Seems like something we ought to start thinking about. What are the actual conditions the West should demand for peace or a cease-fire, or negotiated withdrawal? What is the minimum we can settle for?
Peace means peace. No need to negociante. Just finish it and go back.
The minimum peace terms should be Russian withdrawal from the entirety of Ukraine and the usage of the Russian funds currently frozen by the US and EU as reparations.
That’s not something Russia will ever agree to, so it doesn’t matter.
Nobody care about what Russian Reich talks. The only important detail is their actions. So don’t talk about peace but retreat your army to its position at 1991.
“Offering him negotiations now would help him by taking off domestic pressure. He would portray it as Ukraine suing for peace. Domestic opinion in Ukraine also needs to be considered. After all the Russian destruction and atrocities, it’s politically impossible for its government to offer negotiations.
The situation would be far more complicated **if the Kremlin offered negotiations.**
**Many russians would take such an offer as a sign of weakness and argue that it should be rejected**. Many of Ukraine’s allies are democracies with complex public opinions. It is a challenge to keep them united behind this just cause. A negotiation offer by the Kremlin could split the alliance.”
After all the Kremlin has said and done in 7 months (the war, the gas threats, the nuclear threats…) who, in their right mind, on earth would ever trust an offer of peace by Russia?
Putin’s peace terms have been Ukraine’s total surrender so far. He can’t afford to lose face, so he’ll never offer any other terms openly. And if he does that in secret… well, everybody will be free to ignore that.
Don’t negotiate. Either all russians leave the ukraine including the parts they stole or do not even listen to him. Plus pay hundreds of billions including ologarch bankaccounts to rebuild ukraine… and make putin attend the ceremony when the Ukraine joins the EU.
And the EU should not go back to using russian gas again.
Almost completely up to Ukraine. We can offer advice but the peace process needs to be driven by Ukrainians. Unless if Ukraine want someone like the US or the EU to be part of the negotiation of course.
Since Russia has repeatedly broken the treaties it itself signed, including when invading Ukraine, there really is not point in a peace treaty with Russia or talks to that effect as such a treaty would not stop Russia from invading again when they feel ready to do so and Ukraine’s own abiding to the treaty and ceasing of military activities against the russian military would just be a respite for Russia to re-arm and reorganise for the next invasion.
The only way to guarantee peace with Russia if you’re a nation right next to it is to be capable of inflicting unsustainable losses on them if they attack (hence Finland’s military doctrine with regards to Russia), either by yourself or by being a member of a military defense pact pooling enough military power to do so.
Ukraine is already going in the direction of the “inflicting unsustainable losses” thing which will surely guarantee them peace with Russia for decades to come as long as they maintain the capabilities they have now acquired.
For Russia to get to the negotiating table it has to either suffer a catastrophic and decisive defeat in battle, or inflict the same upon Ukraine. Neither scenarion seem likely to happen.
During the winter I suspect Russia will receive the Chinese backing it needs and it will launch a new offensive, perhaps aimed at a location the Ukrainians cannot afford to lose, for political and military reasons, and where the Russian numbers can be brought to bear. Kharkiv seems to me to be as close to a version of Verdun as any.
In my opinion this is the worst possible time for the Russians to negotiate, as they are losing, and so they will retreat and regroup\, but they will not negotiate.
Never trust Russia.
Easy. Say fuck you and take back all they illegally occupied since 2014
No talks about territory. Fuck off to the Russia from all territory including Crimea. Then we can negotiate what we gonna do with sanctions and reparations.
No pause in fighting, nothing. Fuck right off. If you are fucking off to the schedule, Ukraine army won’t shoot in the back. That’s it.
Russia is a terrorist state. There is no reason to communicate with terrorists.
Imo, return to the 2014 borders as prerequisite for negotiations. Then negotiate war reparations in exchange for a lift on santions.
I’m sure there is some Spartan or Athenian response to a threatening big power that is adequate to the talks offering.
Else, just say gtf out of Ukraine bitch.
Apology and ritual suicide of the Russian leaders would be nice.
Ukraine has a set of conditions to resume peace talks. Russia unilaterally leaves all Ukrainian territory, returns all Ukrainian citizens, and pays reparations for all damages, injuries, and deaths. A great starting point for negotiations.
How is it that sometimes by merely looking at the thumbnail and the source you instantly know tl;dr is not possible?
