Sad. Impossible to know what sort of medical incident he was having at this stage so hopefully the post mortem will provide answers. The media will be quick to blame the police I’m sure.
[deleted]
It’s a point of thought that they used a pepper spray rather than a taser in this incident. The deceased must have had some kind of allergic reaction to this spray, which when you think about it “should” be safer as a means of restraint over a taser which can effect the heart directly.
I wonder if it’s worth police carrying adrenaline pens or a similar counter measure to whatever restraining spray substance they are carrying?
Dose it matter how he was dressed . I hate this sort of headline grabber
Tragic, easy to blame the police, but I feel waiting for the post mortem report is key
If someone is screaming and hysterically trying to struggle away from being restrained what is the protocol for dealing with that? It should theoretically be impossible to kill someone directly if you’re not compressing their chest/neck, not covering their mouth etc. I restrain animals at work that sometimes freak out – we often have to basically let go if they get too stressed because of you just keep on holding tighter they’ll turn blue trying to struggle. It doesn’t mean you lose control of them, you just release your grip and put them in a secure area they can’t escape from and let them calm down. I’ve seen the videos out of the USA of police literally sitting/kneeling on two different people until they’re dead. Is it possible some officers don’t understand anatomy/physiology enough to retrain living things in some cases? They just increase force used in the face of struggling? I’m pro police and even considering being a special but this issue keeping coming up and is very puzzling. Of course maybe something else happened to the man.
Hasn’t really ‘sparked’ a watchdog investigation. It’s literally standard protocol that any death, or serious injury (including a broken bone or even tooth) during police contact, or even several days after police contact (that contact might be stopping to have a chat with somebody) gets routinely investigated as a matter of course. That’s the transparency that everyone would rightly want, I just wish reporters would do the same courtesy.
This is like the 3rd death from police in a month or something. They seem to really upping their game, probably to get us used to it for when all the cuts come and the protests start. And slowly one by one protesters start to go missing only to be taken to Downing Street. Where Truss and her Tory cronies have taken to straight up human sacrifices to the Great 1% God of Capitalism.
Watch the comments be like “if he didn’t want to get killed by police he shouldn’t have let himself get distressed”. LBC viewers lol
In all seriousness my heart actually does go out to everyone in this situation to some extent, this is exactly what happens when health services are stretched to breaking point and this is exactly what happens when mental health services are inaccessible and both is the case in this country. The police should not have to deal with this as the sole responders, full stop.
So before everyone gets carried away, lets just break down some information.
We do not know what has happened here. Humans can die from relatively minor trauma. They can also die from stress. If you are kicking and screaming, regardless of WHY, and you are being restrained, you can die from a heart attack.
If you have a mental health episode in the UK, someone might call an ambulance. Based on the description on the phone, they may also send police. This can include if someone is in immediate danger, threatening, being violent, etc.
The paramedics, if they need additional support, or feel theirs or anyone else’s safety is threatened, may request police.
The police have training to deescalate situations, as do the other emergency services.
Sometimes people need to be restrained – It’s just a reality of the world. I think a lot of young people have visions of mental health problems as being a bit sad, or anxious about stuff. There is a stark reality in the difference between this and someone who requires restraint.
The British police are really, really good, regardless of what reddit has told you to think. I can’t think of another police force I would take over them, globally.
What a terrible tragedy. I work in mental health and have unfortunately heard of this sort of thing occurring. Hopefully the investigation will clear up the type of medical incident the individual had. I hope the officers are okay too, thats a traumatic thing to hapen while your trying to help someone
I’ve been restrained by the police and its not fun. (UK obviously, wouldn’t be usa or id be in a wheelchair)
If i was having a heart attack and they restrained me like they did, id probably be dead too.
The “Independent” investigation will find they did everything perfectly and the cops involved will get promoted.
Was defo a crackhead who’s death was his own fault
This would only result in police to be increasingly becoming more inefficient because they are afraid of offending the media.
Here is an idea for all you Police haters. Lobby your MP to allow Ambulance staff to 136 people having a mental breakdown who are a risk to themselves and others in public. Give the ambulance staff a five day one off introduction to use of force techniques including restraint and then a follow up one day a year (8 hour) refresher. This is what training police get. End result is no Police dealing with mental people allowing Police more time to catch burglars and rapists and it’s ambulance staff getting the grief when someone dies. This is what the Police want.
The problem is the police don’t recognise medical issues. We reported my dad missing and the police found him slumped in a crashed car after reports of a drink drive driving 2 miles on alloy rims. I was out looking for him and they called me as they’d found him, and I turned up on scene and they were trying to breathalyse, he was really confused and couldn’t remember anything, but my partner managed to coach him through a breathalyser, which he blew 0 on. The officer then said “well we don’t know what’s happened but he’s not been drunk driving so we’d just normally take him home now, but as you’re here you can just take him home”……. And as far as I was concerned he wasn’t acting right, so I took him to hospital and it turned out he was having a bleed on the brain.
But if they’d have taken him home and put him in bed, or arrested him for failing to provide a breathalyser sample, he’d probably be dead now. It’s only because there were relatives there to intervene that he’s ok now.
