While the US system may be extortionately expensive, they at least get the job done. Both my partner and I have been to doctors for different things over the past year, and we’re often shrugged off. No tests, no specialists, just told to basically rest it off. We then end up going to the ER because the problems get worse.

This time my partner went to the ER because of foot pain that their GP said was nothing. My partner knows this is an old issue they have that needs a specific test to confirm/treat. The ER took an x-ray and said they didn’t see anything and sent them home. When they tried to explain what test was needed to treat it, again, they were told no and to just deal with the pain.

This absolutely boggles my mind. It’s extremely frustrating that the doctors here seem to do the bare minimum, even if that means not helping the patient at all. Sorry to rant, we just keep running into this problem whereas we never did in the US.

**Edit**: For the people saying “a test wouldn’t fix it”: my partner needs a boot to steady the foot+ankle and let it heal. That’s what they got in the past and it’s always worked. Now they’re in pain and it’ll take much longer, and hopefully won’t get worse… The doctor wouldn’t give them the boot without proof that they needed it, which we needed the specific test for.

Also for the people saying it costs an arm and a leg in the US, I’m aware. We had very good insurance there and so never had to pay much to go to the doctor/hospital. I didn’t mind paying 200-1000NOK if it means we got the problem fixed. But I’m sure if we had to go through cancer treatment or something else it would be a whole different story, as I hear you can go bankrupt for that in the US even with good insurance and savings. In contrast, though, it sounds like people here may be refused or delayed treatment due to the bureaucratic system. Hard to pick your poison in that kind of situation: death by debt or waiting.

We’ll look for a new GP on [legelisten.no](http://legelisten.no/), tusen takk for the suggestion.

43 comments

  1. I mean, you can go to private places in Norway as well. The public health system is running on little money and time and can’t afford to do any tests if they don’t seem necessary (to the actual doctor). If you want to go to a doctor that will do what you want, then go somewhere private, it’s not hard

  4. What you are experiencing is healthcare which is not for profit, so you’re not treated as a customer. You should also learn to present the issue well and factually, so the doctor can try to understand what may be wrong, and determine whether a test is necessary, and what treatment would be effective (if any). You don’t show up to the ER and demand some test.

    If your partner had the same foot pain before, and it stopped, they must certainly be aware of any treatment they received at the time, and be able to explain that to the doctor.

    If they have been diagnosed with something which has a known treatment – why on earth do you not explain that to the doctor? If the diagnosis is known, a test is not needed.

    A test doesn’t treat anything, and if the issue/diagnosis is known, a test is useless, but for wasting time and money.

    If the known issue doesn’t have a treatment other than rest/wait it out/keep it still or whatever, which I’m sure your partner knows already, since they have had it before, why not explain it to the doctor? Perhaps because there is no other treatment?

    It seems like being tested is what you want, even though the health professionals us tax payers pay for don’t find it necessary (except for the x-ray, which I can’t understand that they did if it was explained to them what the issue is). I’m sure DrDropin, Volvat or similar private clinics would love to provide that service for you. You can also buy ibuprofen and paracetamol, and pain treating creams such as Voltarol, without a prescription.

  6. What I have heard of Americans is that the do way too many tests and patients are very demanding.
    Listen to your doctor, they do appropriate testing. All the testing is US is just a waste of money.

  8. You are used to be tested and get billed for anything and everything

    Here the system works for peoples benefit not corporations 🤨

  9. I hear you, however I’m unsure if the opposite approach is better. I received treatment in Switzerland which has a 100% private healthcare model, and in my experience Drs. over there tend to overprescribe. I was told I needed surgery for a nerve issue I was facing, and got prescribed about 3 months of physiotherapy. Later another Dr. (in Germany) told me that the surgery I was told I needed was not the correct surgery for my problem and that the physiotherapy was completely unnecessary.

    I’m not sure what is worse , to not to get treatment I need or to get treatment I don’t need. But I’d tend to err on the conservative side, especially in the case of non life threatening or mild conditions. After all iatrogenesis is a thing: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis).

  10. Hard to say anything for sure here, so will just mention a couple of points or possibilities:

    * If you’re not happy with your GP, change until you find one you’re happy with.
    * For vague and not life-threatening conditions, a for-profit system encourages any kind of treatment because it gives them your insurance payout. Universal healthcare discourages it, hence “rest it off” is more common. Outcomes may on average be the same. If you look at population health stats for the USA vs Norway, it’s not a win for USA.
    * Similarly, getting help for vague conditions might require approaching the system and the people in it with a different tone. Being perceived as demanding and arrogant will probably not work in your favour. Not sure if that applies here, but the tone of the post coupled with general cultural differences between Americans and Norwegians makes me want to mention it as a possibility.
    * Private healthcare options and health insurance exist. The insurance route might not be viable for the pre-existing foot pain issue.

