I get it is benefitting labour now because they’re up in the polls, but that won’t always be the case. It’s prime example of putting party before the needs of the country.
And this sub laughed at me when I said Labour wouldn’t change FPTP.
Kier stating this really made me question his motives. PR is exactly what this country needs to combat extremist ideologies destroying the country. We are beginning to see the devastating effect of this right now.
Professional deck chair-rearranger Keir Starmer continuing to swat away any chance of meaningful, systemic change coming about in this country, I see.
Starmer would have to be a total wetwipe to lose the next election (although useless as Truss is I won’t put it past him), but I can’t see Labour staying in power more than one inadequate term if they aren’t prepared to do more than tinker round the edges of the gaping holes in the fabric of this country.
Rayner was asked about this on recent episode of The News Agents pod. She said she didn’t support PR because she thought extremists don’t deserve a seat at the table. I was really disappointed – personally I think in a FPTP system, we see mainstream parties covertly infiltrated and taken over by extremists!
Labour opposes actual democracy.
Message received loud and clear.
Will vote accordingly.
I usually vote labour just to have a chance of keeping a Tory out, next election is going to leave a nasty taste to do so.
Big isildur not throwing the ring into mount Doom vibes here.
Shouldn’t come as any great surprise. New New Labour’s sole selling point is that they aren’t the Tories, so they presumably have no interest in electoral systems that would mean they have to compete against other parties that also aren’t the Tories.
Like, the **only** argument I see people making for voting Labour here is that voting for, say, the Greens, is at best a wasted vote, if not actively supporting the Tories. Keir Starmer’s Labour literally has nothing else.
PR would be a disaster for Labour’s electoral prospects
These are their recent losing results, i.e. the ones where they’re not getting a FPTP “winner’s bonus”
• 2010 = 39% of the seats from 29% of the vote
• 2015 = 36% of the seats from 30% of the vote
• 2017 = 40% of the seats from 40% of the vote
• 2019 = 31% of the seats from 32% of the vote
FPTP has essentially never been notably worse than PR would have been for Labour, and has often been much better. Plus, it seems fairly obvious that Labour’s vote share has been inflated by FPTP since it encourages a (more-or-less) two party system. The party might not even exist if not for FPTP, since it would probably have split in 2015-16.
The electoral problem for Labour is very simple – not winning enough votes in comparison to the Tories. That’s it. The electoral system is in no way rigged against them. Quite the opposite, in fact.
To be clear, I support PR myself. I think it would create a better democracy and break the ludicrous political power held by internal machinery and activists in the two main parties.
If your main goal is getting a Labour government, however, you probably shouldn’t support it. On the other hand, if you do support PR, arguing for it on the grounds that it will help produce Labour governments is not a very good idea, because most of electorate don’t vote Labour.
I’d certainly like to hear his rationale against electoral reform. I know the country voted against it last time the question came up, but given recent years, I would have thought at least partially standing with it as part of your platform would be something the general public might finally have an appetite for.
You know I read articles like this and start to wonder if Keir is a Mason or a member of some other men’s group.
FPTP barely benefits Labour in the long run though. They might win the odd election but the Tories have one more elections under the system than they have over the last 40 years still. It might be tough initially but the long term benefits would likely pay off if we adopted something other than FPTP.
I didn’t expect him to change his mind, now the unions and the membership are all aligned for PR he remains solidly against it. Even if after significant pressure he did fold you couldn’t trust him to follow through given what it took to change his mind. I can’t find much his heart is for but I do know its strongly against PR.
Then he can straight up go fuck himself – he isn’t getting my vote.
Ph yeah, because FPTP has served Labour so well in the past couple of decades?
Absolute tool.
I see no reason for him to come out and say he supports it when the next GE is so far away. Tory media would spend the next 2 years coming up with a million different ways to brainwash people into why PR will destroy the UK and people will lap it up. IF it’s still the case when it’s election time then be up in arms but right now it’s not worth opening up the media floodgates of Tory media to drown out important policies that matter right now, ie green energy and cost of living.
He will continue to do this because he’s a fucking malicious cunt and for absolutely no other reason
Yeah he’s lying to get into power – Did you all just get here?
So what are you actually for Keir? No rejoining the EU, no PR, no nationalising utilities, no support for the labour force on strike?
I fully expect him to join the war on woke soon.
Because Labour is already a strained party – and it would explode into numerous smaller ones with PR
Think there are bigger priorities right now. Focusing on electoral reform over the cost of living crisis is political suicide.
Can anyone explain who and why it was made a thing in the first place?
