my great-uncles died during Wołyń massacre, even though I support Ukraine in this war I personally feel sad that they are using it. Showing this flag to a pole is like showing swastika, and bragging about Bandera is like bragging about Hitler, it’s offensive and disgusting.
I understand it is important for Ukrainians as they were fighting for their country then. However it is good to be aware it makes sąd or angry many Polish people so politically and from friendship perspective would be good to leave it a bit if it is possible…
In Poland a lot of people see bandera as a war criminal beacause he killed a lot of poles in Wolyn. I personally do not support it
It is associated with war criminals, fascism and genocide. Polish people feel a lot when seeing those colours. Nothing positive though.
Yeah, I hate that.
I know that Ukrainians see this symbol as their fight for freedom banner, but this flag also has innocent blood on it. I wish they would just stay with their current beautiful flag.
On the positive side, closer to February there were photos of it in most pictures of Ukrainian protests, recently tho I hardly ever see it in photos, the Ukrainian flag and trident have largely replaced it as an anti russian symbol, so maybe Ukrainians have started to understand what it means to Poland. I think most Polish criticism of this flag has been calm and reasoned, and accompanied by support for Ukrainians regardless of the flag, and this gentle approach seems to have helped. I hope that Polish people see this flag less and less, and soon not at all.
Just the same as Jews feel about swastika. Same as “slava ukraini” sounds like “sieg hail”
​
p.s. This does not change that fact that I support Ukrainians in their fight against the Invasion with money and voluntary work.
Most Poles dont know about Banderas fight agains Russians. Most Ukrainians have no clue about Wołyń. (this is my personal observation)
Any Ukrainian who supports this flag is free to go back to their country
Basically its equal to swastika/nazi Germany’s flag, it should be banned same as those symbols
Some time ago i was talking with a guy from ukraine about this (we were drunk btw) And basically he told me that Bandera was known as a hero and liberator. Also he said that Wołyń while indeed happen, poles were taught about it by a communist state which was not exactly the most trustworthy, and so the amounts of people reported killed etc. are blown out of proportion. I imagine that ukrainians are also taught more about UPAs accomplishments and the morally worse actions are shown to them in a diminished version. As that’s how teaching history of your own country usually goes.
So i see why ukrainians want to use it, i also see why poles don’t like it. Personally i don’t care as it’s in the past.
Also, apparently Jinjer is the worst, most hated by ukrainians, russia-supporting metal band. Anyone has thougths on this? :0
My granddad, lived with his mother, stepfather and stepbrother in a village near Bielska Wola, now Ukraine. During WWII as he told, German troops were mostly quite cultural, they were buying stuff like milk and fruits from them, basically there were no incidents. One day as he described a a higher ranked Wermacht oficer came to the village and told that on the next day there will be a train on Bielska Wola station where volunteers can go to work in western Germany. And if there’s anyone who doesn’t want to go, it’s ok, but the next day the Ukrainians will come and slaughter every single Pole. So my granddad’s family decided that they “voluntarily” will go to work in western Germany.
He also had many memories from the time where he and the rest of the family worked on a huge farm owned by some rich guy who also had lumber mills in Canada. When the war was coming to the end and US troops secured the place where they lived, the land owner offered my grandfather’s stepdad a job as a accountant in Canada, but my great grandmother refused.
In conclusion, this flag for me personally is the same as red white and black swastika logo, without the swastika.
NO.
If someone raises this flag in Poland, he must learn a lesson, taught carefully by a group of Kibole
It’s weird but i feel like i’ve seen this question a few times here already
This is one thing i hate on ukrainians, many people of my family died in this.
It is the same as some Germans would use their old nazi flags. The only difference is that the Germans feel sorry and ashamed of what they did, Ukrainians are not.
A lot of Ukrainians that wear this flag are usually accompanied by Nazi symbols, including soldiers, which is bizarre considering what Nazis thought of Ukrainians. If Nazis won the WW2 there would be no Ukrainian alive today. To me this flag pretty much supports the Russian narrative. Either way, slava Ukraini.
