> Some 44% of hospital consultants in England plan to leave, or take a break from working in the NHS, over the next year, according to the poll. Among consultant surgeons, the figure rises to 50%.
> The survey of almost 8,000 consultants suggested pay and pension tax arrangements among the reasons for wanting to leave.
THIS . IS . BY . DESIGN
The aim is to degrade the NHS to the point where they can claim “the only solution” is a brutal US style system.
Changing doctors pension rules to effectively force them out is just plausible deniability.
These policies will continue as long as the British Public hate immigration more than they love the NHS and as long as they hate “scroungers” more than they support a social security system that allows people in need to live in dignity.
i.e. so long as the British public keeps on electing Conservative governments.
Labour brought the number on waiting lists down from over 4million to just over 2million. The conservatives have steadily taken it back up to over 4million (and were well on the way before covid).
The two parties are not the same.
The plan is working! Really good work guys! The idiot electorate didn’t see it coming, they really will fall for anything!
*edit – shit, wrong sub sorry.*
It’s been on the brink of collapse for the last 10 fucking years…..if not longer
I hope the people responsible for this go over the coals. The NHS is a holy national treasure and lifeblood of our country. Burn in hell fascists. Social murderers.
It’s probably the only way the Tories can bring down the NHS; get the doctors to do the dirty work for them.
It’s not even primarily about money. It’s about the utter misery of management fuckwits telling you what to do all the livelong day.
I left on ill-health grounds at the age of 51. The NHS should have got 14 more years of work out of me. All they had to do was leave me alone and let me get on with it.
This the design, slow creep of private medical care, pile on more pressure, more private medical care, clap for them but don’t page them a decent wage.
Keep them spinning the plates, it goes on and on
When it finally collapses, suddenly the pressure is eased, the bureaucracy is less. But at a cost, your life becomes a figure on a spreadsheet and what it costs to keep you going.
Suddenly you are on the bronze plan, in order to have that x-ray that’s the gold plan, mental health services, that’s our platinum plan and so it continues
It’s disgusting something that was created for all, has morphed into a bloated creature that threatens to destroy itself
I get the “underfund til it fails, then privatise” plan but what I don’t get is who tf will be working in the private insurance funded hospitals that replace them.
I’m not sure they’ve thought this through!
Tories: destroy NHS
Electorate: what if we vote Tory again?
Tory voters will be ecstatic when they see how many immigrants we will have to let in to have a chance of making up for this, that goes across all levels of the NHS. We have hired a lot of new staff this year and two have been British, all the rest have been hired from abroad (none from Europe as a whole too). The problem is that this cannot last forever and eventually we will unable to be a parasite to other countries, that is when the NHS will truly crumble. Brits already do not want to work in the NHS, soon we will see immigrants displaying the same attitude.
NHS on the collapse, Pension Funds on the collapse…what next?
Maybe we could go out in the street and clap for them again?
Finally the British public will get what they’ve been voting for the past 12 years. All those Tory voters and none voters must be ecstatic, the end of the socialised health care and education on the brink.
I like any none sociopath am horrified but at least democracy is working.
Excellent opportunity for privatization! What are the odds?
If tories try and use this as an excuse to get an American style system with healthcare, the revolt will be insane. The NHS is a core part of British society and if they try and get rid of it, protests will go on forever and cripple society, they’d have no choice but to resign and call an election. They’re taking the piss and it’s not even been a month with Liz as PM
£350 Million a week for the NHS!!! Attract the best international doctors and rebuild the NHS.
Tories will now say privatising departments is the only way forward due to Covid.
Then sell bits off to their mates…
“Look, we injected some much needed capital into the NHS.
Sadly healthcare is shifting from being a right to a privilege globally. Medical professionals are no longer vocational workers (not to say that they shouldn’t be better compensated at entry levels).
I have heard that the German healthcare system is perhaps one for us to consider implementing due to the supposed balance between healthcare and compensation for medical staff.
This is because many senior NHS staff and consultants are facing yearly tax bills of tens of thousands on imaginary growth of a pension pot that doesn’t exist in reality (its a theoretical one). If you do extra work, you pay more in tax than you earn for that work. No brainier that you therefore work less or retire.
Yes they get a good public sector pension (or did), but if someone said you can retire now with a smaller pension, or work harder under worse conditions, pay more tax on pension you may never see, then get an even lower pension, what would you choose?
