Burgon was just disgusting here. What an embarassment to the Labour movement. I can’t see any sane reason for any Labour person or even any leftist or progressive to defend China’s regime. You can’t even give the excuse that you’re supporting your ideological comrades, because the CCP isn’t socialist or progressive.
The segment doesn’t contain the prior discussion, but I don’t think Burgon’s initial comment about racism was bad at all and sounds (from his description of what was previously said) like it needed saying.
(well done LBC, you made me defend Burgon of all people, but then again, LBC and Burgon are in a battle for most incompetent)
But yeah, beyond that, same old Burgon – and all too common a response to this stuff. If you can’t condemn anything without doing a morality check on a bunch of allied countries first – well done, you constructed a position where you can’t meaningfully condemn anything as no country will ever have a perfect history, and it isn’t constructive to whatabout to the extent he is.
Most of the things he cited were bad events, but also past events that there’s been a lot of discussion and reflection on among the people in those countries in the intervening period. Short of inventing a time machine, we can’t change the past, though we have attempted to learn from it – and it doesn’t ring true as a sincere belief on the part of people who speak like Burgon that those things in the past were wrong if you hamstring yourself intellectually from condemning similar atrocities taking place *right now*. Someone that allegedly concerned over those past events should be incandescent about what’s going on right now – but people like Burgon never are.
We are all guilty of ignoring the genocide while happily purchasing cheap Chinese made products.
I said this in another thread but I don’t think Burgon is a tankie or China sympathiser. I just think he is rubbish at this and couldn’t follow the discussion so spouted a bunch of lines about China. I mean going on about America dropping the atom bomb in a discussion about the Urghur genocide is a sign of someone who isn’t engaged.
[removed]
[removed]
Title doesn’t match the video at all. For one thing, he clearly said that our government needs to hold other governments – explicitly including China – “to account for human rights abuses”. Is that not condemnation? Or is “human rights abuses” a compliment to whoever wrote this trash?
Repost of an old comment:
Yep, see the threads here. They call out his shitty translation of Chinese news.
>I am not trying to deny systematic persecution of the Uyghurs by the CCP, because it is happening: racism and discrimination, and in many instances systematic persecution, against religious and ethnic minorities is widespread and a common knowledge among us Chinese people, but you cannot make the leap into forced labor or even genocide territory without substantiated evidence. BBC is seriously undermining its own journalistic integrity here.
>
>First, Sudsworth is their long term China correspondent, and he has done great work here, but he doesn’t speak Chinese well, and not asking a Chinese speaker (not hard to find in the UK) to proofread is borderline unethical. Second, circular citations that always end up on Adrian Zenz as a source. Combine them together and BBC – one of world’s premier news agencies – is essentially validating a bogus activist’s word at face value. Millions of people will see it and take it as true because of BBC’s reputation, and since they don’t speak Chinese the vast majority of readers cannot fact check them, and this is a huge problem.
The most accurate number we’ve ever heard is from the Uyghur Tribunal which stated 5567 people were missing (bit shy of a million)
It’s no wonder people are sceptical when a supposed 6-7 year genocide has resulted in no leaks, no bodies, no refugee crisis etc. It’s just odd, no? Coupled with the fact there is proof the CIA have been messing around in Xinjiang for decades too…
[removed]
[removed]
The number of china shills in this thread is too damn high!
Seriously though, burgon and his ilk really need to be removed from labour ASAP. They are an embarassment
(nobody on this thread really knows anything for sure about what is happening in China)
Most MPs would… this is not just a Labour problem.
You also have to ask what is accomplished by a Labour MP causing a diplomatic spat
That some in Labours membership think this dolt is the best and brightest and a good alternative for leader is hilarious.
They dont like Starmer but the reason Starmer is in is because absolute morons like this occupy other positions in the party.
LoL the UK is literally committing genocide in Yemen with our Saudi allies, we’re not talking about detention like in China we’re talking about utter mass murder.
To me, this interview highlights one of the most frustrating issues within the political establishment of the western world; That is the inability to recognize issues which transcend party lines, particularly when an issue violates our societal values so fundamentally.
As Individuals, the majority of us are the same. Horrified by the reports coming from Xinjiang, frustrated by the apparent indifference of the global community on the issue. But look at these comments and ask yourself if as an electorate we are actually any better, seriously. In 30 seconds you can read: Comments on David Cameron, prime minister before the Uyghurs issue was widely known, Comments about why the MP isn’t actually a Chinese sympathizer. However, not a single comment on the actual issue, that being in a debate over the Lives of innocent people, in which neither MP could find common ground with the other. I don’t really know what’s more shameful: MP’s callousness or our inability to recognize it.
Seriously, how have so many people just blindly accepted that theres a genocide going on. Fucking scary what you people are willing to believe with no reason to other than a bunch of articles all written by the same person.
Is this what people mean when they try to explain the horseshoe theory?
So typical that during a discussion about mass genocide this man’s first point is about mean words, and the second is a deflection to the USA. Politicians sicken me.
Weird.
I got the exact opposite impression after watching the video.
The other fella was practically calling Chinese students in the UK agents of the Communist Party who were all pro-genocide.
