I think he was spot on when he said these protesters are arrogant enough to believe that only they have the answers.
The problem needs to be tackled internationally. We need affordable electric cars and renewable energy to reduce the demand for oil to nothing. Say they achieve their goal – I don’t see how us no longer drilling for oil is better than buying oil the Saudi Arabian’s have drilled and transported to us?
Better to remove the need for oil in the first place.
Hopefully this will speed some things up a little bit:
Shortly someone is going to post about how this is pointless as we don’t have the alternative sources yet or we need oil to keep you going while we transition. No one is arguing against that. What you cannot deny, we need to speed this transition up NOW. Not tomorrow, not next election cycle.. NOW. So, stop with your distractions or telling us this isn’t working, it is working. We are talking about it, people are listening, things are changing. Now is NOT the time to stop the pressure, it’s the time to increase it. We can and MUST do this quicker and better.
A few quick-fire arguments that seem to be popular:
China or [other country] are polluting more than us!
Yes, other countries are polluting, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for quicker and better adoption of green energy. Greener energy is cheaper, it will put us in a better economic position to compete. We can be world leaders in this! We can be the first and the best! Don’t let our leaders get distracted! There is evidence to suggest that fully automated and green energy will be so cheap it will become too cheap to meter! Think about that while your fuel bills go up another £1000 and the government throws a few more billion at the oil and gas sector. You could have a utopia, but a rich guy likes his boat collection better so maybe do buy thermal undershirt you have been looking at on Amazon.
This grid can’t handle everyone owning an electric car:
Not right now, but it will be able to very soon. That’s been worked on. I know because I’m part of the team doing it. Don’t worry about the grid, worry about the number of people dying from pollution and how that might be effecting YOUR loved ones.
These protests detract/bad light/vandalism bla bla:
I know it’s a shame isn’t it. Maybe we should try another petition? Or write to our MP’s? That’s worked well before hasn’t it..? /s
Given the apocalyptic scenario predicted by our scientist, do you not think a little bit of paint splashing or gluing is required? Or would you rather take your chances in the climate wars?
They stop emergency services:
No, they have a blue light policy. It’s unfortunate if anyone got delayed, truly is. While your here maybe you could look up the number of premature deaths caused by pollution? That could be a fun exercise.
We still need oil for plastics and such:
Agreed. Let’s stop using it for everything else we have a suitable alternative for though yer?
But we can’t do this on renewables alone, the wind doesn’t always blow, or the sun doesn’t always shine:
Now we can’t, but we can if we push harder! We build and engineer our way forward. There are ways of storing the energy or flattening out the demand. Don’t let people or our leaders distract you, we CAN have it better in this country!
We just had one of the hottest summers ever here in the UK. Honestly if you can’t connect the dots at this point, it’s probably best you don’t pass along your genes. I’m serious, consider it. Really take the time to consider, should I be creating another life?
There are leaders, trend setters and people who are to be held up as examples in this life. And then there are followers and detractors. I know which group I want myself and my fellow countrymen in. Which group do you want to be in?
Nah I agree with him. Big oil execs and Tory MPs don’t care if the M25 is blocked. People defending these actions always trot out the same justification: “well they’ve got your attention haven’t they”, but never explain how getting our attention translates to the aforementioned oil execs and MPs changing their minds. It just pisses off a bunch of working people, and the conversation it creates is “what a bunch of cunts”. This doesn’t help anyone stop oil. The “conversation” doesn’t lead anywhere productive.
When we do stop oil, and we will, it won’t have anything to do with how many people glued themselves to roads. It will be everything to do with policies held by the Labour party currently, and the steady path away from non-renewables which we’ve already been on for the past 20 years. None of which was inspired by these protestors.
[deleted]
Can’t blame him. Supporting them would lose him a lot of voters.
Centre left policy will win the election.
Supporting people gluing themselves to the floor won’t.
It’s that simple
Pissing people off is never going to work. Judging by the ones I speak to or see on social media, the people caught up in the protests are more likely to want to buy a Range Rover to annoy the people who inconvenienced them.
Their protests do literally nothing.
You think Bin Salman cares about his, that it affects them?
