That’s a lovely well written article. I think it greatly sums up the general consensus about it. That we’re too late in the game for ignorance. And the pooh-poohing of the situation with ‘oh the English colonised loads of people they can’t learn about it all’ well, we’re their neighbour, they occupy the top of our country. They could at least do us the decency of being respectful and learning the basics.
An English man summed it up quite well here last year.
He pointed out that the UK makes up a significant part of Irish history and Ireland only takes up a tiny part of theirs.
For all the colonial misdeeds that were committed, why single out Ireland instead if India for example?
As people say UK history is massive from Africa to US to India, no one gives a crap just because they border Ireland that they need exclusively to know any Irish history, that’s like saying kids in school here should learn French history or US, sure they are closest countries as well and one would be well off to know history and struggling in depth, but to put it simply each country has its own extensive history and they focus on that, and with wealth of information nowadays if someone doesn’t want to be complete gimp they can research history of any countries they like and educate themselves on their own time.
This cry the Brits occupied Ireland and can’t get it right won’t change anyone.
“You’re from Dublin? Is that Suffen or Norfen Ireland?”
It’s a mix of ignorance and apathy, and at the top level it’s fairly wilful distortion of history. If all of a sudden there were aspects of Britain’s colonial history on the syllabus at schools, there’d be riots, especially with the nationalism that’s flourished for Brexit.
Those who know about Britain’s checkered history don’t want those who don’t know about it to learn. And anything that doesn’t make them look like benevolent leaders who have helped the savages crawl out of the muck and shite over the past few hundred years is already buried under their own narcissistic pride of being British
I lived in the UK for years and was once called a prick and told to go back to my mother country. My nickname was ‘Irish’ and the potato jokes flowed like water. That was from the ignorant.
But any real change in learning from the UK’s real bloodsoaked history has to come from the top, and the world can see who’s on top right now. They don’t care about Brits that are not in the aristocratic class. They certainly don’t give a shit about the former colonies.
The comments in the UK thread are absurd.
The Romans were more important to UK history than what happened in the actual UK only a century ago.
Key stage 3 history recommends the following areas of study for the part of the curriculum that covers ‘ideas, political power, industry and empire’:
>* the Enlightenment in Europe and Britain, with links back to 17th-century thinkers and scientists and the founding of the Royal Society
>* Britain’s transatlantic slave trade: its effects and its eventual abolition
>* the Seven Years War and The American War of Independence
>* the French Revolutionary wars
>* Britain as the first industrial nation – the impact on society
>* party politics, extension of the franchise and social reform
>* the development of the British Empire with a depth study (for example, of India)
>* **Ireland and Home Rule**
>* Darwin’s ‘On The Origin of Species’
I believe it’s up to schools/teachers what they actually want to teach out of all of that, but I think we can agree they’re all pretty strong contenders for ‘important history’.
Obviously not all will get taught, due to limited time. Realistically teachers will probably only get to teach 3 or so of those bullet points.
I can’t blame them for leaving out Ireland, when Ireland is up against stuff like the transatlantic slave trade, Darwin, and the industrial revolution.
Ireland is a footnote in history compared to those things and their influences. I know that will rile people up here, but it’s the truth.
Obviously it takes center stage in Ireland, because it’s the history of Ireland. It’s to be expected.
But the UK just has a lot of history to cover, and Ireland isn’t particularly special in that regard.
I mean, shit… India is on that list!
It’s not just Irish history that’s ignored in the Uk there’s a lot that isn’t taught or has the negative sides of things removed, Churchill for example is hailed as a hero. When infant he was part of the Indian famine, Mers El Kabir, and had a lot of play in the Republic to name some. But it’s all skipped over because he helped win world war 2.
I moved to Ireland from the Uk and none of anything about how Ireland was formed was taught, I learned that when I moved here.
bit fuckin late Jennifer
>When British schools ignore Irish history, is it any wonder Brexit is such a mess?
