Cue the arguments that it can never happen because FPTP allows Labour and the Tories to “share” a duopoly on power, despite FPTP only allowing Labour to form a government once since the 70s.
PR is the single most important thing this country needs to stop all sorts of extremism.
Labour need to look at this as putting in a permanent solution to prevent them having no say what so ever for another 15 years.
I have a question – why don’t/can’t we have some kind of public vote on this matter?
I understand legislation should be voted on in the house of commons by MP’s, but this is about how we shape our democracy and I really think it should be up to public vote.
Inb4 it goes to public vote and somehow FPTP wins.
The biggest argument anyone ever makes against this is that it’s messy. Who can look at the current lot and say that with a straight face?
We all want this but is it something that will win over the voters that turn out to vote ??
Please please please please support this labour. Please.
Kier Starmer to ignore calls at Labour conference for proportional representation voting
Will never happen. Starmer knows that the neoliberalism he champions is what benefits most from FPTP.
> “Some in Starmer’s circle, as well as sceptical Labour MPs, argue that to embrace PR amounts to defeatism, and that the party should be set on winning an absolute majority rather than seek coalitions under PR.”
These people are idiots.
The “”nice”” thing about a call is that you always have the oppurtunity to ignore it. As Keir will do, pretty self evidently.
He needs FPTP to keep the left in check, without it, the socialists could form their own party and run without fear of the spoiler effect. Admittedly, socialists also short sightedly refused FPTP when they WERE in charge of the party, so this might be the rare case that the “both sides” narrative for Labour factionalism is actually true.
Unfortunately that leaves us plebs with a flagrantly unfair voting system, but I’d be amazed if that’s not how this pans out.
well first things first I think labour need to win an election before they can start holding referendums
We should be so lucky…
Good on the people bringing this up.
Starmer: “No. We’d no longer be the party of opposition.”
Looking forward to seeing how Ol’ Kier breaks his personal best speed record for “shooting himself in the foot by doing the opposite of the sensible thing”.
…he’s probably already said he’s never going to be in favour of PR while I’ve typed this, hasn’t he?
The problem with countries and governments is they’re too big. As mammals and in nature, we see tribes and herds of animals that are between 10-100 strong. This worked out in the early days of our species, but as we’ve progressed to become more numerous we allow greed into our society.
Essentially “governing” millions of people, even hundreds of thousands of people is a fools errand.
I’ve just woke up so it’s difficult to describe. But too many people want different things.
Honestly about the only thing that might give labour a shot at the election tbh.
ELI5 why can’t conference simply _demand_ this be Labour party policy? I thought that was the point
This is an issue for second term Starmer.
People are fucking idiots, so Labour are playing it safe as fuck until they hopefully win.
The tories are staunchly against changing the current voting system
which is a good indication why change needs to happen asap
They’re crazy not to do it. It would end the decades of Tory control and stop the power grab politics we have now. Maybe we could do some long term planning and get the country back on its feet.
Yet ironically that would only be supported if their was a majority. Doubt their is, Socialists want it to steal power even though they only make up a small portion of our population. He seems to be going for the center ground which is sensible so I’d hope he doesn’t fall for this BS.
I’d rather we got ranked choice but still this would be better than nothing.
If we want political reform, PR should not be the end… or maybe even the start. I would prefer to see an elected upper house, possibly using PR, and given real teeth to act as a proper check on the Commons.
Regardless, the role of local government needs strengthening too- perhaps given the job of managing local services, such as health and transport, and given a slice of income tax to do so. I’m a big fan of Swiss style direct democracy too and I would love it if something similar were implemented in the UK. Or there’s also a possibility of a directly elected government, rather than merely being formed out of a band of MPs as we see now.
PR would be ok but I don’t think it should be the sole focus.
No fecking way! The Conservatives are getting wiped out! Next election.
Never again!
We had a referendum on this already in 2011, people voted overwhelmingly to maintain the status quo.
I’m not voting labour unless they promise electoral reform. I’m sick of these fucks taking my anti-Tory vote for granted so i’m just not doing it any more. Greens will get my vote.
Do it you bitch! I won’t be able to handle another 10+ years of Tory bullshit when Labour fuck something up when they next get in power.
Yeh, it’s so telling when parties use forms of PR for their internal votes but won’t support it for the public. I really hope they bite the bullet and go for this but I fear that Keir fears the right wing media onslaught too much
The only way we’re getting PR is if a single issue party runs on a platform of immediately implementing PR, then immediately calling another GE that they won’t run in.
