) Energy – I mean, of course nationalisation of retail suppliers will not fix global energy prices.
Labour started off so strong and now as they attempt to broaden their appeal to fence conservative voters they are (yet again) moving away from the policies that made them popular in the first place
37 comments
Not good enough. These energy companies are wild. They need to be brought into public ownership.
Urgh far too radical
Are you paid by them? I swear the this is the third Kier article you’ve out put up in a few hours.
Given his flip flopping on pledges and his refusal to stand on the picket line, let alone allow any MP’s to do so, I’ll believe when I see it.
*And even if he does*, so what? More people are being shafted by energy and water bills than rail fares, if there going to do that, they may as well do all three.
Read into that article what you will, but I see nowhere in it where Starmer states that Labour will nationalise rail. He is very careful with his words but he does not say Labour will nationalise the rail networks. So I think this headline is very misleading
But Energy is already party nationalised in the UK by France as EDF is a France state owned company . That’s the just the most obvious one not counting the Sovereign Wealth Funds of China, Singapore, Saudi etc that own pieces of energy companies that operate in the uk.
Probably sensible. Rail can be done as licences expire . Energy will cost a fortune.
From reading this, I get the impression they say they will drop this for now, not that they will never consider this in the future…
[deleted]
I use 2 of these things daily. I barely use the other one.
Thank god for nationalised rail…
There’s a bit of simplicity to some comments on this issue, nationalisation isn’t a broad brush that can just be waved over industries. Different industries are more/less suited to it.
As much as I’d love in particular to see water brought back in house, where their behaviour in terms of waste water dumping and profiteering is very bad, it’s just not viable at the moment. Any borrowing is going to be scrutinised highly as rates are rising.
Electricity is really a no go, the cost would be very high and their margins are already low. The issue is supply predominantly. Many energy companies are just middlemen that give customers a public face and have nothing to do with generation while charging marginal profits. We really don’t want to be spooking private investment right now when we need supply expansion.
Rail however can be done fairly easily due to the franchising model by allowing existing provider’s contracts to run down and replacing with a public provider. Infrastructure via Network Rail is still publically owned/maintained anyway, its really just buying out the rolling stock that’s left.
Frustratingly Starmer’s right, it’s the old don’t interrupt your enemy whilst they are making an error. Rail’s the simplest to do and starting a spat over nationalising water or energy whilst the Conservatives are infighting and proposing unfunded spending would be a bad move.
I honestly can’t even be bothered to read into it, but the energy companies would have been a HUGE vote winner regardless of feasibility. Let’s hope rail is a close second.
This is changing every 5 minutes atm, wtf is happening
I don’t know what’s stopping the government from not raising the energy cap, potentially causing some companies to fold at which point they can step in with at least a quasi-nationalisation passing off all or a share at cost.
Companies should not be profiting while energy bills are soaring
I understand how something would go from national to private ownership..how does it go back the other way though? Genuinely curious..
I’d say fuck rail deal with energy and water the bastards charging us in excess of £1000 a year if not more and council tax only costs around £220 for the fucking year. Hell rent works out cheaper and i don’t pay rent (until UC fucks that up).
He’s a Tory
Great! I absolutely love watching endless adverts for energy companies, and the choice of one water company locally is a wonderful example of the free market.
Trying to imagine a world where my gas supplier doesn’t have aquatic branding and a chirpy chatbot.
Can’t believe some people would rather have one supplier with zero advertising spend and a single tariff for everyone. Ugh.
Didn’t I just read somewhere that labour pledged not to nationalise anything?!
At least it’s progress in the right direction. Kier is a Twit though
I don’t have a choice who I buy water from. If I can’t choose then it feels wrong to not be nationalised. This isn’t perfect but it is still progress so I can only be so upset.
I don’t get why people see nationalisation as a bad thing? They can still be ‘proper capitalist companies’ running for profit, generating funds, making a few people very rich whilst also bolstering government purses with whatever is left over (as our governments love to seem to operate), but also introduces the incentive to turn this profit towards improving infrastructure and accessibility of vital services as a political weight to swing around when they need some public favour.
basic essentials should not be for profit…
As it is impossible to stop, I can’t wait until the truth is out, and Starmer sells everything. The establishment will only escape the misery of the coming catastrophe if they have vast amounts of money. This country is finished. Those at the top of the Labour party will be grandly rewarded.
Gotta have something to campaign for next time I guess
Even if Labour were to nationalise things there’s nothing to stop the Tories clawing their way back into power 5-10 years later so they can inevitably sell everything off again at bargain basement prices to their mates.
Why does it feel like he’s just focus grouping after each announcement and then limit testing
Cunning like the fox. That way it won’t seem as much of a u turn when he drops rail nationalisation a little….. *further down the line*. Mwwwahaha.
Starmer showing his Tory colours I see. That didn’t take long to come out in the wash.
I bet there is no actual plan beyond saying those words or by nationalise he really means privatise it more but tax payers pick up the operating losses.
I read we give 180 million a year to the French government just for EDF energy alone. That’s pretty crazy, surely we could be investing that on our own energy?
Look I think we should nationalise any public utility.
But jesus keir I think energy may just be a bit more of a pressing issue than rail, ya know with the energy crisis and the fact we are all gonna drown/starve/burn in like 50 years.
My father was a senior executive at British Rail 1972-1995. State ownership was not a blissful period under either party. The Department of Transport interfered, took profits and spent them on roads and starved BR of internal investment. Board appointees were political and if one turned out to be good, it was luck.
I would actually vote Labour if they renationalised everything the Tories sold off but banned strike action.
Better to do some good than aim for something that’s not worth doing (energy) given it would be a poor investment.
Water for profit is an idea so stupid, Nadine Dorries could have came up with it
None of them will really change much. All three are defacto state-entities because price caps just bring the government into everything.
1) Rail – My back of napkin maths shows that even if all profit was removed from rail services, we would still not be able to do above-inflation pay rises. Pre-pandemic, 25% of a ticket went to staff wages. 2% went to profit. Inflation is at around 10% so you’d need 2.5% points of total revenue to go toward staff wages. This is of course bgger than the 2% profit. Furthermore, revenue has decreased as a result of the pandemic, and will not increase to normal levels ofr a long time. This means revenue gets squeezed by staff wages stay the same, so they increase their proportion of the revenue. This is why the rail companies need to sack some staff. Nationalisation will not fix this issue and that’s before we get to the downsides of nationalisation.
2) Water – Privatisation brought record investment and lower bills. The problem with water has always been poor regulation and governments are never that interested in investing in water pre-privatisation. Nationalisation won’t fix regulation issues and will just mean less investment into infrastructure, which we will pay for in the long-term. Countries with nationalised water are from milk and honey.
3) Energy – I mean, of course nationalisation of retail suppliers will not fix global energy prices.
Labour started off so strong and now as they attempt to broaden their appeal to fence conservative voters they are (yet again) moving away from the policies that made them popular in the first place