Oh Goody, A randomer on twiiter with a graph, get the fuck of twitter
A new class struggle, Home owners vs renters. Ireland European dream of rental for life is a disaster.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding but this is surely in absolutely no way a shocking statistic? If you are someone who is unable to cover the basics, odds are you of course don’t own a house.
And if you are someone who owns a house, especially with the market as it is, you are definitely earning a steady enough amount that you would be unlikely to be left in this situation unless you experienced a drastic change in circumstances.
While this is awful, I wouldn’t say it’s all that shocking, unless I am reading the graph wrong.
In order to be able to get a mortgage you have to be in a decent place economically. Those experiencing material deprivation are extremely unlikely to be able to get a mortgage. Now there might be some who managed to get a mortgage but faced difficulties later, but as a group those with mortgages must be more well off than renters.
That said, two parts of this are shocking to me. Firstly, the change in material deprivation among renters is atrocious. Secondly, the light blue line and the yellow line are now almost equal. This means that those who do not qualify for state supports with regards to rent are now just as bad off as those who do qualify.
This is like saying “people without food are more likely to be hungry”
I wouldn’t use the word “shocking” so much as the word “obvious”.
Classic case of correlation ≠ causation. If you can afford a down payment on a house you can pay for your basics.
It was decreasing for renters until covid struck. Obviously the poor were more heavily impacted by an economic shut down, and it’s on a downtrend now although we only have one year of data to suggest a downtrend post lockdown.
The positive is that across the board it has been decreasing which means the ability to pay for basic needs is becoming easier for everyone
Correlation ≠ causation, also, the trend held for tenets until 2019/2020… (covid obviously affecting those who are most likely to be renting more as they tend to work retail and hospitality)
Anyone who’s worked with eurostat/CSO on recent data can confirm this is a pretty predictable outcome given the affect covid has had on low/middle income households
The renter generation isn’t an Ireland exclusive thing you know, this is world wide pretty much
FFG’s Ireland.
[removed]
That is a mad misuse of data.
No labelled axis, no units, default graph format, no sample size.
Off to data jail with you.
Landlordism is a parasitic arrangement. No, landlords don’t do anything.
It’s kind of a vicious cycle, isn’t it? Housing costs are so astronomical that young people can only afford small apartments. And wages not keeping up with inflation and increased living costs meant you can barely scrape by with what you have left.
The country is in shambles, a broken hap system being exploited (before you say it’s not, I personally know several people lying through their teeth on forms and what’s worse I know of someone that tried to fill a form out truthfully and the staff member advised them, “best not put that on the form” and also “say your boyfriend is your ex and won’t live with you and if you’re ever caught just say he’s visiting don’t put down his wages on the form”). Landlords exploiting a broken system. Middle class people being landlords and profiting off the working class and then snubbing their nose at them. Council houses need to be built and hap needs to be abolished because it’s being abused by all corners of the market and is a massive drain on tax payers money. I literally changed jobs for a pay rise leaving a job I loved for one that paid better because I know I won’t get a mortgage if I didn’t.
The most recent crazy scheme the government has entered is 25 year leases where they pay all maintenance and rent and all other associated charges for 25 years, then just hand back the property and have no asset to show for it on their balance sheet.
That’s just a truism, people who have less money are more lilkely to rent -> people who have less money are more likely to be in material deprivation -> people who rent are more likely to be in material deprivation
Anyone got a link to how we’re calculating y axis lads?
Several commenters have basically said, what’s the big deal, obviously homeowners are in a better financial situation than renters, that’s why they were able to afford a home. I posted this response in one thread but amplifying for visibility:
The devil is in the different trends over time.
The number of homeowners with a mortgage struggling to make ends meet dropped 80% from 2014 to 2021.
For homeowners without an outstanding loan, the cut was about 70%.
For renters who get assistance (social housing, HAP…not sure what else), the cut was 50%.
And for renters without any assistance…essentially no change.
Obviously we’re missing some context here including a verifiable source, but the story is clear — most people in Ireland are better off now than they were 7 years ago.
But if you rent on the open market, your circumstances haven’t changed in the last 7 years (or, more specifically, they got better for a while and then got worse, which has evened out in the end).
