Yeah, and we claim the opposite – his naive attempts to pursue a dialogue with a country whose intentions to criminally misuse that dialogue are immoral.
> peace on acceptable conditions for Ukraine
At this time victory is the only acceptable for Ukraine. Too many lives gone, too many time spared and too high the feeling that victory is inevitable. Any other solution than forcing russia to capitulate feels like treason.
Narratives about US vs Beijing are ridiculous. It’s like reading russian articles about bipolar world. Europe is under direct attack of russian army, Ukraine is Europe. Not EU yet, but it’s European country. So if we speak about unity of Europe, why should se start from US or Beijing. None of them are direct cause of russian invasion, while putin is.
And Ukraine won’t be satisfied until putin get a fair trial for his orders. And he understands that too. So speaking to him is a really dumb idea, it’s not about morality, it’s about conflict of interests. The least places where Ukraine accepts putin after the war are prison or psychiatric facility, while putin obviously don’t want any of these.
France supports Ukraine militarily, economically and politically. There’s nothing wrong trying to resolve this issue diplomatically.
If Russia can be “convinced” to leave Ukraine, saving thousands of lives that would have been thrown in the meat-grinder to make them leave, it’s worth it.
I don’t care if the chance is 1%, it’s worth being taken. It’s not like the diplomatic talks are preventing support.
I actually think it’s a good thing that Macron is keeping lines of communication open. The president of the US had the red phone during the Cold War for the same reason.
At this point I want to remind everyone that Zelensky himself plead Macron to call Putin on 24th of february.
It may have been mistaken efforts but it was right and from what I’ve heard he shouldn’t have moral doubts about that.
>The job of a diplomat is to talk to everybody and particularly to the people we disagree with
This.
Is Putin calling Macron? Probably no. So Marcon’s negotiation position is “Please, please, please”.
I think peace talks are the only real solution.
Otherwise we will face a conflict that could potentially last for years or even decades and an economic crisis that could ruin the Euro and many European economies.
When it comes to peace deals, realistically speaking both sides will need to make concessions.
Putin has proved many times his words mean shit.
France is behind Latvia and Estonia when it comes to weapons delivered and planned to be delivered.
So I’m gonna press doubt here on Macrons statements.
the problem with talking with that regime, is that their word means nothing. It’s been proven time and time again.
Even prior to the invasion we should know we are dealing with a criminal mindset.
they shipped in asylum seekers from the ME in the depths of winter just to use their suffering as a pawn to manipulate western values.
that is just one example of their scumbagness.
There is no harm in talking – provided it really is no harm, so for example Macron won’t hesitate to provide aid to Ukraine in the obviously mistaken hopes that this somehow helps with the diplomacy. From what I have seen, I don’t think Macron talking to Putin has in any way lessened his commitment, perhaps even the opposite. If he doesn’t talk to Putin, he might think there is some sort of more “reasonable” cause or misunderstanding that is in part making Putin do what he does. If he talks to Putin and hears Putin’s madman ranting, he will instead realize that there is nothing reasonable whatsoever about anything Putin does.
The main downside I see with talking with Putin might be that it could create the impression on Putin that he still hasn’t crossed enough lines and isn’t isolated when some people still are willing to talk to him. Leaving him completely alone might make it finally sink in.
Fuckin looser. Like a dog licking his own ass, afraid of it’s own shadow.
Easy for him to “defend dialogue”, when its not his people that are subjected to genocide, erasure of culture, and mass rapes and kindaping of children.
Jesus Christ France… when will you learn that there is no reasoning with that faschist manlet. How many times did they lie right into your face? How many times did they tell that noooo they will not invade Ukraine? How many times did they fuck the whole region over and over and you STILL try to give Putin a chance?
The larger European countries will talk with russia. Im sure were also in contact behind the scenes. There is simply no way to isolate a country that shares the borders with multiple European countries. This isn’t North korea
Putin making a fool out of Macron, round 2.
Ruzzia and diplomacy. The best joke I heard this week.
Lots of online jingoists here lol
Some talking needs to happen but let’s make one thing clear: Putin needs to pay for the war he started.
And any diplomatic solution needs to be fair to Ukraine. Ukraine is the country that Putin attacked and its people are dying and suffering, losing their homes, etc. etc. Putin’s Russia needs to pay heavily for what it has done.
20 comments
Yeah, and we claim the opposite – his naive attempts to pursue a dialogue with a country whose intentions to criminally misuse that dialogue are immoral.