19 comments
Seems like something we ought to start thinking about. What are the actual conditions the West should demand for peace or a cease-fire, or negotiated withdrawal? What is the minimum we can settle for?
Peace means peace. No need to negociante. Just finish it and go back.
The minimum peace terms should be Russian withdrawal from the entirety of Ukraine and the usage of the Russian funds currently frozen by the US and EU as reparations.
That’s not something Russia will ever agree to, so it doesn’t matter.
Nobody care about what Russian Reich talks. The only important detail is their actions. So don’t talk about peace but retreat your army to its position at 1991.
“Offering him negotiations now would help him by taking off domestic pressure. He would portray it as Ukraine suing for peace. Domestic opinion in Ukraine also needs to be considered. After all the Russian destruction and atrocities, it’s politically impossible for its government to offer negotiations.
The situation would be far more complicated **if the Kremlin offered negotiations.**
**Many russians would take such an offer as a sign of weakness and argue that it should be rejected**. Many of Ukraine’s allies are democracies with complex public opinions. It is a challenge to keep them united behind this just cause. A negotiation offer by the Kremlin could split the alliance.”
After all the Kremlin has said and done in 7 months (the war, the gas threats, the nuclear threats…) who, in their right mind, on earth would ever trust an offer of peace by Russia?
Putin’s peace terms have been Ukraine’s total surrender so far. He can’t afford to lose face, so he’ll never offer any other terms openly. And if he does that in secret… well, everybody will be free to ignore that.
Don’t negotiate. Either all russians leave the ukraine including the parts they stole or do not even listen to him. Plus pay hundreds of billions including ologarch bankaccounts to rebuild ukraine… and make putin attend the ceremony when the Ukraine joins the EU.
And the EU should not go back to using russian gas again.
Almost completely up to Ukraine. We can offer advice but the peace process needs to be driven by Ukrainians. Unless if Ukraine want someone like the US or the EU to be part of the negotiation of course.
Since Russia has repeatedly broken the treaties it itself signed, including when invading Ukraine, there really is not point in a peace treaty with Russia or talks to that effect as such a treaty would not stop Russia from invading again when they feel ready to do so and Ukraine’s own abiding to the treaty and ceasing of military activities against the russian military would just be a respite for Russia to re-arm and reorganise for the next invasion.
The only way to guarantee peace with Russia if you’re a nation right next to it is to be capable of inflicting unsustainable losses on them if they attack (hence Finland’s military doctrine with regards to Russia), either by yourself or by being a member of a military defense pact pooling enough military power to do so.
Ukraine is already going in the direction of the “inflicting unsustainable losses” thing which will surely guarantee them peace with Russia for decades to come as long as they maintain the capabilities they have now acquired.
For Russia to get to the negotiating table it has to either suffer a catastrophic and decisive defeat in battle, or inflict the same upon Ukraine. Neither scenarion seem likely to happen.
During the winter I suspect Russia will receive the Chinese backing it needs and it will launch a new offensive, perhaps aimed at a location the Ukrainians cannot afford to lose, for political and military reasons, and where the Russian numbers can be brought to bear. Kharkiv seems to me to be as close to a version of Verdun as any.
In my opinion this is the worst possible time for the Russians to negotiate, as they are losing, and so they will retreat and regroup\, but they will not negotiate.
Never trust Russia.
Easy. Say fuck you and take back all they illegally occupied since 2014
No talks about territory. Fuck off to the Russia from all territory including Crimea. Then we can negotiate what we gonna do with sanctions and reparations.
No pause in fighting, nothing. Fuck right off. If you are fucking off to the schedule, Ukraine army won’t shoot in the back. That’s it.
Russia is a terrorist state. There is no reason to communicate with terrorists.
Imo, return to the 2014 borders as prerequisite for negotiations. Then negotiate war reparations in exchange for a lift on santions.
I’m sure there is some Spartan or Athenian response to a threatening big power that is adequate to the talks offering.
Else, just say gtf out of Ukraine bitch.
Apology and ritual suicide of the Russian leaders would be nice.
Ukraine has a set of conditions to resume peace talks. Russia unilaterally leaves all Ukrainian territory, returns all Ukrainian citizens, and pays reparations for all damages, injuries, and deaths. A great starting point for negotiations.
How is it that sometimes by merely looking at the thumbnail and the source you instantly know tl;dr is not possible?