  11. I’ve found the exact opposite. They actually thoroughly research my issues and run lots of tests so as to ensure I don’t have to come back. My experience in the US was them throwing drugs at me and throwing me out the door. Even the so-called “best” doctors in NYC.

  12. It is possible that you have a GP (fastlege) that is not very good or doesn’t understand you. In that case you should change GP.

    What kind of treatment are you actually looking for for the foot? The test itself will obviously not make the food better.

  13. (My experience with public health care is in Canada, not Norway.)

    I know a doctor whose research specialty (in the Family Medicine department at a University) is to investigate all the statistical correlations between frequency of testing and outcomes. Made-up example (it’s not MY area of expertise): Suppose the stats show that women (age 30-50) who have pap smears every other year have the same cervical cancer diagnosis/outcomes as women who have annual tests. Then the system would recommend that women in that age range only have pap smears every second year unless there are additional risk factors.

    The research shows that the level of over-testing for ineffectual results in the US healthcare system is astounding.

    These types of stats help to govern the medical advice that people get. (Making up numbers again:) If 95% of similar cases of foot-pain resolve themselves within two weeks without medical intervention, and only 1% end up in the ER, then the appropriate advice at the first visit should always be to rest and do nothing. Then if it persists and/or gets worse, then YOU must also be persistent/diligent about following up with additional medical visits and the treatment will usually be escalated appropriately.

  14. This sounds like a culture difference. You come from the US system where regular preventive health checkups are normal with a battery of tests – even for things you have no sympthoms for.

    That is not how it works in Norway, the doctor take the test the doctor needs to diagnose you. If the doctor knows the diagnosis, no test is neccesary.

    And also, tests do not treat anything, so no wonder the ER told the person no.

    All of that said, you are free to take as many unneccesary tests you’d like, just do it at a private hospital and pay for it yourself.

  15. Go back to the GP if problems persists? That’s what I do.

    GPs go by guidelines on when they can send you to a specialist. Because of the GP shortage and specialists are hard pressed for time, they won’t send you immediately for normal/low pri cases.

    In those cases I either have to wait, use insurance, or pay myself (about 1900kr for a specialist appointment). I’ve paid privately several times, for quicker access to ENT specialists. But I would have had it for free eventually (about two months waiting time)

  17. So for the old issue with foot they took your money but they didnt fix it?
    Seems like the outcome is same in both instances

  19. A lot of /r/copium on this thread.

    Yes, it kinda sucks for non-life-threatening issues. I was denied a simple surgery to not have my broken collarbone fuse in the wrong place after a fracture.

    Is it an issue now? Not really, but the shortening of the bone due to overlap after fracture will cause posture issues over the years. What they saved now by not doing the surgery they’ll spend 10-fold in 20 years for physio 🤦‍♂️

    + I had to pay for all appointments and xrays I had.

    Would I rather not pay taxes into healthcare? Potentially.

  20. Ehm so as someone who broke his leg in the USA while living there vs the 8 yes 8 surgeries I have had in Norway. The us hospital was horrible all over the place. Until I started paying extra for healthcare like super expensive one. The 2 doctors I went to in the US even diagnosed me wrong. The Norwegian doctor I went to did not.

    You hit a one in a million example so this isn’t typical at all. Public is public it’s not bad but amazing no. Private ones are great but sure pay like a madman.

    5 days for me in the us hospital 77k dollar. 2 weeks in Norway 50 dollars

  21. I haven’t had issues for physical illness but mental healthcare sucks here. I have private insurance through work and I am looking into getting my girlfriend covered in it.

  24. I got in a bar fight once and police drove me to the ER with what I thought was a broken nose. The two nurses said I looked fine. I drunkenly thanked them, and asked, ‘but what about my nose. Is it broken?’ Maybe it is, maybe not, but there’s not anything we can do if it is. They asked me if I had trouble breathing through it, which I hadn’t. Then they sent me home. I thought they’d at least confirm it with an x-ray. But why? Nothing they could do

  25. I’m tax resident of the Kingdom of Norway, and yeah, the health system here has issues. The main problem is that it’s horribly understaffed, so they tend to recommend you to take Paracet send you home unless it looks that you’ll die without medical assistance.

    That said, the few times I (or my family) had a real need of medical assistance it was always very effective. And I think that for us, foreigners, it sometimes seem that Norwegian doctors do not care, because we come from countries where medicine is business and doctors tend to overtest and overprescribe, and we got used to it.

    Also, don’t forget, that Norway has private clinics. Compared to US they are still pretty cheap. So you have choice.

  26. Let me throw out there that there are amazing GP’s as well! I’ve been struggling with abdominal pain since Monday, and finally decided to see my GP today.