> peace on acceptable conditions for Ukraine
At this time victory is the only acceptable for Ukraine. Too many lives gone, too many time spared and too high the feeling that victory is inevitable. Any other solution than forcing russia to capitulate feels like treason.
Narratives about US vs Beijing are ridiculous. It’s like reading russian articles about bipolar world. Europe is under direct attack of russian army, Ukraine is Europe. Not EU yet, but it’s European country. So if we speak about unity of Europe, why should se start from US or Beijing. None of them are direct cause of russian invasion, while putin is.
And Ukraine won’t be satisfied until putin get a fair trial for his orders. And he understands that too. So speaking to him is a really dumb idea, it’s not about morality, it’s about conflict of interests. The least places where Ukraine accepts putin after the war are prison or psychiatric facility, while putin obviously don’t want any of these.
France supports Ukraine militarily, economically and politically. There’s nothing wrong trying to resolve this issue diplomatically.
If Russia can be “convinced” to leave Ukraine, saving thousands of lives that would have been thrown in the meat-grinder to make them leave, it’s worth it.
I don’t care if the chance is 1%, it’s worth being taken. It’s not like the diplomatic talks are preventing support.
I actually think it’s a good thing that Macron is keeping lines of communication open. The president of the US had the red phone during the Cold War for the same reason.
At this point I want to remind everyone that Zelensky himself plead Macron to call Putin on 24th of february.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/vqop1j/phone_call_macronzelensky_24th_february_from/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It may have been mistaken efforts but it was right and from what I’ve heard he shouldn’t have moral doubts about that.
>The job of a diplomat is to talk to everybody and particularly to the people we disagree with
This.
Is Putin calling Macron? Probably no. So Marcon’s negotiation position is “Please, please, please”.
I think peace talks are the only real solution.
Otherwise we will face a conflict that could potentially last for years or even decades and an economic crisis that could ruin the Euro and many European economies.
When it comes to peace deals, realistically speaking both sides will need to make concessions.
Putin has proved many times his words mean shit.
France is behind Latvia and Estonia when it comes to weapons delivered and planned to be delivered.
[https://app.23degrees.io/view/csrwr27izyFhR1pT-bar-grouped-horizontal-figure-7_csv_v3_final](https://app.23degrees.io/view/csrwr27izyFhR1pT-bar-grouped-horizontal-figure-7_csv_v3_final)
So I’m gonna press doubt here on Macrons statements.
the problem with talking with that regime, is that their word means nothing. It’s been proven time and time again.
Even prior to the invasion we should know we are dealing with a criminal mindset.
they shipped in asylum seekers from the ME in the depths of winter just to use their suffering as a pawn to manipulate western values.
that is just one example of their scumbagness.
There is no harm in talking – provided it really is no harm, so for example Macron won’t hesitate to provide aid to Ukraine in the obviously mistaken hopes that this somehow helps with the diplomacy. From what I have seen, I don’t think Macron talking to Putin has in any way lessened his commitment, perhaps even the opposite. If he doesn’t talk to Putin, he might think there is some sort of more “reasonable” cause or misunderstanding that is in part making Putin do what he does. If he talks to Putin and hears Putin’s madman ranting, he will instead realize that there is nothing reasonable whatsoever about anything Putin does.
The main downside I see with talking with Putin might be that it could create the impression on Putin that he still hasn’t crossed enough lines and isn’t isolated when some people still are willing to talk to him. Leaving him completely alone might make it finally sink in.
Fuckin looser. Like a dog licking his own ass, afraid of it’s own shadow.
Easy for him to “defend dialogue”, when its not his people that are subjected to genocide, erasure of culture, and mass rapes and kindaping of children.
Jesus Christ France… when will you learn that there is no reasoning with that faschist manlet. How many times did they lie right into your face? How many times did they tell that noooo they will not invade Ukraine? How many times did they fuck the whole region over and over and you STILL try to give Putin a chance?
The larger European countries will talk with russia. Im sure were also in contact behind the scenes. There is simply no way to isolate a country that shares the borders with multiple European countries. This isn’t North korea
Putin making a fool out of Macron, round 2.
Ruzzia and diplomacy. The best joke I heard this week.
Lots of online jingoists here lol
Some talking needs to happen but let’s make one thing clear: Putin needs to pay for the war he started.
And any diplomatic solution needs to be fair to Ukraine. Ukraine is the country that Putin attacked and its people are dying and suffering, losing their homes, etc. etc. Putin’s Russia needs to pay heavily for what it has done.