English universities could face fines if not enough students get jobs – The Office for Students has introduced the tests for subjects they deem ‘low quality’
English universities could face fines if not enough students get jobs – The Office for Students has introduced the tests for subjects they deem ‘low quality’
38 comments
Right, because the universities have any say in what happens to students after they graduate. JFC.
And thus the journey to the dark side is complete. Education becomes training – force feeding the skills needed to make complaint wage slaves.
Political control over every major institution is the sort of thing that when it happens overseas everyone expresses great concern over.
It’s amazing how it’s been allowed to happen in the UK, all under the control of the Conservative Party. BBC, education, civil service and many more probably.
The reason they are doing it is obvious, they have completely lost public support. Even before the recent unpleasantness.
On the one hand, I do think universities should carry a degree of obligation and therefore risk when it comes to the future prospects of their students. Currently, universities appear to operate like businesses with a focus on student attraction to drive volumes and income. Aside from the employment link to some league table results there is little incentive to focus on quality graduate employment. Simply get them in, learn ’em and churn ’em.
I also think this is important when we consider how university attendance is funded. As someone who will pay back all my student loans within c10years of graduation, I’ll admit to some frustration that I will pay for my education whereas many (most?) others will get their education and party years for free (edit; or heavily discounted) as they simply don’t aspire* to a career that will let them earn enough to pay it back – and they knew that when they enrolled.
*I was bang average for my course at a typical RG University. This is about aspiration.
This all said, education is important for all of society, and we shouldn’t have an adult education sector which is solely geared to training workers. If universities are incentivised to focus on those who are career minded then they will select those who focus on post-university career and we could lose diversity of thought and intent at undergrad.
Quite a conundrum.
What’s the opposite of a renaissance. Abandon all art and creative persuits so we have more middle managers and marketeers.
Frankly I think the quality of education has dipped enormously since tuition fees became a primary funding in certain areas for universities to run themselves. My uni on my way out turned into such a business focused place so thoroughly that classes of 50 when I started ballooned to 200 by the time I left, material resources were slashed and cut back on to make room for more heads. I am troubled more by the quality of education and the expectation that punitive damages and not examining or reorienting the system that manages these places will be beneficial.
Good. Students should not be treated as customers. They should be rewarded with a pathway into a actual job that fits the qualification they earn.
Well looks like every uni is set to start receiving fines, it might be less paperwork to just lower student fees.
This is one of those things that sorta sounds good on paper but is actually a terrible idea isn’t it.
So we can look forward to functionally worthless, social division creating sociology and liberal arts courses getting abolished then?
What about students who go travelling for a few years after uni?
The problem is these same uni’s are offering a lot of useless experimental degrees that can never lead to jobs.
It’s genuinely scary how many people see this and go “Good, this will make it harder to learn about culture, art and history”. Anti-intellectualism is on the rise at a terrifying rate, and people are becoming increasingly proud of their ignorance.
There’s so much more to degrees and university than getting a better paid job. And some degrees that don’t have a structured career path will suffer. Maybe it should be based on what the students think who are attending these courses combined with a review of the content of the subjects.
Whether this can be implemented appropriately is to be seen, but I admittedly do feel some kind of catharsis reading this as someone who graduated
over 5 years ago and still hasn’t found a graduate job. I’ve questioned my worth as a human being so many times after receiving rejection after rejection, and wish that I could catch just one break. Now, I have a Master’s and voluntary experience in the fields that I’m looking to go into (and am currently looking for more), but busting out of retail/sales/food service still feels like a miracle is required.
I know a degree doesn’t entitle you to a job, but there’s something to be said about a system wherein 3-4 years of investment and £50k+ worth of (conditional) debt isn’t enough anymore. Literally, my whole life is suffering because I can’t catch a break in this rigged job market. And people who tell you to “volunteer, network, do internships” are missing the point—it’s insane that this is required on top of everything, just to be paid a living wage and to escape environments where managers and customers alike treat you like you’re nothing.
This as been a thing for years.
At my uni their was a course just for oversea students that was 8hr a week and only had coursework no exam. The attendees often said that it was a way of getting a uk degree without actual having to do anything. Just 3 yrs at a uk uni.
The problem with this idea is that it will disproportionately affect people from less well off backgrounds if a university decides an applicant wont make it through a degree and want to avoid fines mounting up
They are finally finishing the job of Turing universities into businesses. They key metric now being can you get a good job.
