Hi r/lithuania! Seen this meme on r/Poland. What are your thoughts about? What is your attitude towards Poland as we done some great and shitty things to your country?

44 comments

  1. Despite common internet jokes, I think Lithuanians have pretty decent view on Poland. Some of us go to Poland to buy shit, some tend to travel there.

    I personally lived in UK and used to hang out with polands. Had polish girlfriend and lived in Gdansk for around 6months. I love Poland and Im sure most of Lithuanians who are open-minded too

  2. If we’re taking political level, then Poland isn’t that type of friend you’d sit on the rooftop with chatting about life, more like great partner you can make really cool things with.
    Joining our strength and going to Grunwald again? Yeah. Supporting each other politically? Sure! Partying, drinking till sunrise and calling each other brothers for life? Meh.

    Now about attitude towards Poland. If how I see the country now, then everything is alright. If how I feel about past, then things are more complicated because of few things. Does it change the way I see Poland now? Nope. But it does change that “partying-and-calling-brothers” aspect. You can’t be bros with someone who did things bros don’t do 🙂 at least, not for the first time.

    Speaking about common attitude towards Poles (on personal level): I believe it’d be much harder to find someone who hates on them than someone who is okay with them.

    Also, imho relationship between countries got much better than it was, let’s say, ~10 years ago. Which is awesome, considering our potential fruitful cooperation. You know, few steps taken from each side and things can get even better.

  3. I see Poland as once truly European country with very bright people from arts, sciences, humanities, political and technological backgrounds. I don’t put blame on them for heavy Polish cultural and social influence in Lithuanian lands many years ago. In fact, I see that as a great time of our shared history because all that happened in The Commonwealth led to the very first constitution in Europe, The Constitution of 3 May 1791, which was a truly great advancement that helped to shape democracy, the rule of law and liberty foundations worldwide. Our historical Commonwealth in the final years of its existence was a remarkable example of all that. That we share.

    Nowadays I see Poland as an ultra Catholic country that is going in the opposite political, cultural and social direction than our historical Commonwealth and it makes me sad, tbh.

    When it comes to people, I have no clue what kind of people they are because I’ve only had brief encounters with a few Poles.

  4. I see Poland as our important stategic partner, but someone that we don’t have very good relations with, because of your political situation, a few points:

    1. We have a long history of being one nation, sharing (sometimes dissagreeing about) historic figures, but the last historic insident was occupation of Vilnius, so this point doesn’t stand very positively, although most people don’t think about it too much.

    2. Poland is our 1# ally in defence and one of the mains one in EU politics on keeping Russia at bay.

    3. The thing that lowers Poland and poles reputation in Lithuania is probably our party that at least claims to represent polish minority – it’s pro russian, very conservative, corrupt and quite frankly insane (one of the prominent politicians in pre election debates said that they will increase minimum wage to thousand euros and decrease one of the main forms of taxation to one euro). Good thing, that the party is on it’s way out in terms of national politics, on this election they got less then 5% of vote, which is required to get any MP seats im popular vote ballot, so they only got few MP seats from the districts were polish minority lives.

  9. I like Poland, you guys have cheap hotel prices compared to ours, at least in Eastern Poland (I mean using something like booking dot com. In summer I’ve never seen a hotel for less than 50€ per night in Kretinga, meanwhile in Leba I paid no more than 13€ per night), cheap and tasty food, great piwo and beautiful nature. People seem to be friendly, sometimes I’ve had a couple just walk up to us and talk lol. One old guy even walked us where to eat for the cheapest price in Olsztyn.

    Since we’re neighbours and Poland is a huge country, Poland offers a lot of travel opportunities for someone like me who has their own car. I’ve never hiked to any mountains before in my life, but two years ago I traveled over 600 km by car in one day to Bieszczady. Spent the rest of our ten days hiking around the whole area, we even hiked around 13 km over an entire mountain rage on the top. It was a lot of fun, so having a neighbour with mountains so close by is such a treat. I spent 7,5€ per night there. Why pay a ticket to somewhere like Austria or Italy to hike on the Alps for 300-600€ and pay high hotel prices, when you can experience that in a neighbouring country for twice less?

    So what I’m trying to say is, I don’t think we should glare at each other because of our tough history. I think we should be happy that we both have such beautiful countries and I think we should definitely encourage more communication between us. Lithuanians visiting Poland or Poles visiting Lithuania is great for both countries. And I think Lithuania in general needs a bigger tourism boom than ever (speaking with covid out of the picture obviously)

  10. I’ve been to poland so many times, i’ve had polish friends, i dont like how the nationalists, want Vilnius but over all, i Fucking Love the poles

  12. We’ve done great things in the past, then you did some not-so-great things.

    The whole Wilno nasze thing is annoying. Also, your politics right now are kind of fucked up.

    Polish people (the new generation) in general are cool, I’ve met many here and abroad.

  15. Poland is cheap, good for holidays. Gdansk is best city. Warsaw is worst. People are decent, girls are cute, government is atrocious, social developments ultra religious and conservative. Its basically the Mexico of Europe, just different climate.