29 comments
Cue the arguments that it can never happen because FPTP allows Labour and the Tories to “share” a duopoly on power, despite FPTP only allowing Labour to form a government once since the 70s.
PR is the single most important thing this country needs to stop all sorts of extremism.
Labour need to look at this as putting in a permanent solution to prevent them having no say what so ever for another 15 years.
I have a question – why don’t/can’t we have some kind of public vote on this matter?
I understand legislation should be voted on in the house of commons by MP’s, but this is about how we shape our democracy and I really think it should be up to public vote.
Inb4 it goes to public vote and somehow FPTP wins.
The biggest argument anyone ever makes against this is that it’s messy. Who can look at the current lot and say that with a straight face?
We all want this but is it something that will win over the voters that turn out to vote ??
Please please please please support this labour. Please.
Kier Starmer to ignore calls at Labour conference for proportional representation voting
Will never happen. Starmer knows that the neoliberalism he champions is what benefits most from FPTP.
> “Some in Starmer’s circle, as well as sceptical Labour MPs, argue that to embrace PR amounts to defeatism, and that the party should be set on winning an absolute majority rather than seek coalitions under PR.”
These people are idiots.
The “”nice”” thing about a call is that you always have the oppurtunity to ignore it. As Keir will do, pretty self evidently.
He needs FPTP to keep the left in check, without it, the socialists could form their own party and run without fear of the spoiler effect. Admittedly, socialists also short sightedly refused FPTP when they WERE in charge of the party, so this might be the rare case that the “both sides” narrative for Labour factionalism is actually true.
Unfortunately that leaves us plebs with a flagrantly unfair voting system, but I’d be amazed if that’s not how this pans out.
well first things first I think labour need to win an election before they can start holding referendums
We should be so lucky…
Good on the people bringing this up.
Starmer: “No. We’d no longer be the party of opposition.”
Looking forward to seeing how Ol’ Kier breaks his personal best speed record for “shooting himself in the foot by doing the opposite of the sensible thing”.
…he’s probably already said he’s never going to be in favour of PR while I’ve typed this, hasn’t he?
The problem with countries and governments is they’re too big. As mammals and in nature, we see tribes and herds of animals that are between 10-100 strong. This worked out in the early days of our species, but as we’ve progressed to become more numerous we allow greed into our society.
Essentially “governing” millions of people, even hundreds of thousands of people is a fools errand.
I’ve just woke up so it’s difficult to describe. But too many people want different things.
Honestly about the only thing that might give labour a shot at the election tbh.
ELI5 why can’t conference simply _demand_ this be Labour party policy? I thought that was the point
This is an issue for second term Starmer.
People are fucking idiots, so Labour are playing it safe as fuck until they hopefully win.
The tories are staunchly against changing the current voting system
which is a good indication why change needs to happen asap
They’re crazy not to do it. It would end the decades of Tory control and stop the power grab politics we have now. Maybe we could do some long term planning and get the country back on its feet.
Yet ironically that would only be supported if their was a majority. Doubt their is, Socialists want it to steal power even though they only make up a small portion of our population. He seems to be going for the center ground which is sensible so I’d hope he doesn’t fall for this BS.
I’d rather we got ranked choice but still this would be better than nothing.
If we want political reform, PR should not be the end… or maybe even the start. I would prefer to see an elected upper house, possibly using PR, and given real teeth to act as a proper check on the Commons.
Regardless, the role of local government needs strengthening too- perhaps given the job of managing local services, such as health and transport, and given a slice of income tax to do so. I’m a big fan of Swiss style direct democracy too and I would love it if something similar were implemented in the UK. Or there’s also a possibility of a directly elected government, rather than merely being formed out of a band of MPs as we see now.
PR would be ok but I don’t think it should be the sole focus.
No fecking way! The Conservatives are getting wiped out! Next election.
Never again!
We had a referendum on this already in 2011, people voted overwhelmingly to maintain the status quo.
Proportional representation better reflects voters intentions.
I’m not voting labour unless they promise electoral reform. I’m sick of these fucks taking my anti-Tory vote for granted so i’m just not doing it any more. Greens will get my vote.
Do it you bitch! I won’t be able to handle another 10+ years of Tory bullshit when Labour fuck something up when they next get in power.
Yeh, it’s so telling when parties use forms of PR for their internal votes but won’t support it for the public. I really hope they bite the bullet and go for this but I fear that Keir fears the right wing media onslaught too much
The only way we’re getting PR is if a single issue party runs on a platform of immediately implementing PR, then immediately calling another GE that they won’t run in.