**Op vraag van een privébedrijf dat hun trajectcontroles uitbaat en 24 euro per boete opstrijkt, bannen Vlaamse gemeenten op die wegen andere snelheidsremmende maatregelen.**
This is a typical example of dark design patterns. Abolish preventive measures to ensure many people drive too fast. Couple this with the removal of the leeway / tolerance ( not the technical one) and some private companies are seeing a lot of cash flowing in while you actually get less safer streets.
**edited as technical tolerance will stay**
**In de praktijk vraagt het bedrijf dat alle andere verkeersremmende maatregelen – zoals drempels, voorrang voor fietsers of chicanes – verdwijnen en gedurende minimaal zes jaar niet ingevoerd worden, blijkt uit gesprekken met de vijf gemeenten.**
6 years of avoiding taking preventive measures will result in more accidents and deaths. This is not new. Preventative measures and nudging have tremendous value in the overall effective safety and the perception of safety.
**Het bedrijf heeft een volmacht op de rekening van de gemeente waarop de boetes binnenkomen en haalt daar de vergoedingen van 24 euro af. Mogelijke tekorten moeten door de gemeente worden bijgepast.
Het contract geldt voor minstens zes jaar en kan alleen verbroken worden mits er een schadevergoeding wordt betaald. Het contract en alle gelinkte informatie moeten geheim gehouden worden.**
This is insane. No private company should have direct access to the bank accounts of a city. That these payment conditions even passed procurement poses some very serious questions. You work with a PO and with payment schedules and reviews. And as a citizen an NDA that ensures that no transparency is possible on how government spending in very relevant citizen matter (road safety and mobility) is done should be illegal.
You have beaten me to it. Good that you care.
This has nothing to do with road safety anymore. This is purely financial motivated. Discusting.
In the future: paying highway tax and fully traject controlled if using other roads.
Private companies should never be involved with fines, prisons and anything else in justice. That’s asking for problems.
>De gemeenten werpen tegen dat de wet trajectcontroles niet toestaat op trajecten met verschillende snelheidsmaxima
België het land waar alles kan als de politiek maar kan meegraaien.
I’m not saying that this is corruption by definition, but the people responsible should take into account that it certainly feels like it. Now I’m left wondering if this is the consequence of communal finances having been systematically neglected/abused by the regional level the last few decades, or if this is just a few *dorpsstraat* politicians not thinking things through.
Call the cities and mayors that allow this, out on it. Drop the local businesses and institutions till they take action.
Fuck Bonheiden, fuck Lode Van Looy.
Fuck Imelda hospital. Fuck the little boutiques as well.
The way that the company enforces these things is morally wrong imo but I’m a fan of the overall idea. (Not necessarily the current implementation, let that be clear)
My take on this:
The preventive measures only work very locally.
Speed bumps have been studied and shown to contribute to high levels of pollution.
Chicanes only work when there’s a lot of traffic, otherwise they’re even fun to speed through. When there is a lot of traffic, they are annoying and slowing down too much.
Traject controle, over a longer distance, is the only real mitigation.
Curious what you think about this..
Dan kunnen die met een buitenlandse nummerplaat eindelijk eens deftig gas geven
So dystopian, we’re going to turn in to America. For profit justice? Smh
This looks cynical, but I own a car that adapts its speed automatically to the speed limit, and I really hate extra speed bumps which force me to take over, slow down, go over the bump, and speed up again before enabling cruise control again.
So yeah, I’d love these speed bumps to go away and y’all start driving the speed limit.
A road I take to visit my parents had this done. I honestly don’t mind it. This means I no longer have to stop for drivers coming from the other side. The only thing I don’t like is that the control covers 2 zones with a speed limit of 50 connected by a piece of 70 and they changed it so it now is 1 continues piece with a speed limit of 50.
Can someone post the text? can’t read it.
Gemeenten shouldn’t even have the authority to decide how roads are built. This country desperately needs strict guidelines, standardisation, and oversight in road construction and zoning.
Dat punt over fiets voorrang maakt mij kotsen.
Als maar een kind wordt overreden voor een paar shekels te verdienen is hatelijke.
Hoe kunnen politiekers zich in een spiegel kijken, zal altijd een wonder voor me zijn.
Dit is echt verschrikkelijk. Geld > mensenlevens
Next step?