Consultants also put in more in pension contributions than retired consultants take out, as many dont live long after retirement. The pot, if it existed, would be in surplus due to this.
I’n going to whistle blow here but I guess it won’t mean shit and will get down voted to fuck but so be it. People need to know the truth as lives are literally at risk.
Certain trusts are now cutting the salaries of seasoned experienced safe qualified consultant to levels where someone half their experience can earn more or the SAME of at another hospital on locum rate i.e consultants on the steady salary earning the SAME as locum juniours.
It’s a race to the bottom. Trusts are reducing the salaries and overall costs to the point where consultants who have 10-20+ years experience are going abroad to Dubai etc or into the private sector and away from the NHS leaving a black hole. The problem is how the trusts are filling this black hole. They are actively poaching “consultants” from places like Nigeria, India, Myanmar etc etc the corner of the world who NEED these specialists as the lowered salaries to British consultants are not feasible, are a diamond to those they are calling in.
The problem is there is NO standardisation and most of these consultant do not meet the requirement to even become registrars in the UK and do NOT even have the basic qualifications and have the uk version of MRCP. Some of them are even lacking basic language proficiency. In some trusts even registrars in training are being asked to step up to consultants. They race to the bottom is greatly cutting the safety and clinical care given to patients and people aren’t even aware the consultant treated them for life and death situation has not even sat or passed UK grade examinations.
It’s a fucking scam. They are forcing a sub standard second class public service that will implode. And guess where your 30 year experience consultant is waiting for you when that happens? At Bupa, spire, nuffield etc etc *insert private hospital*.
This is in England as the tories strip the NHS to the bone.
I work in an NHS virology lab and we are so *goddamn* short-staffed.
Staff leave and aren’t replaced for months, or are replaced in lower numbers than we need, while the band 7s and 8s that decide upon staff numbers don’t feel the pinch.
It’s not just senior staff, Band 3 staff are fucked too.
When they were growing up, did anyone else think being a doctor was a good job, for the smartest of people?
Throwaway account because I want to chat shit on my real account:
Nhs consultant. 21k tax bill for pension this year
In defence of the government, the rules were created to prevent higher earners from over contributing to pension schemes to avoid paying income tax. Which to me seems fair. However nhs consultants have no control over how much they pay into pensions because of how the scheme works, and no control over how the tax is calculated because it is based on ‘pension growth’.
The upshot is I, like many many of my colleagues have earned 21% less gross and 31% less net this year. And this is a tax bill I have to pay. On top of a real time paycut relative to inflation like everyone else here – note: my spending power was identical 10 years ago to as it is today despite completing training and becoming a consultant over that period of time.
I don’t mind paying tax. We should all pay tax to benefit society, the problem is that as a consultant in the nhs you have no idea what your tax liability is going to be. It is actually better financially for most consultants to work less now and spend more time with their family. If I am asked to do extra work, such as an extra theatre list to help with waiting lists, it is either in exchange for time off (which just keeps waiting lists the same as they are, so kind of pointless) or just not to say no as I can’t afford to do it and would rather spend the time with my kids – the way taxation works means that I’m either doing it for free or potentially even paying for doing it myself depending on how the pension growth will be calculated next year.
This Tory government is the anti growth government. Don’t let them tell you otherwise. Making the majority of the electorate poorer while benefitting the super rich does not grow your local area or the country. It only grows offshore accounts.
While I appreciate I seem like a high earner compared to most of you here and am complaining – we have way more in common than you think. The biggest trick the Tories pulled was making people think that having any sort of disposable income made you a Tory. You aren’t. But depressing, the electorate seems to have fallen for it.
I have always been vehemently against private practice, and don’t currently do any. However it’s reached the stage, with the current financial outlook, and current government in charge, if a private company were to offer me a significant salary uplift, I’d now say yes. And as an environmental soft socialist, that just makes me sad. And I guess that’s why the NHS is done if there isn’t a change of government.
As an extremely frustrated operations manager I can tell you that the NHS is very very badly run. I could cut waiting times in half in a year and in half again in another six months – if I was allowed to run things my way. Instead I’m forced to use group think monolithic systems imposed by execs with no common sense. I’ve run two extremely successful services that have been taken apart and ruined in the name of progress by career driven apparatchik cliques. People who think the Tories are to blame for everything – think again. The NHS is being run by incompetent fucktards
Does everyone realise that this has already happened to the NHS dental system?