    I went in fully expecting to be told it was something I ate, and to wait it out, because I Had actually eaten something new on Monday. Aka I was mainly going there for “how do I make this heal quickly”. GP went a completely different way, and 3 hours later I was getting an ultrasound at the hospital (without getting admitted)! Which did reveal the cause, and it wasn’t food or pregnancy related

  27. Seems to be luck of the draw whether you get a good doctor or good treatment.

    I know of people who’ve had very good treatment with no issues, including for cancer, at all but also others who had terrible treatment, including what would be considered malpractice by ignorance or just plain old negligence. I’ve also seen cases like this in the news.

    Personally, I had good treatment as a child but it’s only now recently that I’ve been back to a doctor in Norway. I’ve had skin cancer as have most of my family and have had yearly screenings, some of which have resulted in additional biopsy/removal. When I brought this up after moving here and seeing a doctor for the first time, I was told I could do the screening myself and “look in the mirror to check your back”. I get that there’s long waits for specialists, but that shocked me. I’m not a dermatologist so I don’t know what to look for (my previous dermatologists all used a special tool to check moles, growths, etc), I can only speculate if I see something that looks concerning to my untrained eye. Aside from that, I must admit that I had no problem getting a prescription continued after moving here.

  28. It’s totally fair, I think it’s good that you bring up these points. It’s the only way we can shine a light on issues. When you live with it every day you can get blind to the system’s flaws.

  30. I’ve had no issues here in Norway but 1 time, moved here from Sweden.
    Last year I had an ear infection, went to the ER, got eardrops to combat the infection and it got better.
    About a monthish ago I got another ear infection, this time I booked a time at my gp, he said it wasn’t an ear infection, I argued about it (I’m an ear infection kid, had too many to count over the years) saying I know the pain, he said he understood but in his opiniok it wasn’t an ear infection. I gave up, and asked if I could get some stronger painkillers because the ones from the pharmacy wasnt cutting it. Which i thankfully got.
    The ear infection got better about a week later.
    Since then I’ve been back once to run some bloodtests. So other than the 1 time I feel like the system is just as good as I’m used to in Sweden.

  31. That is not my experience, my doctor follows upand does tests. Like in any situation it probably varies from doctor to doctor.

  32. In the US doctors ignored my back pain due to my age for 3 years. I finally convinced them to do as n MRI when I developed impotence at the age of 22. I ultimately needed a quadruple discectomy. I still have slmost no feeling in my left foot and require prescription medications to have a normal sex life at the age of 32. So, no, the US healthcare system does not get the job done.

  33. Private clinic. I never go to public doctors or hospital anymore. Public heath care is shit. Yea its «free» but its shit. When i gave birth in 2020 there was about 5cm water on the floor ‘cause of a waterleak that has been there for several years. I work at a nursinghome and let me tell you, i will rather shoot myself than ever ending up in one. Several rooms doesnt have heating, or doorknobs…

    I have been to hospitals (visitted/followed friends and family) in Canada, Netherlands and Thailand. All so much better than in Norway. Norwegians just think/like to believe we have the best of the best.. And if you question that people get angry and defensive. Just look at this thread…

  34. I find the comments about how people’s GP are very strict on whether they would give people a recommendation for a specialist very interesting … My story is a little different.I came down with a very persistant UTI a couple of years ago – things got complicated because I was an exchange student in the UK, and spent a couple of times going back and forth to the doctor’s office there first, and went through two rounds of antibiotics. I was then scheduled for a ultrasound and received it within a week, just to be on the safe side since my family have a history of cancer. They found a kidney stone just chilling in my right kidney, but otherwise no issues.Then I go back to Norway for the holidays, however, the symptoms of the UTI persists … I go to see my GP. She puts me on another round of antibiotics, but also schedules a CT-scan, again, just to be safe.

    Now, the thing is – what she did was send out a recommendation on my behalf, not only to the public hospitals, but also the private clinics, and I would get an appointment wherever there was an available slot first. A spot opened up at a private clinic less than a week later. Because I had a recommendation from a GP, I only had to pay 250 NOK, not full price, for the CT-scan.

    Right after I had a strong allergic reaction the antibiotics, and had to see ANOTHER GP in a different part of Norway – once again, they decided to be better safe than sorry, and sent me by ambulance to the hospital, in case I was going septic because of the kidney stone. I told them I’d had a similar reaction to antibiotics once before, but they didn’t want to risk it. I spent four days in the hospital and had to have another CT taken which was checked by the urology department, who “in plenum” came to the conclusion that the kidney stone was, in their own words, “itty bitty” and posed no immediate threat. It was still “just” an allergic reaction and the fecking UTI …

    But the only thing I paid for at the hospital was a pepsi from the kiosk on my way out on the fourth day.The universal healtcare system isn’t perfect, and I know there are poor GPs, just like there are poor workers within every profession, but bloody hell … All that fuss at little to no cost over a UTI because they all – from the English doctors and the Norwegian ones, to the medical staff at the hospital – wanted to be better safe than sorry.