Police gets 10% commission on fines cause governement can’t afford higher salaries for them. 👍
Edit: checking the site of the company, they only talk about traffic safety and some pictures of children bycicling 😂
There is something I don’t get too…how come that a private company can use your personal data in the scope of GDPR, against your will?
And this, this is why you don’t let private companies handle essential services.
I’m in favor of removing ~~all~~ most other measures to slow down traffic once the cameras are in place (not saying I think they need to put these everywhere). These measures have a lot of adverse effects:
* speed bumps: extra wear to suspension, brakes, tires. Extra fuel consumption and brake wear negatively impact air quality locally. Extra noise.
* choke points: same, except for the wear to the suspension.
When you don’t speed, these are all annoyances that don’t even help all that much against speeders, except for the speed bumps, but they are also annoying as hell for emergency services and slow them down as well.
Even Dacia fits their cars with speed limiters nowadays, so there’s basically noone to blame but the driver, unless the signage isn’t clear. Usually that’s not the case however, judging by the amount of reckless drivers I tend to see on a weekly basis.
edit: I feel like giving cyclists the right of way and changing infrastructure to make the roads safer is important, but the physical obstructions don’t help all that much and are annoying.
The worst part are the bad terms in the contract:
>Onderhoud dat de verkeersstroom (deels) belemmert, kan niet langer duren dan 5 opeenvolgende dagen of 10 dagen per jaar. Voor andere werken is de limiet 14 dagen. Anders wordt het contract met de verloren periode verlengd.
>Wanneer een aanpassing van de weginfrastructuur zonder voorafgaand overleg ertoe leidt dat de verkeersstroom daalt met meer dan de helft, is een compensatie verschuldigd.
>Het bedrijf schiet pas tekort als het systeem langer dan 60 dagen niet functioneert door een ‘opzettelijke of zware fout’.
>Het contract geldt voor minstens zes jaar en kan alleen verbroken worden mits er een schadevergoeding wordt betaald. Het contract en alle gelinkte informatie moeten geheim gehouden worden.
Totally the opposite of what you’d normally put in a public procurement.
Idk why in flanders you still have to do 70 kph on a road that is as straight as a candle where you could easily do 90 kph. And also average speed checked.
120 kph on an empty highway at 4 in the morning or 11 in the evening is ridiculous.
Same with parkingcompanies. City only places a plate at the border that you are driving in a blue parkingzone. No plates in the streets, so if u missed that one plate -> free money that can be collected
Surely it would be sad if something were to happen to that company’s cameras and people would take measures into their own hands to ensure road safety would become a thing of the people.
Vive la belgique. That’s all I have te zeggen on this matter.
Speed bumps I can live with, but those annoying obstacles that allow only one direction of traffic to pass at the same time, those need to go. With the least bit of traffic these things force you to come to a complete stop, which worsens congestion, is a waste of time, fuel/energy, and increases pollution (Stop-start driving is among the most fuel intensive forms of car travel). As soon as you pass these things you can also accelerate to any desired speed again so they’re not even effective at what they’re supposed to achieve. Trajectory controls are the future like it or not. It’s way more effective than a momentary speed measuremt or a localised speed ‘obstacle’.
32 comments
**Op vraag van een privébedrijf dat hun trajectcontroles uitbaat en 24 euro per boete opstrijkt, bannen Vlaamse gemeenten op die wegen andere snelheidsremmende maatregelen.**
This is a typical example of dark design patterns. Abolish preventive measures to ensure many people drive too fast. Couple this with the removal of the leeway / tolerance ( not the technical one) and some private companies are seeing a lot of cash flowing in while you actually get less safer streets.
**edited as technical tolerance will stay**
**In de praktijk vraagt het bedrijf dat alle andere verkeersremmende maatregelen – zoals drempels, voorrang voor fietsers of chicanes – verdwijnen en gedurende minimaal zes jaar niet ingevoerd worden, blijkt uit gesprekken met de vijf gemeenten.**
6 years of avoiding taking preventive measures will result in more accidents and deaths. This is not new. Preventative measures and nudging have tremendous value in the overall effective safety and the perception of safety.
**Het bedrijf heeft een volmacht op de rekening van de gemeente waarop de boetes binnenkomen en haalt daar de vergoedingen van 24 euro af. Mogelijke tekorten moeten door de gemeente worden bijgepast.