  18. I’d say our attitude towards Poland is a power struggle between the two narratives:

    1. The one backed by liberals/moderates: Poland is our window to the West (Christianisation, the May 3, 1791 Constitution, the alliance against Muscovy/Russia).

    2. The one backed by ultraconservatives/hardcore nationalists: Poland has done more harm than good to Lithuania (the Union of Lublin was a betrayal of Lithuanian interests, Polonisation, the occupation of Vilnius).

    I’d say the first one wins today because Lithuania and Poland have shared interests, just like centuries ago.

  21. Mostly positive. We had a relatively great country together (it was still a feudal state, but oh well), we had the largest franchise in the world before dissolution only surpassed by US later (and not by much), I remember a quote saying something like “in the 16th-18th century we were the “western europe” of the time, we embodied the values of western europe of today more than the western europe of the time – religious freedom, tolerance, decentralization of power, etc.”. I’d like to believe that if the country would have lasted longer we might have become one of the beacons of democracy today with mature institutions and traditions.

    Relationships today are good and better recently, Lithuanians kind of look up to the success of Poland – economic development, new infrastructure.

    But you will hear some negative attitudes. A lot of it is also due to Soviet propaganda. For example one rather popular trope here is to equalize the process of polonization during the period of PLC with the forced rusification during Tzarist occupation. Some people today feel salty that Lithuanian language did not have the same status as Polish in the PLC. You have to keep in mind that the modern Lithuanian state was created on the basis of ideas in late 19th century romantic movement – the self determination of a nation, a nation being defined by the language of the people. A lot of the key people involved in the creation of the Lithuanian state in the 20th century actually learned Lithuanian later in their life – it was not their mother tongue. That was doubled downed on after Poland took Vilnius.

    Vilnius. As far as Lithuanians are concerned – that was a dick move. Even if we did something similar to Klaipeda. And I also think it was a strategic mistake by Poland at the time. It did more damage to the relationship than anything else. I know the argument that Vilnius was majority Polish at the time, but I don’t think it’s a good argument – not today. Certain places have special meaning in the collective conciousness of a country and Vilnius was that place for Lithuania, it’s the symbol of statehood. Polish culture is larger than the polish state, you can have enclaves of another culture within another state. If Vilnius had remained in Lithuania multiculturalism could have been enshrined into the understanding of the Lithuanian state, Lithuania might have been a country with 2 official languages and we would have likely had MUCH better relationships – or it could have ended in a civil war, we’ll never know now :).

    Our local polish minority leadership. They kind of give a bad rap – it’s a kleptocratic, nepotistic organization.

  24. A great nato ally, very nice people, but quite neutral feelings about history.

    All in all, I like to put the bad past behind us and look at a great friendship between each other once again 🙂

  26. Do we dislike the things you’ve done in the past? Yes.
    Do we recognize you as important partners in the EU and NATO, and as good neighbors? Also yes.

  30. The EU – Poland relations are really concerning. Also last spring, when covid first started, Poland closed it’s borders and didn’t allow lithuanians to drive home from Western Europe which was basically a slap in the face for us. But it’s not like we hate Poland or anything(most of us anyway)

  31. I personally love Poland and poles except the catholic zeal. That thing really saddens me. My friends in Poland told me much about catholic corruption yet so far no one can change it. We have similar problems here at smaller scale. Imho, religion must be strictly private thing and not defining politics.

  32. I have no ill will towards Poland , I’v been there a few times, its a nice place. Though their givernment worries me a little bit. I think our countries could be friends…

  35. I will be honest, because I don’t want to lie to anyone. lithuanians hate poles because of polish soccer (or football idk) fans. Especially Wilno poles. Even ppl from Kaunas (Kowno) hate whole Vilnius (Wilno) city and call it Portugal (which is illogical lol). But if you are nice tourist not a stupid soccer fan, then you’re welcome in Lithuania!

  36. There are major historical issues and provocations from Polish side. However one thing I cannot do but respect, Polish political elite and local national populism while completely not relying on their diaspora. If Lithuania had the ability to develop at least 50% of political elite Poland has it would already be enough. Not to mention the 2010 Smolensk Plane crash which wiped out so many high ranking politicians, the sustainability is there.

  37. Don’t get most people’s outlook here. “Lenkas” (Lithuanian for polish person) is a very usual insult, from a political level the countries are fine but the average person here doesn’t really look at poland kindly at all and see most of you as somehow worse off than us even though your country is more developed. Though I don’t live in Vilnius/kaunas and i assume that’s where most of the comments come from

  38. >Lithuania being the black one

    Makes sense. You almost killed our culture. Serfdom being equivalent to slavery. Reparations when?

    Lithuanian lives matter! #LLM

  39. Oh I do like Poland and it’s people.

    Being Lithuanian and living abroad in Norway for about 7 years I met some fantastic Polish people and we became friends. These are the people with the closest mentality/culture to ours.

    Most of Polish people are hard working Go-Getters and I think Poland has a great future ahead of it. It is already becoming Europe’s Production Hub.

    Towns and cities are clean, and there are nice cute asphalt roads pretty much everywhere. A lot of things, items are produced inside the country and Poland is Self sufficient in many many ways.