Those colours aren’t only “harmful ” for Poles , other ethnic minorities include : Ukrainians (sic❗) Czechs, Jews , Armenians…
Garbage
Polish people associate it with war crimes. Ukrainian people associate it with fighting for freedom. I have mixed feeling because of the war crimes but they are not using it in bad intention
Mogą sobie wtedy wracać na Ukrainę
We have bad people using Home Army symbols together with neo-nazi symbols. Ukrainians have good people using UPA symbols. Perhaps symbols don’t matter that much.
Bandera=poop
Swastika/ hammer&sickle equivalent. Symbol of genocide, barbarism, mass murders. Any Ukrainian that flaunts this flag in POLAND can fuck off to their own country.
I will never ever accept UPA or Bandera as something normal.
If i saw one in my city i would make them go back to Ukraine. For real supporing UPA is Like spitting in Poles face. They are not welcome here
As if someone had spit in my face
Not a Pole but I imagine flying such a flag must be offensive as hell, especially considering the history and symbolism of it….
I dont like it
For me as a pole living in a pretty conservative community, I hear it a lot when it’s mentioned that the UPA are bandits, criminals, etc. So when the flag of UPA is shown, and even worse glorified by ukrainians, a lot of poles switch onto hate mode, and start talking about how UPA was bad, and how Poland is getting ukranized.
If Ukrainians want to be friends with Poles, they should forgo bandera (small case purposely) and UPA related things.
Everyone who is praising bandera or waving UPA flag is just asking for problems and hostility. It’s almost like Hitler and the swastika for Jews.
Like getting slapped in my face with a hammer. 4 people from my family (2 grown ups, 2 kids) were burned alive in a barn in Wołyń massacre.
This is the enemy’s flag.
Fuck UPA and azov cocksuckers. I support Ukraine in the current conflict because a strong independent Ukraine is beneficial to Polish security. Thats it. No love for Ukr nationalists.
I am Ukrainian and i am disgusted that this Nazi shit is becoming a mainstream thing.
Well hmm one time I was playing Njet Vladimir to show my support for Ukraine, but my stepdad actually interrupted me, and in a weirdly uncharacteristically hostile way commanded me to ‘turn that off’. Really, as I said, not in his character to be so hostile and commanding.
And when I inquired, we ended up having quite a sour encounter where he shortly and with restraint “explained” that his dad fought against the UPA, and brought various graphic stories back home with him. Stepdad said that because of those stories he ‘hates hearing both Ukrainian and Russian because it’s all the same’ (hates hearing Russian because of communism). One example of his dad’s testimonies, quote on quote: “The Ukrainians were that sort of nation where they would [torment/attack/kill you] if you even looked at them the wrong way”.
I didn’t know this, all I could do is direct-stare awkwardly, I was taken aback, and for the rest of the day and a few days after I had a permenent urge to just break out crying, my mood was completely killed, and it was all I could think about for that time. I had no idea that I’d activate someone’s PTSD through showing my support for Ukraine. Especially not of someone so close to me (a substitute to my dead dad).
I just want to remind that red and black Ukrainian flag has a very long history and historically have been a flag of Ukraine during wartimes. It’s been the flag of Ukraine long before UPA.
Yes, definitely UPA has caused a lot of atrocities and war crimes, that’s true. We never denied it, and the shame is in our hearts for that times. And yes, a lot of ukrainians consider UPA as heroes, who fought both nazis and soviets for our freedom. And it doesn’t make an excuse for massacres of poles. That’s a very dark page of our history.
But, in my opinion, the flag doesn’t represent it. It’s an horrible mistake that made it’s stain on it.