Het contract geldt voor minstens zes jaar en kan alleen verbroken worden mits er een schadevergoeding wordt betaald. Het contract en alle gelinkte informatie moeten geheim gehouden worden.**
This is insane. No private company should have direct access to the bank accounts of a city. That these payment conditions even passed procurement poses some very serious questions. You work with a PO and with payment schedules and reviews. And as a citizen an NDA that ensures that no transparency is possible on how government spending in very relevant citizen matter (road safety and mobility) is done should be illegal.
You have beaten me to it. Good that you care.
This has nothing to do with road safety anymore. This is purely financial motivated. Discusting.
In the future: paying highway tax and fully traject controlled if using other roads.
Private companies should never be involved with fines, prisons and anything else in justice. That’s asking for problems.
>De gemeenten werpen tegen dat de wet trajectcontroles niet toestaat op trajecten met verschillende snelheidsmaxima
Look at this situation:
Start: [https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1847568,3.1893842,3a,75y,254.02h,87.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWbsWemubXP6wRto4tm63lw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1847568,3.1893842,3a,75y,254.02h,87.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWbsWemubXP6wRto4tm63lw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Mid trajectory: [https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1814124,3.1862531,3a,75y,246.25h,82.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX2nqe7YeqYTnxtZaiuxC9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1814124,3.1862531,3a,75y,246.25h,82.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX2nqe7YeqYTnxtZaiuxC9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
So they can’t use this trajectory?
België het land waar alles kan als de politiek maar kan meegraaien.
I’m not saying that this is corruption by definition, but the people responsible should take into account that it certainly feels like it. Now I’m left wondering if this is the consequence of communal finances having been systematically neglected/abused by the regional level the last few decades, or if this is just a few *dorpsstraat* politicians not thinking things through.
Call the cities and mayors that allow this, out on it. Drop the local businesses and institutions till they take action.
Fuck Bonheiden, fuck Lode Van Looy.
Fuck Imelda hospital. Fuck the little boutiques as well.
The way that the company enforces these things is morally wrong imo but I’m a fan of the overall idea. (Not necessarily the current implementation, let that be clear)
My take on this:
The preventive measures only work very locally.
Speed bumps have been studied and shown to contribute to high levels of pollution.
Chicanes only work when there’s a lot of traffic, otherwise they’re even fun to speed through. When there is a lot of traffic, they are annoying and slowing down too much.
Traject controle, over a longer distance, is the only real mitigation.
Curious what you think about this..
Dan kunnen die met een buitenlandse nummerplaat eindelijk eens deftig gas geven
So dystopian, we’re going to turn in to America. For profit justice? Smh
This looks cynical, but I own a car that adapts its speed automatically to the speed limit, and I really hate extra speed bumps which force me to take over, slow down, go over the bump, and speed up again before enabling cruise control again.
So yeah, I’d love these speed bumps to go away and y’all start driving the speed limit.
A road I take to visit my parents had this done. I honestly don’t mind it. This means I no longer have to stop for drivers coming from the other side. The only thing I don’t like is that the control covers 2 zones with a speed limit of 50 connected by a piece of 70 and they changed it so it now is 1 continues piece with a speed limit of 50.
Can someone post the text? can’t read it.
Gemeenten shouldn’t even have the authority to decide how roads are built. This country desperately needs strict guidelines, standardisation, and oversight in road construction and zoning.
Dat punt over fiets voorrang maakt mij kotsen.
Als maar een kind wordt overreden voor een paar shekels te verdienen is hatelijke.
Hoe kunnen politiekers zich in een spiegel kijken, zal altijd een wonder voor me zijn.
Dit is echt verschrikkelijk. Geld > mensenlevens
Next step?
Police gets 10% commission on fines cause governement can’t afford higher salaries for them. 👍
Edit: checking the site of the company, they only talk about traffic safety and some pictures of children bycicling 😂
There is something I don’t get too…how come that a private company can use your personal data in the scope of GDPR, against your will?
And this, this is why you don’t let private companies handle essential services.