I’ll ask the question again, because I’ve never got a coherent answer: what is a rational response to the death of the planet, the death of your future, and the death of hope?
We’ve tried regular protests. We’ve tried sorting our recycling. We’ve tried voting. We’ve tried debating. Every sane option has been done to death, and the problem gets worse every year.
So what, and when, is Starmer going to do so that they no longer feel the need to protest?
They were small scale protests, highly publicised in order to provide a smoke screen for the Public Order Bill that was passed by the Commons last week.
It probably wasn’t necessary given the continuing Tory party meltdown, but that’s the real function at play.
Just stop shitting on your own doorstep you say? Tell us something we don’t know.
Its interesting isnt it. When idiots wanted to “protest” via brexit we all had to think about how we hurt those poor babies – because obviously they are only doing this because of those damn liberal elites.
If you want to protest the coming climate holocaust, you are arrogant and wrong.
I remember it clearly! Calling brexiteers idiots was mean and wrong and it was forcing them to act out! Same with the antivaxers, cant blame them its not their fault theyre fucking idiots! We need to let them scream at kids and scare them into not taking the jab because free speech.
But you want to try and stop the literal end of the modern world youre an annoying asshole.
If you hate these protests more than the thing they are protesting I have bad news for you – you would have hated the suffragettes, Martin Luther King, any of the freedom fighters we now idolise. Because it was identical with them. Literally the same exact arguments against them.
Labour is slowly detoxifying itself. About time it represented working people rather than student activists and foreigners.
We’re fucked. We can see the oil companies are fucking up the planet, we all say something should be done, and none of us do anything – and the only people who do, we insult them for not doing it right.
I accepted a long time ago that we’re not actually going to do anything meaningful. We’ll do some green bits and pieces along the way, sure, but ultimately we’re just going to ride this out until the great resource wars start – probably clean drinking water will be one of the main commodities, invest now.
The British public won’t be told how to think by the sorts of people involved in these organisations at present as they have an instinctive feeling of superiority over most of them (beardy, composting types, middle class academics, international postgraduates, lesbian, gay, trans, and non-binary Gen Z/millennials from good universities). So if this same message was delivered in the same way by someone more ‘salt of the Earth’, it would actually be accepted by way more people.
Quite the popcorn thread, seems quite a number of people have opted to jump straight to hyperbole to support their argument. Reddit really isn’t the place to get any nuance in an argument, especially not on these prickly subjects.
I dont think anyone is out there saying ‘fuck the environment’, least of all Labour. As a few other people have pointed out, the Labour manifesto has a pretty decent message on climate change and until they’re actually in a position to legislate there isn’t really much else they can do. Starmer supporting protests is terrible optics and aside from making some people on reddit feel a bit more warm towards Starmer it just alienates the working class vote who, broadly, see climate activists as nut jobs. You see it every time they sit in the road, it isn’t a rich banker pulling them off a road, it’s tradesmen onto their next job.
By and large, their methods (not their cause) are unpopular and tying yourself to unpopular imagery means becoming unpopular yourself. Labour can’t legislate on anything if they aren’t in power after all.
I also think making comparisons to civil right protests (America equal rights, suffragettes, irish republic movements, etc) is a little disingenuous as those directly affected people and the way they lived (and still live). I think the vast majority of people know that something needs to be done about climate change but the environment unfortunately can’t speak for itself nor protest for its own right. We have to advocate for it and you are going to get some wild varying ideas on how to do more for the environment from being a true follower of Ted K to more slower but more palatable change the normal person wants.
Civil rights movements work when the people are behind them. When they’re pissing off everyone they aren’t going. to do anything. I haven’t figured out why they haven’t just protested outside certain peoples homes (people who work in oil or MP’s who have allowed things).
That would get the public more interested in their cause.
Their cause is right…. their methods are not.
​
and that’s what’s destroyed the movement… too many silly protests (smashing food on a waxwork figure of someone who’s done a lot of campaigning about climate change) and too many that causes those that need to support them to turn against them.
​
Almost feels like it’s a deliberate thing, that they’re actually out to damage the public towards what’s coming…
If Just Stop Oil wants to make a difference, they should form a national political party and run for elections.
Let the people decide if they support them through Democratic elections.