Take a look at the picture of Repin. You can see that one cossack is holding blue and yellow flag, and the other guy is holding black and red flag https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B6%D1%86%D1%96_(%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0)#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg
I feel the same way I feel about Polish fascism: “Idiots, yawn”. Some people react to it pointing out historical injustice, but I believe our boys just haven’t got a chance to fully “utilise their true potential”, but also that a lot of this potential is passive aggression no less vicious than bloodlust. Either way it’s inconsiderate. Historical figures should be described accurately, not turned into myths and idolized.
But it’s not a problem to worry about right now. We need to do our best to keep our relations soft and cosy until the things stabilise. Then we can talk. The last eight years Ukrainians were overloaded with bad luck so much, that holding them to higher standards was almost an act of aggression itself. They are often holding on to whatever national pride they can find, even if it means waving a bloody flag. It’s sad, but also it’s not the end of the world.
I think that any Ukrainian that supports this flag, UPA or Bandera should be instantly deported back to Ukraine.
During the war, my great grandfather (Polish, married to a Ukrainian woman) was killed by Polish guerilla warriors thinking that he was Ukrainian. Just killed in front of his hiding wife’s and my grandpa’s eyes – after they stole some food and valuables.
Some parts of the family were Poles killed by UPA warriors, some were Ukrainians killed by AK…
War, especially guerilla war, is always awful. That being said, UPA was fuller of bandits than AK. There were war criminals on both sides, doing unforgivable acts, and there were idealistic heroes.
Bandera was a fascist bandit and the flag shouldn’t be used. Poles commited war crimes too. Was he a hero? Not really, definitely at least in part fought for a free Ukraine, but commited acts which are not to be excused. Same is true for some Polish ‘heroes’, albeit on a smaller scale.
It’s best the nations acknowledge that part of history, that both apologise (while Ukraine has more to apologise for) and move on, abandoning all harmful symbolism. I love the colours and symbolism of the red black flag, but I can’t support it because of what it stood for.
41 comments
my great-uncles died during Wołyń massacre, even though I support Ukraine in this war I personally feel sad that they are using it. Showing this flag to a pole is like showing swastika, and bragging about Bandera is like bragging about Hitler, it’s offensive and disgusting.
I understand it is important for Ukrainians as they were fighting for their country then. However it is good to be aware it makes sąd or angry many Polish people so politically and from friendship perspective would be good to leave it a bit if it is possible…
In Poland a lot of people see bandera as a war criminal beacause he killed a lot of poles in Wolyn. I personally do not support it
It is associated with war criminals, fascism and genocide. Polish people feel a lot when seeing those colours. Nothing positive though.
Yeah, I hate that.
I know that Ukrainians see this symbol as their fight for freedom banner, but this flag also has innocent blood on it. I wish they would just stay with their current beautiful flag.
On the positive side, closer to February there were photos of it in most pictures of Ukrainian protests, recently tho I hardly ever see it in photos, the Ukrainian flag and trident have largely replaced it as an anti russian symbol, so maybe Ukrainians have started to understand what it means to Poland. I think most Polish criticism of this flag has been calm and reasoned, and accompanied by support for Ukrainians regardless of the flag, and this gentle approach seems to have helped. I hope that Polish people see this flag less and less, and soon not at all.
Just the same as Jews feel about swastika. Same as “slava ukraini” sounds like “sieg hail”
​
p.s. This does not change that fact that I support Ukrainians in their fight against the Invasion with money and voluntary work.
Most Poles dont know about Banderas fight agains Russians. Most Ukrainians have no clue about Wołyń. (this is my personal observation)
Any Ukrainian who supports this flag is free to go back to their country
Basically its equal to swastika/nazi Germany’s flag, it should be banned same as those symbols
Some time ago i was talking with a guy from ukraine about this (we were drunk btw) And basically he told me that Bandera was known as a hero and liberator. Also he said that Wołyń while indeed happen, poles were taught about it by a communist state which was not exactly the most trustworthy, and so the amounts of people reported killed etc. are blown out of proportion. I imagine that ukrainians are also taught more about UPAs accomplishments and the morally worse actions are shown to them in a diminished version. As that’s how teaching history of your own country usually goes.