17 comments
Sad. Impossible to know what sort of medical incident he was having at this stage so hopefully the post mortem will provide answers. The media will be quick to blame the police I’m sure.
[deleted]
It’s a point of thought that they used a pepper spray rather than a taser in this incident. The deceased must have had some kind of allergic reaction to this spray, which when you think about it “should” be safer as a means of restraint over a taser which can effect the heart directly.
I wonder if it’s worth police carrying adrenaline pens or a similar counter measure to whatever restraining spray substance they are carrying?
Dose it matter how he was dressed . I hate this sort of headline grabber
Tragic, easy to blame the police, but I feel waiting for the post mortem report is key
If someone is screaming and hysterically trying to struggle away from being restrained what is the protocol for dealing with that? It should theoretically be impossible to kill someone directly if you’re not compressing their chest/neck, not covering their mouth etc. I restrain animals at work that sometimes freak out – we often have to basically let go if they get too stressed because of you just keep on holding tighter they’ll turn blue trying to struggle. It doesn’t mean you lose control of them, you just release your grip and put them in a secure area they can’t escape from and let them calm down. I’ve seen the videos out of the USA of police literally sitting/kneeling on two different people until they’re dead. Is it possible some officers don’t understand anatomy/physiology enough to retrain living things in some cases? They just increase force used in the face of struggling? I’m pro police and even considering being a special but this issue keeping coming up and is very puzzling. Of course maybe something else happened to the man.
Hasn’t really ‘sparked’ a watchdog investigation. It’s literally standard protocol that any death, or serious injury (including a broken bone or even tooth) during police contact, or even several days after police contact (that contact might be stopping to have a chat with somebody) gets routinely investigated as a matter of course. That’s the transparency that everyone would rightly want, I just wish reporters would do the same courtesy.
This is like the 3rd death from police in a month or something. They seem to really upping their game, probably to get us used to it for when all the cuts come and the protests start. And slowly one by one protesters start to go missing only to be taken to Downing Street. Where Truss and her Tory cronies have taken to straight up human sacrifices to the Great 1% God of Capitalism.
Watch the comments be like “if he didn’t want to get killed by police he shouldn’t have let himself get distressed”. LBC viewers lol
In all seriousness my heart actually does go out to everyone in this situation to some extent, this is exactly what happens when health services are stretched to breaking point and this is exactly what happens when mental health services are inaccessible and both is the case in this country. The police should not have to deal with this as the sole responders, full stop.
So before everyone gets carried away, lets just break down some information.
We do not know what has happened here. Humans can die from relatively minor trauma. They can also die from stress. If you are kicking and screaming, regardless of WHY, and you are being restrained, you can die from a heart attack.
If you have a mental health episode in the UK, someone might call an ambulance. Based on the description on the phone, they may also send police. This can include if someone is in immediate danger, threatening, being violent, etc.
The paramedics, if they need additional support, or feel theirs or anyone else’s safety is threatened, may request police.
The police have training to deescalate situations, as do the other emergency services.
Sometimes people need to be restrained – It’s just a reality of the world. I think a lot of young people have visions of mental health problems as being a bit sad, or anxious about stuff. There is a stark reality in the difference between this and someone who requires restraint.
The British police are really, really good, regardless of what reddit has told you to think. I can’t think of another police force I would take over them, globally.
What a terrible tragedy. I work in mental health and have unfortunately heard of this sort of thing occurring. Hopefully the investigation will clear up the type of medical incident the individual had. I hope the officers are okay too, thats a traumatic thing to hapen while your trying to help someone
I’ve been restrained by the police and its not fun. (UK obviously, wouldn’t be usa or id be in a wheelchair)
If i was having a heart attack and they restrained me like they did, id probably be dead too.
The “Independent” investigation will find they did everything perfectly and the cops involved will get promoted.
Was defo a crackhead who’s death was his own fault
This would only result in police to be increasingly becoming more inefficient because they are afraid of offending the media.
Here is an idea for all you Police haters. Lobby your MP to allow Ambulance staff to 136 people having a mental breakdown who are a risk to themselves and others in public. Give the ambulance staff a five day one off introduction to use of force techniques including restraint and then a follow up one day a year (8 hour) refresher. This is what training police get. End result is no Police dealing with mental people allowing Police more time to catch burglars and rapists and it’s ambulance staff getting the grief when someone dies. This is what the Police want.
The problem is the police don’t recognise medical issues. We reported my dad missing and the police found him slumped in a crashed car after reports of a drink drive driving 2 miles on alloy rims. I was out looking for him and they called me as they’d found him, and I turned up on scene and they were trying to breathalyse, he was really confused and couldn’t remember anything, but my partner managed to coach him through a breathalyser, which he blew 0 on. The officer then said “well we don’t know what’s happened but he’s not been drunk driving so we’d just normally take him home now, but as you’re here you can just take him home”……. And as far as I was concerned he wasn’t acting right, so I took him to hospital and it turned out he was having a bleed on the brain.
But if they’d have taken him home and put him in bed, or arrested him for failing to provide a breathalyser sample, he’d probably be dead now. It’s only because there were relatives there to intervene that he’s ok now.