  35. Also foreigner in Norway. I agree, doctors here sometimes just seem not to care. There was a period when they wanted me to take paracetamol, no matter what the problem. Once even for a rash… Anyway, switch doctors until you find one that takes interest. You could also go to http://www.legelisten.no and check their reviews. Sometimes it’s worth to sign up to someone a little bit further away to get better treatment, e.g. in a slightly better district.

  36. You do know there is private healthcare available, right? Like just go there if you can’t get anything quickly sorted out. Also idk about you but everyone getting healthcare is better than only a few getting it, even if it’s a little slower.

  38. I have a reoccuring inflammation in my shin bone. My doctor told me to return when it had become permanent, and we could discuss sending me to a physical therapist. When healthcare is free, the quality declines because the doctors has more patients i guess.

  39. >When they tried to explain what test was needed to treat it, again, they were told no and to just deal with the pain.

    Not trying to be an ass here, but I don’t understand how a test can treat anything? Couldn’t you reference what medication/treatment you were prescribed last or any medical records?

    The ER usually have a lot of worse cases that they prioritize so they’ll usually send you home unless it’s really _really_ bad. If your GP doesn’t take you seriously you should really change and go to someone else. Doctors are not infallible, I’ve experienced being wrongly diagnosed myself.

    I’ve got a feeling that doctors usually take problems that have persisted for over a week seriously. But if it has only lasted a couple of days you’ll often get told to wait and see if it persists. I guess this is to try to lessen the burden on the healthcare system, and not prescribe unecessary drugs, as there are a lot of things that go over by itself.

  40. Yeah that seems to be the case. We’re among the very best worldwide if your life is in danger, but if not, you gotta push REALLY hard to get to specialists.

  41. My GP is a very emphatic and listening person, I feel I am lucky to have him, that are some of the best qualities you can expect from a GP here in Norway. I had several other GPs before and their standard was very low, they treated me only like a number.

    At least my GP listens and sends me to an MRI or other tests if the need is there (or if I explain why the issue could need it) but this doesn’t hide the deeper issue here, most GPs in Norway are not well enough prepared compared with other countries I have visited and they are sadly extremely overworked.

    I still think the bigger issue doesn’t lie on the GPs, they are just the entry point, the real issue here in Norway lies with the specialists, several of the ones me and my family have visited have been very unqualified compared with their pairs in other countries. Not every one of them is bad, I have found some excellent ones too, but sadly many are.

    I have suffered of some long lasting issues that have just been brushed away by Norwegian specialists and I have been lucky enough to get them treated successfully while visiting as a tourist abroad.

    Here is a typical example: Even simple medicines that can be bought over the counter in almost every single country on earth can’t be found in Norway, i.g., Buscopan (hyoscine butylbromide) that is used worldwide to help patients with IBS. When I told my kid’s specialist who suffers from the same issue as me that it helps a lot when you are having a pain crisis, he told me at point blank in my face that it wasn’t true and that no study backed that claim, completely ridiculous because it is a known fact that this medicine really helps with IBS related cramps.

    I have faced some other issues like this that I have been lucky enough to get help abroad after just been brushed away by Norwegian medical personal who had just told me that “I didn’t have anything”.

    The fact is that if you suffer from a long lasting issue, haven’t got better by the help provided in Norway and have the possibility to visit a good specialist in another country please give it a try (not necessarily the US, I have got excellent help for example in South America very cheap for my coin), it can be the difference between living healthy and without pain or living with pain and just be brushed away with the usual “don’t think about it and just take 2 Paracets”.

  42. I guess I shouldn’t have read the comments. 🤬

    You have the right to interpreter: if you have the hint that the message doesn’t come through or the words you’re using are misunderstood or could be used against your meaning, get an interpreter. As per your right, you explain to them, they translate for you.

  43. I’ve experienced health care in Ireland, the UK and Canada, and have now been living in Norway for 10 years. I agree with OP that the Norwegian healthcare system can be frustrating by comparison, but I also strongly agree with the other commenters who have suggested switching GPs until you find one who you like and who you feel will take you seriously. This took me some time, but I now have a doc whom I trust and it makes a world of difference. She actually listens to me when I have an appointment, and will refer me to the relevant specialist without me having to beg for it.

    Having said this, I do find the Norwegian system to be a bit careless at times. For instance, when I was miscarrying, went to the hospital, was patted on the arm, told to go home and “good luck”. Cut to me experiencing the most excruciating pain of my life for hours (physical and emotional) with no feeling of support or help. Not to mention the horrible experience of going through IVF at Rikshospitalet in Oslo where you’re made to feel like a piece of meat on a conveyor belt. Fucking scarred me for life.

    It’s not the worst healthcare system, but there’s a lot of room for improvement, is all I’m saying.

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