So i see why ukrainians want to use it, i also see why poles don’t like it. Personally i don’t care as it’s in the past.
Also, apparently Jinjer is the worst, most hated by ukrainians, russia-supporting metal band. Anyone has thougths on this? :0
My granddad, lived with his mother, stepfather and stepbrother in a village near Bielska Wola, now Ukraine. During WWII as he told, German troops were mostly quite cultural, they were buying stuff like milk and fruits from them, basically there were no incidents. One day as he described a a higher ranked Wermacht oficer came to the village and told that on the next day there will be a train on Bielska Wola station where volunteers can go to work in western Germany. And if there’s anyone who doesn’t want to go, it’s ok, but the next day the Ukrainians will come and slaughter every single Pole. So my granddad’s family decided that they “voluntarily” will go to work in western Germany.
He also had many memories from the time where he and the rest of the family worked on a huge farm owned by some rich guy who also had lumber mills in Canada. When the war was coming to the end and US troops secured the place where they lived, the land owner offered my grandfather’s stepdad a job as a accountant in Canada, but my great grandmother refused.
In conclusion, this flag for me personally is the same as red white and black swastika logo, without the swastika.
NO.
If someone raises this flag in Poland, he must learn a lesson, taught carefully by a group of Kibole
It’s weird but i feel like i’ve seen this question a few times here already
This is one thing i hate on ukrainians, many people of my family died in this.
It is the same as some Germans would use their old nazi flags. The only difference is that the Germans feel sorry and ashamed of what they did, Ukrainians are not.
A lot of Ukrainians that wear this flag are usually accompanied by Nazi symbols, including soldiers, which is bizarre considering what Nazis thought of Ukrainians. If Nazis won the WW2 there would be no Ukrainian alive today. To me this flag pretty much supports the Russian narrative. Either way, slava Ukraini.
Those colours aren’t only “harmful ” for Poles , other ethnic minorities include : Ukrainians (sic❗) Czechs, Jews , Armenians…
Garbage
Polish people associate it with war crimes. Ukrainian people associate it with fighting for freedom. I have mixed feeling because of the war crimes but they are not using it in bad intention
Mogą sobie wtedy wracać na Ukrainę
We have bad people using Home Army symbols together with neo-nazi symbols. Ukrainians have good people using UPA symbols. Perhaps symbols don’t matter that much.
Bandera=poop
Swastika/ hammer&sickle equivalent. Symbol of genocide, barbarism, mass murders. Any Ukrainian that flaunts this flag in POLAND can fuck off to their own country.
I will never ever accept UPA or Bandera as something normal.
If i saw one in my city i would make them go back to Ukraine. For real supporing UPA is Like spitting in Poles face. They are not welcome here
As if someone had spit in my face
Not a Pole but I imagine flying such a flag must be offensive as hell, especially considering the history and symbolism of it….
I dont like it
For me as a pole living in a pretty conservative community, I hear it a lot when it’s mentioned that the UPA are bandits, criminals, etc. So when the flag of UPA is shown, and even worse glorified by ukrainians, a lot of poles switch onto hate mode, and start talking about how UPA was bad, and how Poland is getting ukranized.
If Ukrainians want to be friends with Poles, they should forgo bandera (small case purposely) and UPA related things.
Everyone who is praising bandera or waving UPA flag is just asking for problems and hostility. It’s almost like Hitler and the swastika for Jews.
Like getting slapped in my face with a hammer. 4 people from my family (2 grown ups, 2 kids) were burned alive in a barn in Wołyń massacre.
This is the enemy’s flag.
Fuck UPA and azov cocksuckers. I support Ukraine in the current conflict because a strong independent Ukraine is beneficial to Polish security. Thats it. No love for Ukr nationalists.