    Not to mention that many many Lithuanians have Polish roots and relatives. Especially those coming from border areas.

    I admire Poland and what it has achieved. The culture is strong, people are energetic.

    The only thing that surprises me is that Polish politicians have this anti-gay agenda, while in reality there are many Polish gays in Poland and outside of it. Poland is quite conservative, and the moment it becomes a bit more laid back and embraces personal freedoms it would feel a lot like Germany or Chech Republic.

    I see Poland and cannot but admire it despite it’s small flaws.

  40. Poland is probably the most based and redpilled country in Europe. Hats off to you guys. Especially that Dominik Tarczynski guy. Dangerously based.

  43. Non ultra concervative polish people are great. Lithuanian polish minority is more russian than polish and tend to act against our country – thats why people don’t usually like them, not because they are “polish”

  44. Currently writing my bachelor paper on poles in Lithuania. To be honest, most Lithuanians like poles. We do say jokes about poles, but it’s not in bad faith, it’s more like silly friendly jokes about Estonians being slow. When discussing history, there are some subjects it is better not to discuss (since Poland and Lithuania teach slightly different POVs on them) and they can really ignite some, um, argument. We appreciate the fact that Poland is an economic and military ally and that during and after the Cold War, Poland chose to reject all claims to Vilnius, as well as the fact that Poland had proposed it’s help to Landsbergis to run a government-in-exile from Poland in case independance could not be achieved in Lithuania (there is even a document in http://www.e-seimas.lrs.lt about it). Hell, not only our governments, but even the radical partisans (polish ones that killed some lithuanian civilians and lithuanian ones that killed polish civilians) that survived the war signed a peace treaty (in 2004 I believe). Not really fans of the fact we get blamed for some stuff we do not do tho, like being blamed for “forced assimilation” (will elaborate in another paragraph).

    My bachelor is about the integration (not assimilation) of poles in Lithuania. So, I have come across a LOT of people (both civilian redditors as well as the past president of Poland) saying that Lithuania treats the polish minority unfairly and that “the efforts to forcefully assimilate poles are obvious” (do forgive me if these sound like I am “attacking” loved politicians or Poles, that is not my intent). So as a person who read both about the history and the laws of this topic, I would like to tackle some myths and some truths. One of the myths that seems to be popular amongst some Poles is that the “po prostu” dialect is made up by Lithuanians to downplay the polisheness of the Poles so they could be assimilated. The truth is, there were several questionairs/scientific works/projects with the polish minority, and they themselves call it “po prostu” and that they have issues talking the standart Polish sometimes, to the point where their relatives in Poland call them Lithuanians. Another myth, claimed by a past Prime Minister or Minister of Education of Poland (not sure) was that the education of poles in Lithuania is surpressed. Lithuania is the only country, other than Poland, where you can go from kindergarten up to finishing university all in Polish and with Polish textbooks. A past president of Poland (can’t remember the name, the man from Solidarity, used to be an electrician) refused to get a medal/ordin of the highest rank from Lithuania and he claimed that he did so in protest of Lithuania’s unfair treatment of poles. The Ministry of Justice of EU evaluated his claims, checked upon the situation in Lithuania, and deemed that Lithuania has done nothing wrong according to the ethnic minority protection convention that is signed by most European countries (including Lithuania). A good critique tho (kinda) is that we do not really have our own ethnic minority law, but what most fail to realise is that it is mostly due to bureaucracy, not nationalism. To pass an ethnic minority law you must establish the fact that ethnic minorities exist, but in Lithuania’s laws they are referred to as ethnic communities (and the since the law trying to be passed has less power than constitutional laws, you cannot just change the term willy nilly). Another issue is the national language constitutional law. There is a proposed law that proposes that if in a teritory, at least 1/3 are poles, and 50% of people of the teritory vote “yes”, the street signs would be both in Lithuanian and in Polish in that territory. Well the problem is that the national language constitutional law says street signs can only be in the national language. Another issue is the Polish minority party (specifically the rulers of it), since they talk about the bad stuff Lithuania does “oh the bad Lithuania, they do not let us write cz in our passports” but when the issue actually comes up in Seimas, they vote against it for some reason (maybe so they could talk about it more and get elected again). Poles in Lithuania have a right to a fair trial, to a translator in a trial, to talk in polish, to move around and out of the country, to get education in the language of their choice (including polish), to contact the press, to demand protection in case of ethnic discrimination, the right to chose wether they want to be considered part of an ethnic minority/community or not, use the polish flag, celebrate polish holidays, get money from the government to have their culture thrive, get time on the national TV and it’s website. Basically everything they want to do except become the president (unless they were born in Lithuania then they can do that too).

    I do seem to be unlucky enough, that if I run into a Pole on Reddit, 9/10 times it will be a “learn you master’s language, Wilno nasza” type of person, meanwhile in real life I have only met one pole like that and the rest were cool. My parents had polish friends, they once had an extra ticket for Parc of Asterix (French Disneyland basically) and they took me there for free.

    Overall, I find Poland cool, but I am still pissed about Vytautas’ crown xD

Leave a Reply