24 comments
> Some 44% of hospital consultants in England plan to leave, or take a break from working in the NHS, over the next year, according to the poll. Among consultant surgeons, the figure rises to 50%.
> The survey of almost 8,000 consultants suggested pay and pension tax arrangements among the reasons for wanting to leave.
THIS . IS . BY . DESIGN
The aim is to degrade the NHS to the point where they can claim “the only solution” is a brutal US style system.
‘[Starve the Beast](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast)’ is the name of this strategy.
Changing doctors pension rules to effectively force them out is just plausible deniability.
These policies will continue as long as the British Public hate immigration more than they love the NHS and as long as they hate “scroungers” more than they support a social security system that allows people in need to live in dignity.
i.e. so long as the British public keeps on electing Conservative governments.
Labour brought the number on waiting lists down from over 4million to just over 2million. The conservatives have steadily taken it back up to over 4million (and were well on the way before covid).
The two parties are not the same.
The plan is working! Really good work guys! The idiot electorate didn’t see it coming, they really will fall for anything!
*edit – shit, wrong sub sorry.*
It’s been on the brink of collapse for the last 10 fucking years…..if not longer
I hope the people responsible for this go over the coals. The NHS is a holy national treasure and lifeblood of our country. Burn in hell fascists. Social murderers.
It’s probably the only way the Tories can bring down the NHS; get the doctors to do the dirty work for them.
It’s not even primarily about money. It’s about the utter misery of management fuckwits telling you what to do all the livelong day.
I left on ill-health grounds at the age of 51. The NHS should have got 14 more years of work out of me. All they had to do was leave me alone and let me get on with it.
This the design, slow creep of private medical care, pile on more pressure, more private medical care, clap for them but don’t page them a decent wage.
Keep them spinning the plates, it goes on and on
When it finally collapses, suddenly the pressure is eased, the bureaucracy is less. But at a cost, your life becomes a figure on a spreadsheet and what it costs to keep you going.
Suddenly you are on the bronze plan, in order to have that x-ray that’s the gold plan, mental health services, that’s our platinum plan and so it continues
It’s disgusting something that was created for all, has morphed into a bloated creature that threatens to destroy itself
I get the “underfund til it fails, then privatise” plan but what I don’t get is who tf will be working in the private insurance funded hospitals that replace them.
I’m not sure they’ve thought this through!
Tories: destroy NHS
Electorate: what if we vote Tory again?
Tory voters will be ecstatic when they see how many immigrants we will have to let in to have a chance of making up for this, that goes across all levels of the NHS. We have hired a lot of new staff this year and two have been British, all the rest have been hired from abroad (none from Europe as a whole too). The problem is that this cannot last forever and eventually we will unable to be a parasite to other countries, that is when the NHS will truly crumble. Brits already do not want to work in the NHS, soon we will see immigrants displaying the same attitude.
NHS on the collapse, Pension Funds on the collapse…what next?
Maybe we could go out in the street and clap for them again?
Finally the British public will get what they’ve been voting for the past 12 years. All those Tory voters and none voters must be ecstatic, the end of the socialised health care and education on the brink.
I like any none sociopath am horrified but at least democracy is working.
Excellent opportunity for privatization! What are the odds?
If tories try and use this as an excuse to get an American style system with healthcare, the revolt will be insane. The NHS is a core part of British society and if they try and get rid of it, protests will go on forever and cripple society, they’d have no choice but to resign and call an election. They’re taking the piss and it’s not even been a month with Liz as PM
£350 Million a week for the NHS!!! Attract the best international doctors and rebuild the NHS.
Tories will now say privatising departments is the only way forward due to Covid.
Then sell bits off to their mates…
“Look, we injected some much needed capital into the NHS.
Sadly healthcare is shifting from being a right to a privilege globally. Medical professionals are no longer vocational workers (not to say that they shouldn’t be better compensated at entry levels).
I have heard that the German healthcare system is perhaps one for us to consider implementing due to the supposed balance between healthcare and compensation for medical staff.
This is because many senior NHS staff and consultants are facing yearly tax bills of tens of thousands on imaginary growth of a pension pot that doesn’t exist in reality (its a theoretical one). If you do extra work, you pay more in tax than you earn for that work. No brainier that you therefore work less or retire.
Yes they get a good public sector pension (or did), but if someone said you can retire now with a smaller pension, or work harder under worse conditions, pay more tax on pension you may never see, then get an even lower pension, what would you choose?