23 comments
I get it is benefitting labour now because they’re up in the polls, but that won’t always be the case. It’s prime example of putting party before the needs of the country.
And this sub laughed at me when I said Labour wouldn’t change FPTP.
Kier stating this really made me question his motives. PR is exactly what this country needs to combat extremist ideologies destroying the country. We are beginning to see the devastating effect of this right now.
Professional deck chair-rearranger Keir Starmer continuing to swat away any chance of meaningful, systemic change coming about in this country, I see.
Starmer would have to be a total wetwipe to lose the next election (although useless as Truss is I won’t put it past him), but I can’t see Labour staying in power more than one inadequate term if they aren’t prepared to do more than tinker round the edges of the gaping holes in the fabric of this country.
Rayner was asked about this on recent episode of The News Agents pod. She said she didn’t support PR because she thought extremists don’t deserve a seat at the table. I was really disappointed – personally I think in a FPTP system, we see mainstream parties covertly infiltrated and taken over by extremists!
Labour opposes actual democracy.
Message received loud and clear.
Will vote accordingly.
I usually vote labour just to have a chance of keeping a Tory out, next election is going to leave a nasty taste to do so.
Big isildur not throwing the ring into mount Doom vibes here.
Shouldn’t come as any great surprise. New New Labour’s sole selling point is that they aren’t the Tories, so they presumably have no interest in electoral systems that would mean they have to compete against other parties that also aren’t the Tories.
Like, the **only** argument I see people making for voting Labour here is that voting for, say, the Greens, is at best a wasted vote, if not actively supporting the Tories. Keir Starmer’s Labour literally has nothing else.
PR would be a disaster for Labour’s electoral prospects
These are their recent losing results, i.e. the ones where they’re not getting a FPTP “winner’s bonus”
• 2010 = 39% of the seats from 29% of the vote
• 2015 = 36% of the seats from 30% of the vote
• 2017 = 40% of the seats from 40% of the vote
• 2019 = 31% of the seats from 32% of the vote
FPTP has essentially never been notably worse than PR would have been for Labour, and has often been much better. Plus, it seems fairly obvious that Labour’s vote share has been inflated by FPTP since it encourages a (more-or-less) two party system. The party might not even exist if not for FPTP, since it would probably have split in 2015-16.
The electoral problem for Labour is very simple – not winning enough votes in comparison to the Tories. That’s it. The electoral system is in no way rigged against them. Quite the opposite, in fact.
To be clear, I support PR myself. I think it would create a better democracy and break the ludicrous political power held by internal machinery and activists in the two main parties.
If your main goal is getting a Labour government, however, you probably shouldn’t support it. On the other hand, if you do support PR, arguing for it on the grounds that it will help produce Labour governments is not a very good idea, because most of electorate don’t vote Labour.
I’d certainly like to hear his rationale against electoral reform. I know the country voted against it last time the question came up, but given recent years, I would have thought at least partially standing with it as part of your platform would be something the general public might finally have an appetite for.
You know I read articles like this and start to wonder if Keir is a Mason or a member of some other men’s group.
FPTP barely benefits Labour in the long run though. They might win the odd election but the Tories have one more elections under the system than they have over the last 40 years still. It might be tough initially but the long term benefits would likely pay off if we adopted something other than FPTP.
I didn’t expect him to change his mind, now the unions and the membership are all aligned for PR he remains solidly against it. Even if after significant pressure he did fold you couldn’t trust him to follow through given what it took to change his mind. I can’t find much his heart is for but I do know its strongly against PR.
Then he can straight up go fuck himself – he isn’t getting my vote.
Ph yeah, because FPTP has served Labour so well in the past couple of decades?
Absolute tool.
I see no reason for him to come out and say he supports it when the next GE is so far away. Tory media would spend the next 2 years coming up with a million different ways to brainwash people into why PR will destroy the UK and people will lap it up. IF it’s still the case when it’s election time then be up in arms but right now it’s not worth opening up the media floodgates of Tory media to drown out important policies that matter right now, ie green energy and cost of living.
He will continue to do this because he’s a fucking malicious cunt and for absolutely no other reason
Yeah he’s lying to get into power – Did you all just get here?
So what are you actually for Keir? No rejoining the EU, no PR, no nationalising utilities, no support for the labour force on strike?
I fully expect him to join the war on woke soon.
Because Labour is already a strained party – and it would explode into numerous smaller ones with PR
Think there are bigger priorities right now. Focusing on electoral reform over the cost of living crisis is political suicide.
Can anyone explain who and why it was made a thing in the first place?