19 comments
I think he was spot on when he said these protesters are arrogant enough to believe that only they have the answers.
The problem needs to be tackled internationally. We need affordable electric cars and renewable energy to reduce the demand for oil to nothing. Say they achieve their goal – I don’t see how us no longer drilling for oil is better than buying oil the Saudi Arabian’s have drilled and transported to us?
Better to remove the need for oil in the first place.
Hopefully this will speed some things up a little bit:
Shortly someone is going to post about how this is pointless as we don’t have the alternative sources yet or we need oil to keep you going while we transition. No one is arguing against that. What you cannot deny, we need to speed this transition up NOW. Not tomorrow, not next election cycle.. NOW. So, stop with your distractions or telling us this isn’t working, it is working. We are talking about it, people are listening, things are changing. Now is NOT the time to stop the pressure, it’s the time to increase it. We can and MUST do this quicker and better.
A few quick-fire arguments that seem to be popular:
China or [other country] are polluting more than us!
Yes, other countries are polluting, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for quicker and better adoption of green energy. Greener energy is cheaper, it will put us in a better economic position to compete. We can be world leaders in this! We can be the first and the best! Don’t let our leaders get distracted! There is evidence to suggest that fully automated and green energy will be so cheap it will become too cheap to meter! Think about that while your fuel bills go up another £1000 and the government throws a few more billion at the oil and gas sector. You could have a utopia, but a rich guy likes his boat collection better so maybe do buy thermal undershirt you have been looking at on Amazon.
This grid can’t handle everyone owning an electric car:
Not right now, but it will be able to very soon. That’s been worked on. I know because I’m part of the team doing it. Don’t worry about the grid, worry about the number of people dying from pollution and how that might be effecting YOUR loved ones.
These protests detract/bad light/vandalism bla bla:
I know it’s a shame isn’t it. Maybe we should try another petition? Or write to our MP’s? That’s worked well before hasn’t it..? /s
Given the apocalyptic scenario predicted by our scientist, do you not think a little bit of paint splashing or gluing is required? Or would you rather take your chances in the climate wars?
They stop emergency services:
No, they have a blue light policy. It’s unfortunate if anyone got delayed, truly is. While your here maybe you could look up the number of premature deaths caused by pollution? That could be a fun exercise.
We still need oil for plastics and such:
Agreed. Let’s stop using it for everything else we have a suitable alternative for though yer?
But we can’t do this on renewables alone, the wind doesn’t always blow, or the sun doesn’t always shine:
Now we can’t, but we can if we push harder! We build and engineer our way forward. There are ways of storing the energy or flattening out the demand. Don’t let people or our leaders distract you, we CAN have it better in this country!
We just had one of the hottest summers ever here in the UK. Honestly if you can’t connect the dots at this point, it’s probably best you don’t pass along your genes. I’m serious, consider it. Really take the time to consider, should I be creating another life?
There are leaders, trend setters and people who are to be held up as examples in this life. And then there are followers and detractors. I know which group I want myself and my fellow countrymen in. Which group do you want to be in?
Nah I agree with him. Big oil execs and Tory MPs don’t care if the M25 is blocked. People defending these actions always trot out the same justification: “well they’ve got your attention haven’t they”, but never explain how getting our attention translates to the aforementioned oil execs and MPs changing their minds. It just pisses off a bunch of working people, and the conversation it creates is “what a bunch of cunts”. This doesn’t help anyone stop oil. The “conversation” doesn’t lead anywhere productive.
When we do stop oil, and we will, it won’t have anything to do with how many people glued themselves to roads. It will be everything to do with policies held by the Labour party currently, and the steady path away from non-renewables which we’ve already been on for the past 20 years. None of which was inspired by these protestors.
[deleted]
Can’t blame him. Supporting them would lose him a lot of voters.
Centre left policy will win the election.
Supporting people gluing themselves to the floor won’t.
It’s that simple
Pissing people off is never going to work. Judging by the ones I speak to or see on social media, the people caught up in the protests are more likely to want to buy a Range Rover to annoy the people who inconvenienced them.
Their protests do literally nothing.
You think Bin Salman cares about his, that it affects them?