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/12/09/legt-trajectcontrole-door-een-privebedrijf-de-nadruk-op-verkeers/
> De stad Bilzen gaat bijvoorbeeld met zo’n bedrijf in zee, terwijl Jo Brouns (CD&V), burgemeester van Kinrooi en Vlaams parlementslid, vindt dat de gemeentelijke autonomie niet uit handen mag gegeven worden.
For those that can’t read the article, i found another one here: [https://www.proximus.be/pickx/nl/2186149/kritiek-op-verdienmodel-achter-lokale-trajectcontroles](https://www.proximus.be/pickx/nl/2186149/kritiek-op-verdienmodel-achter-lokale-trajectcontroles)
I’m in favor of removing ~~all~~ most other measures to slow down traffic once the cameras are in place (not saying I think they need to put these everywhere). These measures have a lot of adverse effects:
* speed bumps: extra wear to suspension, brakes, tires. Extra fuel consumption and brake wear negatively impact air quality locally. Extra noise.
* choke points: same, except for the wear to the suspension.
When you don’t speed, these are all annoyances that don’t even help all that much against speeders, except for the speed bumps, but they are also annoying as hell for emergency services and slow them down as well.
Even Dacia fits their cars with speed limiters nowadays, so there’s basically noone to blame but the driver, unless the signage isn’t clear. Usually that’s not the case however, judging by the amount of reckless drivers I tend to see on a weekly basis.
edit: I feel like giving cyclists the right of way and changing infrastructure to make the roads safer is important, but the physical obstructions don’t help all that much and are annoying.
The worst part are the bad terms in the contract:
>Onderhoud dat de verkeersstroom (deels) belemmert, kan niet langer duren dan 5 opeenvolgende dagen of 10 dagen per jaar. Voor andere werken is de limiet 14 dagen. Anders wordt het contract met de verloren periode verlengd.
>Wanneer een aanpassing van de weginfrastructuur zonder voorafgaand overleg ertoe leidt dat de verkeersstroom daalt met meer dan de helft, is een compensatie verschuldigd.
>Het bedrijf schiet pas tekort als het systeem langer dan 60 dagen niet functioneert door een ‘opzettelijke of zware fout’.
>Het contract geldt voor minstens zes jaar en kan alleen verbroken worden mits er een schadevergoeding wordt betaald. Het contract en alle gelinkte informatie moeten geheim gehouden worden.
Totally the opposite of what you’d normally put in a public procurement.
Idk why in flanders you still have to do 70 kph on a road that is as straight as a candle where you could easily do 90 kph. And also average speed checked.
120 kph on an empty highway at 4 in the morning or 11 in the evening is ridiculous.
Safety is being eroded for profits.
* Vooruit – hallo@vooruit.org
* N-VA – https://www.n-va.be/stel-je-vraag / info@n-va.be
* CD&V – https://www.cdenv.be/contact/ info@cdenv.be
* Groen – https://www.groen.be/contact / info@groen.be
* PVDA – https://www.pvda.be/contact / pvda@pvda.be
* Open-VLD – https://www2.openvld.be/stel-je-vraag/ / info@openvld.be
* Vlaams-Belang – https://www.vlaamsbelang.org/contact/ / info@vlaamsbelang.org
[Send a mail to them all in BCC](mailto://?bcc=hallo@vooruit.org;info@n-va.be;info@cdenv.be;pvda@pvda.be;info@openvld.be;info@vlaamsbelang.org;info@groen.be)
This is downright criminal…
This feels evil corp :p
Can you assholes stop voting N-VB already please.
Same with parkingcompanies. City only places a plate at the border that you are driving in a blue parkingzone. No plates in the streets, so if u missed that one plate -> free money that can be collected
Surely it would be sad if something were to happen to that company’s cameras and people would take measures into their own hands to ensure road safety would become a thing of the people.
Vive la belgique. That’s all I have te zeggen on this matter.
Speed bumps I can live with, but those annoying obstacles that allow only one direction of traffic to pass at the same time, those need to go. With the least bit of traffic these things force you to come to a complete stop, which worsens congestion, is a waste of time, fuel/energy, and increases pollution (Stop-start driving is among the most fuel intensive forms of car travel). As soon as you pass these things you can also accelerate to any desired speed again so they’re not even effective at what they’re supposed to achieve. Trajectory controls are the future like it or not. It’s way more effective than a momentary speed measuremt or a localised speed ‘obstacle’.