Too be fair we don’t even learn everything about our own history. The Desmond wars , nine years war, dhá rialta, 1798 rebellion, Robert emmet, fenland rebellion.
I think complaining that another country is not teaching about our history is a very entitled point of view. There’s plenty about English history I never learned and had to do so myself.
I’m curious – the latest Last Week Tonight episode focused on the British museums theft and continued hoarding of cultural artifacts from around the world. Their reasonings are shit of course, but even more damning they only display a small fraction and there are millions of objects in their archives in boxes…What are some of the important Irish artifacts that they have? Like do they have a transparent catalogue list or is there a high chance we don’t even know what they have of ours? Would wonder about harps for example as so many were destroyed
Something I learned recently is that british schools are just way, waaaay worse than we realise here. It’s bitter to think the school system is trying to hide oppression and misdeeds, when in reality, it really is just shit across the board.
I’ve started meeting english people from small towns I’d never heard of, and when I ask them where it is in the country – they don’t actually fucking know. It’s baffling. They don’t know if their town is in the north, south, middle of the country. I met a girl from watford and asked here where’s that in the country, she said south east london, so I said oh so near millwall. Where’s millwall she says… south east london I say… so we google watford and it’s literally north west london.
When I first met my now best friend in University in Scotland in 2007. She couldn’t believe we used the Euro and not the pound. She had absolutely no knowledge about the republic of Ireland. Has she said… They just weren’t taught about Ireland in Scotland.
i went to secondary school in the uk so i was taught a bit of history from the uk perspective.
the british empire was taught to me like it was some far away, almost ancient dynasty. we focussed a lot on india and australia possibly because it’s easier to see them now as completely foreign as compared to ireland which shares a long and complex history whilst still being culturally and geographically intertwined.
looking back it was an awful way to teach it, my teacher was a classic brexity tory guy and the things we learned when i was 13 was absolutely not a true reflection of the atrocities and awfulness of colonialism, rather focusing on how great the empire was and how amazing ‘the sun never set’ on the empire. so it’s honestly no wonder why so many british people are so ignorant to the history and dynamics between ireland and uk. especially when you compare that to the education irish people get.
How much British history do we study?
Very well written. Cements what I for a long time have thought happens within the UK’s education system.
It’s sad but at this stage not entirely unexpected.
What does “pure millennium bug stuff” even mean?
Colonialism is taught as if it was a natural disaster like an earthquake in the U.K.
Even for all of our insanity, the US public schools are actually coming to terms with our country’s history of oppression. Textbooks have been more accurate. Most students in primary school are aware by about 9 years old about the history of slavery and genocide of our indigenous people. This is happening despite all the ridiculous fundamental Christian’s trying to eliminate any talk of racism. It is so important to try to give the young generation an accurate sense of history, even if that means admitting that there were many atrocities .
A British guy started dating my sister in law in the UK, he started going to Irish pubs with her and getting into Irish bands and within 6 months he was just shocked by how little he knew about Ireland and Irish history. Any time you’d meet him he’d be going on about “the troubles” and how badly the Irish were treated.
Mind you after they eventually divorced and she took him for half his house I’d guess he was cursing the Irish again and saying the famine didn’t do half enough
English person here.
I really don’t understand how the general awareness of British colonialism can be so poor in the UK. I grew up reading Horrible Histories which are very explicit about the reality of British imperialism and feel no need to be morally neutral. At 12 I was reading about massacres in India and understood that the Empire was rife with violence, murder and war. Sure, most countries avoid talking about the bad shit they did but I thought it was all generally common knowledge. I figured people maybe don’t know details but they are aware that the UK did bad shit right?
I’m genuinely shocked by some of the tales of ignorance Irish people share here. I would be stunned if any other British person I knew didn’t know that Ireland is a separate country, uses the euro etc. but apparently it’s not uncommon. I figured this shit was common knowledge, basic geography and whatnot. Guess not.