I’ll ask the question again, because I’ve never got a coherent answer: what is a rational response to the death of the planet, the death of your future, and the death of hope?
We’ve tried regular protests. We’ve tried sorting our recycling. We’ve tried voting. We’ve tried debating. Every sane option has been done to death, and the problem gets worse every year.
So what, and when, is Starmer going to do so that they no longer feel the need to protest?
They were small scale protests, highly publicised in order to provide a smoke screen for the Public Order Bill that was passed by the Commons last week.
It probably wasn’t necessary given the continuing Tory party meltdown, but that’s the real function at play.
Just stop shitting on your own doorstep you say? Tell us something we don’t know.
Its interesting isnt it. When idiots wanted to “protest” via brexit we all had to think about how we hurt those poor babies – because obviously they are only doing this because of those damn liberal elites.
If you want to protest the coming climate holocaust, you are arrogant and wrong.
I remember it clearly! Calling brexiteers idiots was mean and wrong and it was forcing them to act out! Same with the antivaxers, cant blame them its not their fault theyre fucking idiots! We need to let them scream at kids and scare them into not taking the jab because free speech.
But you want to try and stop the literal end of the modern world youre an annoying asshole.
If you hate these protests more than the thing they are protesting I have bad news for you – you would have hated the suffragettes, Martin Luther King, any of the freedom fighters we now idolise. Because it was identical with them. Literally the same exact arguments against them.
Labour is slowly detoxifying itself. About time it represented working people rather than student activists and foreigners.
We’re fucked. We can see the oil companies are fucking up the planet, we all say something should be done, and none of us do anything – and the only people who do, we insult them for not doing it right.
I accepted a long time ago that we’re not actually going to do anything meaningful. We’ll do some green bits and pieces along the way, sure, but ultimately we’re just going to ride this out until the great resource wars start – probably clean drinking water will be one of the main commodities, invest now.
The British public won’t be told how to think by the sorts of people involved in these organisations at present as they have an instinctive feeling of superiority over most of them (beardy, composting types, middle class academics, international postgraduates, lesbian, gay, trans, and non-binary Gen Z/millennials from good universities). So if this same message was delivered in the same way by someone more ‘salt of the Earth’, it would actually be accepted by way more people.
Quite the popcorn thread, seems quite a number of people have opted to jump straight to hyperbole to support their argument. Reddit really isn’t the place to get any nuance in an argument, especially not on these prickly subjects.
I dont think anyone is out there saying ‘fuck the environment’, least of all Labour. As a few other people have pointed out, the Labour manifesto has a pretty decent message on climate change and until they’re actually in a position to legislate there isn’t really much else they can do. Starmer supporting protests is terrible optics and aside from making some people on reddit feel a bit more warm towards Starmer it just alienates the working class vote who, broadly, see climate activists as nut jobs. You see it every time they sit in the road, it isn’t a rich banker pulling them off a road, it’s tradesmen onto their next job.
By and large, their methods (not their cause) are unpopular and tying yourself to unpopular imagery means becoming unpopular yourself. Labour can’t legislate on anything if they aren’t in power after all.
I also think making comparisons to civil right protests (America equal rights, suffragettes, irish republic movements, etc) is a little disingenuous as those directly affected people and the way they lived (and still live). I think the vast majority of people know that something needs to be done about climate change but the environment unfortunately can’t speak for itself nor protest for its own right. We have to advocate for it and you are going to get some wild varying ideas on how to do more for the environment from being a true follower of Ted K to more slower but more palatable change the normal person wants.
Civil rights movements work when the people are behind them. When they’re pissing off everyone they aren’t going. to do anything. I haven’t figured out why they haven’t just protested outside certain peoples homes (people who work in oil or MP’s who have allowed things).
That would get the public more interested in their cause.
Their cause is right…. their methods are not.
​
and that’s what’s destroyed the movement… too many silly protests (smashing food on a waxwork figure of someone who’s done a lot of campaigning about climate change) and too many that causes those that need to support them to turn against them.
​
Almost feels like it’s a deliberate thing, that they’re actually out to damage the public towards what’s coming…
If Just Stop Oil wants to make a difference, they should form a national political party and run for elections.
Let the people decide if they support them through Democratic elections.