Universities should be about education, not about money. There are plenty of useful degrees that you can’t work in that field. History, astronomy, philosophy etc. But the education is the goal, not what job you get. People with these degrees have learnt a way of critcal thinking and analysing a subject which is a useful skill in employment, but it should never be the driver.
But we pay for our tuition, let me use it for what I want
Arts unis on suicide watch
(bottom 3 for prospects are the uni for creative arts, arts uni Bournmouth, and uni of Arts London)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/good-university-guide-in-full-tp6dzs7wn
Lmao, up to the graduates to sort themselves out and take some initiative after graduation. Not a fault of the universities.
I remember when I was in college and I have specific classes in my final year around next steps, support on applying for university places through UCAS etc.
I wonder if universities will now do this, only for support on how to write decent CVs, apply for graduate roles etc. it’ll probably be a good thing at the end of the day.
Or universities will just count any job a student has, post uni, as a job regardless if it’s linked to the course just to skip the fine. Personally thought universities already did this.
https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/press-and-media/ofs-sets-new-expectations-for-student-outcomes/
>For full-time students studying for a first degree, the thresholds are for:
>80 per cent of students to continue their studies
>75 per cent of students to complete their course
>60 per cent of students to go on to further study, professional work, or other positive outcomes, within 15 months of graduating.
>Performance below a numerical threshold does not mean that a provider is not meeting the OfS’s minimum expectations. The OfS only makes a judgement that a provider is not compliant after considering the context in which it is operating.
>This means that we may find that a provider with performance below a numerical threshold is delivering positive outcomes for its students. We have not yet made any judgments about any providers.
https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/media/63061a10-939e-4cf8-8db1-82da48710023/description-of-student-outcome-and-experience-indicators-methodology.pdf
>The progression measures count as positive outcomes those students who report in their response to the Graduate Outcomes survey, 15 months after gaining their qualification:
>a. Managerial or professional employment (defined as employment in an occupation
which falls within major groups 1 to 3 of the Office for National Statistics (ONS)
Standard Occupational Classification 2020).
>b. Further study at any level of study.
>c. Travelling, caring for someone else or retirement.
>Students who reported working in self-employment, voluntary or unpaid roles are treated in the same way as those in paid employment
This seems reasonable to me.
If it’s about job training, the companies or government should pay for it.
It’s hard to argue it’s about education and personal growth and learning if it’s graded only by what job it prepares you to do.
If the fines are less than the tuition bills paid for that course, then this is paying lip service only.
People have the right to choose the degree they want if they’re bloody paying for it themselves. As long at the employment prospects are made clear at the start. Not everyone doing a degree is expecting or wanting a job at the end.
The tories continue to f**k things up and the offer salt as a band-aid. Utterly useless.
So they are trying to mess up university with vocational training schools.
All they care about is money from international students.
There are way too many universities and way too many courses that offer no real value. A degree is not the answer for everyone.
UK.. Drama continues.. Now we blame the Universities
That shouldn’t be hard for some universities. In my old uni, their philosophy was “Unless you’re going into research, we’re gonna get you a job”, and they did. If I remember right, their employment rate for students within 6 months of graduation is 97%. In their tech department, it was even higher than that.
Huh, looks like my illustration degree just became a rare collectable
How will they know? If someone is not on PAYE (postgraduate student, working through a limited company, self employed, overseas) it’s very hard to track.
I think this is fair enough, if a course is low quality then they’re basically ripping the students off
Good. Universities are private business’s offering £30k courses. They should be held accountable for the quality of those courses the same as any other service provider.
I am actually really happy to hear this.
I think I may force uni’s to provide training and focus on actual employability, and think carefully on how many people enrol!
Currently uni’s don’t care at all and just want to make a quick buck by enrolling 100’s of people.
This would hold them accountable as long as the fines are significant.
The whole reason I went to my university at the time was because they offered a 3 year degree with a year in industry. When I got to the year of industry the advice I got from the head of department was look on the stock exchange and see which companies are trading and apply for them.
My brothers uni on the other hand had companies come into the university to have interviews and placements and got a job offer out of it once he had graduated.
To say I was dissatisfied with the service was an understatement and I would have gone to a different uni had I known before.
Everyone knows the hardest parts is getting a foot in, once you are past that stepping stone its pretty easy. There should be more emphasis on work experience, some unis are very good at it where as others not so much.