21 comments
That’s a lovely well written article. I think it greatly sums up the general consensus about it. That we’re too late in the game for ignorance. And the pooh-poohing of the situation with ‘oh the English colonised loads of people they can’t learn about it all’ well, we’re their neighbour, they occupy the top of our country. They could at least do us the decency of being respectful and learning the basics.
An English man summed it up quite well here last year.
He pointed out that the UK makes up a significant part of Irish history and Ireland only takes up a tiny part of theirs.
For all the colonial misdeeds that were committed, why single out Ireland instead if India for example?
As people say UK history is massive from Africa to US to India, no one gives a crap just because they border Ireland that they need exclusively to know any Irish history, that’s like saying kids in school here should learn French history or US, sure they are closest countries as well and one would be well off to know history and struggling in depth, but to put it simply each country has its own extensive history and they focus on that, and with wealth of information nowadays if someone doesn’t want to be complete gimp they can research history of any countries they like and educate themselves on their own time.
This cry the Brits occupied Ireland and can’t get it right won’t change anyone.
“You’re from Dublin? Is that Suffen or Norfen Ireland?”
It’s a mix of ignorance and apathy, and at the top level it’s fairly wilful distortion of history. If all of a sudden there were aspects of Britain’s colonial history on the syllabus at schools, there’d be riots, especially with the nationalism that’s flourished for Brexit.
Those who know about Britain’s checkered history don’t want those who don’t know about it to learn. And anything that doesn’t make them look like benevolent leaders who have helped the savages crawl out of the muck and shite over the past few hundred years is already buried under their own narcissistic pride of being British
I lived in the UK for years and was once called a prick and told to go back to my mother country. My nickname was ‘Irish’ and the potato jokes flowed like water. That was from the ignorant.
But any real change in learning from the UK’s real bloodsoaked history has to come from the top, and the world can see who’s on top right now. They don’t care about Brits that are not in the aristocratic class. They certainly don’t give a shit about the former colonies.
The comments in the UK thread are absurd.
The Romans were more important to UK history than what happened in the actual UK only a century ago.
You can’t make this shit up.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-history-programmes-of-study/national-curriculum-in-england-history-programmes-of-study
Key stage 3 history recommends the following areas of study for the part of the curriculum that covers ‘ideas, political power, industry and empire’:
>* the Enlightenment in Europe and Britain, with links back to 17th-century thinkers and scientists and the founding of the Royal Society
>* Britain’s transatlantic slave trade: its effects and its eventual abolition
>* the Seven Years War and The American War of Independence
>* the French Revolutionary wars
>* Britain as the first industrial nation – the impact on society
>* party politics, extension of the franchise and social reform
>* the development of the British Empire with a depth study (for example, of India)
>* **Ireland and Home Rule**
>* Darwin’s ‘On The Origin of Species’
I believe it’s up to schools/teachers what they actually want to teach out of all of that, but I think we can agree they’re all pretty strong contenders for ‘important history’.
Obviously not all will get taught, due to limited time. Realistically teachers will probably only get to teach 3 or so of those bullet points.
I can’t blame them for leaving out Ireland, when Ireland is up against stuff like the transatlantic slave trade, Darwin, and the industrial revolution.
Ireland is a footnote in history compared to those things and their influences. I know that will rile people up here, but it’s the truth.
Obviously it takes center stage in Ireland, because it’s the history of Ireland. It’s to be expected.
But the UK just has a lot of history to cover, and Ireland isn’t particularly special in that regard.
I mean, shit… India is on that list!
It’s not just Irish history that’s ignored in the Uk there’s a lot that isn’t taught or has the negative sides of things removed, Churchill for example is hailed as a hero. When infant he was part of the Indian famine, Mers El Kabir, and had a lot of play in the Republic to name some. But it’s all skipped over because he helped win world war 2.
I moved to Ireland from the Uk and none of anything about how Ireland was formed was taught, I learned that when I moved here.
bit fuckin late Jennifer
>When British schools ignore Irish history, is it any wonder Brexit is such a mess?