Their choice🤷
UPA (B) Scum : Bandera, Shukevych , Klachkivsky , Konovalec
I am Ukrainian and i am disgusted that this Nazi shit is becoming a mainstream thing.
Well hmm one time I was playing Njet Vladimir to show my support for Ukraine, but my stepdad actually interrupted me, and in a weirdly uncharacteristically hostile way commanded me to ‘turn that off’. Really, as I said, not in his character to be so hostile and commanding.
And when I inquired, we ended up having quite a sour encounter where he shortly and with restraint “explained” that his dad fought against the UPA, and brought various graphic stories back home with him. Stepdad said that because of those stories he ‘hates hearing both Ukrainian and Russian because it’s all the same’ (hates hearing Russian because of communism). One example of his dad’s testimonies, quote on quote: “The Ukrainians were that sort of nation where they would [torment/attack/kill you] if you even looked at them the wrong way”.
I didn’t know this, all I could do is direct-stare awkwardly, I was taken aback, and for the rest of the day and a few days after I had a permenent urge to just break out crying, my mood was completely killed, and it was all I could think about for that time. I had no idea that I’d activate someone’s PTSD through showing my support for Ukraine. Especially not of someone so close to me (a substitute to my dead dad).
I just want to remind that red and black Ukrainian flag has a very long history and historically have been a flag of Ukraine during wartimes. It’s been the flag of Ukraine long before UPA.
Yes, definitely UPA has caused a lot of atrocities and war crimes, that’s true. We never denied it, and the shame is in our hearts for that times. And yes, a lot of ukrainians consider UPA as heroes, who fought both nazis and soviets for our freedom. And it doesn’t make an excuse for massacres of poles. That’s a very dark page of our history.
But, in my opinion, the flag doesn’t represent it. It’s an horrible mistake that made it’s stain on it.
Take a look at the picture of Repin. You can see that one cossack is holding blue and yellow flag, and the other guy is holding black and red flag
https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B6%D1%86%D1%96_(%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0)#/media/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Ilja_Jefimowitsch_Repin_-_Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks_-_Yorck.jpg
I feel the same way I feel about Polish fascism: “Idiots, yawn”. Some people react to it pointing out historical injustice, but I believe our boys just haven’t got a chance to fully “utilise their true potential”, but also that a lot of this potential is passive aggression no less vicious than bloodlust. Either way it’s inconsiderate. Historical figures should be described accurately, not turned into myths and idolized.
But it’s not a problem to worry about right now. We need to do our best to keep our relations soft and cosy until the things stabilise. Then we can talk. The last eight years Ukrainians were overloaded with bad luck so much, that holding them to higher standards was almost an act of aggression itself. They are often holding on to whatever national pride they can find, even if it means waving a bloody flag. It’s sad, but also it’s not the end of the world.
I think that any Ukrainian that supports this flag, UPA or Bandera should be instantly deported back to Ukraine.
During the war, my great grandfather (Polish, married to a Ukrainian woman) was killed by Polish guerilla warriors thinking that he was Ukrainian. Just killed in front of his hiding wife’s and my grandpa’s eyes – after they stole some food and valuables.
Some parts of the family were Poles killed by UPA warriors, some were Ukrainians killed by AK…
War, especially guerilla war, is always awful. That being said, UPA was fuller of bandits than AK. There were war criminals on both sides, doing unforgivable acts, and there were idealistic heroes.
Bandera was a fascist bandit and the flag shouldn’t be used. Poles commited war crimes too. Was he a hero? Not really, definitely at least in part fought for a free Ukraine, but commited acts which are not to be excused. Same is true for some Polish ‘heroes’, albeit on a smaller scale.
It’s best the nations acknowledge that part of history, that both apologise (while Ukraine has more to apologise for) and move on, abandoning all harmful symbolism. I love the colours and symbolism of the red black flag, but I can’t support it because of what it stood for.