Consultants also put in more in pension contributions than retired consultants take out, as many dont live long after retirement. The pot, if it existed, would be in surplus due to this.
I’n going to whistle blow here but I guess it won’t mean shit and will get down voted to fuck but so be it. People need to know the truth as lives are literally at risk.
Certain trusts are now cutting the salaries of seasoned experienced safe qualified consultant to levels where someone half their experience can earn more or the SAME of at another hospital on locum rate i.e consultants on the steady salary earning the SAME as locum juniours.
It’s a race to the bottom. Trusts are reducing the salaries and overall costs to the point where consultants who have 10-20+ years experience are going abroad to Dubai etc or into the private sector and away from the NHS leaving a black hole. The problem is how the trusts are filling this black hole. They are actively poaching “consultants” from places like Nigeria, India, Myanmar etc etc the corner of the world who NEED these specialists as the lowered salaries to British consultants are not feasible, are a diamond to those they are calling in.
The problem is there is NO standardisation and most of these consultant do not meet the requirement to even become registrars in the UK and do NOT even have the basic qualifications and have the uk version of MRCP. Some of them are even lacking basic language proficiency. In some trusts even registrars in training are being asked to step up to consultants. They race to the bottom is greatly cutting the safety and clinical care given to patients and people aren’t even aware the consultant treated them for life and death situation has not even sat or passed UK grade examinations.
It’s a fucking scam. They are forcing a sub standard second class public service that will implode. And guess where your 30 year experience consultant is waiting for you when that happens? At Bupa, spire, nuffield etc etc *insert private hospital*.
This is in England as the tories strip the NHS to the bone.
I work in an NHS virology lab and we are so *goddamn* short-staffed.
Staff leave and aren’t replaced for months, or are replaced in lower numbers than we need, while the band 7s and 8s that decide upon staff numbers don’t feel the pinch.
It’s not just senior staff, Band 3 staff are fucked too.
When they were growing up, did anyone else think being a doctor was a good job, for the smartest of people?
Throwaway account because I want to chat shit on my real account:
Nhs consultant. 21k tax bill for pension this year
In defence of the government, the rules were created to prevent higher earners from over contributing to pension schemes to avoid paying income tax. Which to me seems fair. However nhs consultants have no control over how much they pay into pensions because of how the scheme works, and no control over how the tax is calculated because it is based on ‘pension growth’.
The upshot is I, like many many of my colleagues have earned 21% less gross and 31% less net this year. And this is a tax bill I have to pay. On top of a real time paycut relative to inflation like everyone else here – note: my spending power was identical 10 years ago to as it is today despite completing training and becoming a consultant over that period of time.
I don’t mind paying tax. We should all pay tax to benefit society, the problem is that as a consultant in the nhs you have no idea what your tax liability is going to be. It is actually better financially for most consultants to work less now and spend more time with their family. If I am asked to do extra work, such as an extra theatre list to help with waiting lists, it is either in exchange for time off (which just keeps waiting lists the same as they are, so kind of pointless) or just not to say no as I can’t afford to do it and would rather spend the time with my kids – the way taxation works means that I’m either doing it for free or potentially even paying for doing it myself depending on how the pension growth will be calculated next year.
This Tory government is the anti growth government. Don’t let them tell you otherwise. Making the majority of the electorate poorer while benefitting the super rich does not grow your local area or the country. It only grows offshore accounts.
While I appreciate I seem like a high earner compared to most of you here and am complaining – we have way more in common than you think. The biggest trick the Tories pulled was making people think that having any sort of disposable income made you a Tory. You aren’t. But depressing, the electorate seems to have fallen for it.
I have always been vehemently against private practice, and don’t currently do any. However it’s reached the stage, with the current financial outlook, and current government in charge, if a private company were to offer me a significant salary uplift, I’d now say yes. And as an environmental soft socialist, that just makes me sad. And I guess that’s why the NHS is done if there isn’t a change of government.
As an extremely frustrated operations manager I can tell you that the NHS is very very badly run. I could cut waiting times in half in a year and in half again in another six months – if I was allowed to run things my way. Instead I’m forced to use group think monolithic systems imposed by execs with no common sense. I’ve run two extremely successful services that have been taken apart and ruined in the name of progress by career driven apparatchik cliques. People who think the Tories are to blame for everything – think again. The NHS is being run by incompetent fucktards
Does everyone realise that this has already happened to the NHS dental system?