Too be fair we don’t even learn everything about our own history. The Desmond wars , nine years war, dhá rialta, 1798 rebellion, Robert emmet, fenland rebellion.
I think complaining that another country is not teaching about our history is a very entitled point of view. There’s plenty about English history I never learned and had to do so myself.
I’m curious – the latest Last Week Tonight episode focused on the British museums theft and continued hoarding of cultural artifacts from around the world. Their reasonings are shit of course, but even more damning they only display a small fraction and there are millions of objects in their archives in boxes…What are some of the important Irish artifacts that they have? Like do they have a transparent catalogue list or is there a high chance we don’t even know what they have of ours? Would wonder about harps for example as so many were destroyed
Something I learned recently is that british schools are just way, waaaay worse than we realise here. It’s bitter to think the school system is trying to hide oppression and misdeeds, when in reality, it really is just shit across the board.
I’ve started meeting english people from small towns I’d never heard of, and when I ask them where it is in the country – they don’t actually fucking know. It’s baffling. They don’t know if their town is in the north, south, middle of the country. I met a girl from watford and asked here where’s that in the country, she said south east london, so I said oh so near millwall. Where’s millwall she says… south east london I say… so we google watford and it’s literally north west london.
When I first met my now best friend in University in Scotland in 2007. She couldn’t believe we used the Euro and not the pound. She had absolutely no knowledge about the republic of Ireland. Has she said… They just weren’t taught about Ireland in Scotland.
i went to secondary school in the uk so i was taught a bit of history from the uk perspective.
the british empire was taught to me like it was some far away, almost ancient dynasty. we focussed a lot on india and australia possibly because it’s easier to see them now as completely foreign as compared to ireland which shares a long and complex history whilst still being culturally and geographically intertwined.
looking back it was an awful way to teach it, my teacher was a classic brexity tory guy and the things we learned when i was 13 was absolutely not a true reflection of the atrocities and awfulness of colonialism, rather focusing on how great the empire was and how amazing ‘the sun never set’ on the empire. so it’s honestly no wonder why so many british people are so ignorant to the history and dynamics between ireland and uk. especially when you compare that to the education irish people get.
How much British history do we study?
Very well written. Cements what I for a long time have thought happens within the UK’s education system.
It’s sad but at this stage not entirely unexpected.
What does “pure millennium bug stuff” even mean?
Colonialism is taught as if it was a natural disaster like an earthquake in the U.K.
Even for all of our insanity, the US public schools are actually coming to terms with our country’s history of oppression. Textbooks have been more accurate. Most students in primary school are aware by about 9 years old about the history of slavery and genocide of our indigenous people. This is happening despite all the ridiculous fundamental Christian’s trying to eliminate any talk of racism. It is so important to try to give the young generation an accurate sense of history, even if that means admitting that there were many atrocities .
A British guy started dating my sister in law in the UK, he started going to Irish pubs with her and getting into Irish bands and within 6 months he was just shocked by how little he knew about Ireland and Irish history. Any time you’d meet him he’d be going on about “the troubles” and how badly the Irish were treated.
Mind you after they eventually divorced and she took him for half his house I’d guess he was cursing the Irish again and saying the famine didn’t do half enough
English person here.
I really don’t understand how the general awareness of British colonialism can be so poor in the UK. I grew up reading Horrible Histories which are very explicit about the reality of British imperialism and feel no need to be morally neutral. At 12 I was reading about massacres in India and understood that the Empire was rife with violence, murder and war. Sure, most countries avoid talking about the bad shit they did but I thought it was all generally common knowledge. I figured people maybe don’t know details but they are aware that the UK did bad shit right?
I’m genuinely shocked by some of the tales of ignorance Irish people share here. I would be stunned if any other British person I knew didn’t know that Ireland is a separate country, uses the euro etc. but apparently it’s not uncommon. I figured this shit was common knowledge, basic geography and whatnot. Guess not.