19 comments
Oh Goody, A randomer on twiiter with a graph, get the fuck of twitter
A new class struggle, Home owners vs renters. Ireland European dream of rental for life is a disaster.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding but this is surely in absolutely no way a shocking statistic? If you are someone who is unable to cover the basics, odds are you of course don’t own a house.
And if you are someone who owns a house, especially with the market as it is, you are definitely earning a steady enough amount that you would be unlikely to be left in this situation unless you experienced a drastic change in circumstances.
While this is awful, I wouldn’t say it’s all that shocking, unless I am reading the graph wrong.
In order to be able to get a mortgage you have to be in a decent place economically. Those experiencing material deprivation are extremely unlikely to be able to get a mortgage. Now there might be some who managed to get a mortgage but faced difficulties later, but as a group those with mortgages must be more well off than renters.
That said, two parts of this are shocking to me. Firstly, the change in material deprivation among renters is atrocious. Secondly, the light blue line and the yellow line are now almost equal. This means that those who do not qualify for state supports with regards to rent are now just as bad off as those who do qualify.
This is like saying “people without food are more likely to be hungry”
I wouldn’t use the word “shocking” so much as the word “obvious”.
Classic case of correlation ≠ causation. If you can afford a down payment on a house you can pay for your basics.
It was decreasing for renters until covid struck. Obviously the poor were more heavily impacted by an economic shut down, and it’s on a downtrend now although we only have one year of data to suggest a downtrend post lockdown.
The positive is that across the board it has been decreasing which means the ability to pay for basic needs is becoming easier for everyone
Correlation ≠ causation, also, the trend held for tenets until 2019/2020… (covid obviously affecting those who are most likely to be renting more as they tend to work retail and hospitality)
Anyone who’s worked with eurostat/CSO on recent data can confirm this is a pretty predictable outcome given the affect covid has had on low/middle income households
The renter generation isn’t an Ireland exclusive thing you know, this is world wide pretty much
FFG’s Ireland.
[removed]
That is a mad misuse of data.
No labelled axis, no units, default graph format, no sample size.
Off to data jail with you.
Landlordism is a parasitic arrangement. No, landlords don’t do anything.
It’s kind of a vicious cycle, isn’t it? Housing costs are so astronomical that young people can only afford small apartments. And wages not keeping up with inflation and increased living costs meant you can barely scrape by with what you have left.
The country is in shambles, a broken hap system being exploited (before you say it’s not, I personally know several people lying through their teeth on forms and what’s worse I know of someone that tried to fill a form out truthfully and the staff member advised them, “best not put that on the form” and also “say your boyfriend is your ex and won’t live with you and if you’re ever caught just say he’s visiting don’t put down his wages on the form”). Landlords exploiting a broken system. Middle class people being landlords and profiting off the working class and then snubbing their nose at them. Council houses need to be built and hap needs to be abolished because it’s being abused by all corners of the market and is a massive drain on tax payers money. I literally changed jobs for a pay rise leaving a job I loved for one that paid better because I know I won’t get a mortgage if I didn’t.
The most recent crazy scheme the government has entered is 25 year leases where they pay all maintenance and rent and all other associated charges for 25 years, then just hand back the property and have no asset to show for it on their balance sheet.
That’s just a truism, people who have less money are more lilkely to rent -> people who have less money are more likely to be in material deprivation -> people who rent are more likely to be in material deprivation
Anyone got a link to how we’re calculating y axis lads?
Several commenters have basically said, what’s the big deal, obviously homeowners are in a better financial situation than renters, that’s why they were able to afford a home. I posted this response in one thread but amplifying for visibility:
The devil is in the different trends over time.
The number of homeowners with a mortgage struggling to make ends meet dropped 80% from 2014 to 2021.
For homeowners without an outstanding loan, the cut was about 70%.
For renters who get assistance (social housing, HAP…not sure what else), the cut was 50%.
And for renters without any assistance…essentially no change.
Obviously we’re missing some context here including a verifiable source, but the story is clear — most people in Ireland are better off now than they were 7 years ago.
But if you rent on the open market, your circumstances haven’t changed in the last 7 years (or, more specifically, they got better for a while and then got worse, which has evened out in the end).