The problem with China now is that if you criticise them in any way you can be put in prison. Say a politician was outspoken on a particular genocide or tiennamen square. Next time they are in China they can be arrested
Some sad pathetic Brits will care more about this exchange than about all the damage the Tory government have done for 10 years now.
They will ALWAYS try to distract you by blaming Labour for something utterly irrelevant.
23 comments
Burgon was just disgusting here. What an embarassment to the Labour movement. I can’t see any sane reason for any Labour person or even any leftist or progressive to defend China’s regime. You can’t even give the excuse that you’re supporting your ideological comrades, because the CCP isn’t socialist or progressive.
The segment doesn’t contain the prior discussion, but I don’t think Burgon’s initial comment about racism was bad at all and sounds (from his description of what was previously said) like it needed saying.
(well done LBC, you made me defend Burgon of all people, but then again, LBC and Burgon are in a battle for most incompetent)
But yeah, beyond that, same old Burgon – and all too common a response to this stuff. If you can’t condemn anything without doing a morality check on a bunch of allied countries first – well done, you constructed a position where you can’t meaningfully condemn anything as no country will ever have a perfect history, and it isn’t constructive to whatabout to the extent he is.
Most of the things he cited were bad events, but also past events that there’s been a lot of discussion and reflection on among the people in those countries in the intervening period. Short of inventing a time machine, we can’t change the past, though we have attempted to learn from it – and it doesn’t ring true as a sincere belief on the part of people who speak like Burgon that those things in the past were wrong if you hamstring yourself intellectually from condemning similar atrocities taking place *right now*. Someone that allegedly concerned over those past events should be incandescent about what’s going on right now – but people like Burgon never are.
We are all guilty of ignoring the genocide while happily purchasing cheap Chinese made products.
I said this in another thread but I don’t think Burgon is a tankie or China sympathiser. I just think he is rubbish at this and couldn’t follow the discussion so spouted a bunch of lines about China. I mean going on about America dropping the atom bomb in a discussion about the Urghur genocide is a sign of someone who isn’t engaged.
[removed]
[removed]
Title doesn’t match the video at all. For one thing, he clearly said that our government needs to hold other governments – explicitly including China – “to account for human rights abuses”. Is that not condemnation? Or is “human rights abuses” a compliment to whoever wrote this trash?
Repost of an old comment:
Yep, see the threads here. They call out his shitty translation of Chinese news.
[https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/kd8dah/chinese_government_forcing_hundreds_of_thousands/](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/kd8dah/chinese_government_forcing_hundreds_of_thousands/)
[https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/kd8dah/chinese_government_forcing_hundreds_of_thousands/gfvbwm1/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/kd8dah/chinese_government_forcing_hundreds_of_thousands/gfvbwm1/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>I am not trying to deny systematic persecution of the Uyghurs by the CCP, because it is happening: racism and discrimination, and in many instances systematic persecution, against religious and ethnic minorities is widespread and a common knowledge among us Chinese people, but you cannot make the leap into forced labor or even genocide territory without substantiated evidence. BBC is seriously undermining its own journalistic integrity here.
>
>First, Sudsworth is their long term China correspondent, and he has done great work here, but he doesn’t speak Chinese well, and not asking a Chinese speaker (not hard to find in the UK) to proofread is borderline unethical. Second, circular citations that always end up on Adrian Zenz as a source. Combine them together and BBC – one of world’s premier news agencies – is essentially validating a bogus activist’s word at face value. Millions of people will see it and take it as true because of BBC’s reputation, and since they don’t speak Chinese the vast majority of readers cannot fact check them, and this is a huge problem.
The most accurate number we’ve ever heard is from the Uyghur Tribunal which stated 5567 people were missing (bit shy of a million)
https://mobile.twitter.com/wandafay/status/1401424041047560198
It’s no wonder people are sceptical when a supposed 6-7 year genocide has resulted in no leaks, no bodies, no refugee crisis etc. It’s just odd, no? Coupled with the fact there is proof the CIA have been messing around in Xinjiang for decades too…
[removed]
[removed]
The number of china shills in this thread is too damn high!
Seriously though, burgon and his ilk really need to be removed from labour ASAP. They are an embarassment
(nobody on this thread really knows anything for sure about what is happening in China)
Most MPs would… this is not just a Labour problem.
You also have to ask what is accomplished by a Labour MP causing a diplomatic spat
That some in Labours membership think this dolt is the best and brightest and a good alternative for leader is hilarious.
They dont like Starmer but the reason Starmer is in is because absolute morons like this occupy other positions in the party.
LoL the UK is literally committing genocide in Yemen with our Saudi allies, we’re not talking about detention like in China we’re talking about utter mass murder.
To me, this interview highlights one of the most frustrating issues within the political establishment of the western world; That is the inability to recognize issues which transcend party lines, particularly when an issue violates our societal values so fundamentally.
As Individuals, the majority of us are the same. Horrified by the reports coming from Xinjiang, frustrated by the apparent indifference of the global community on the issue. But look at these comments and ask yourself if as an electorate we are actually any better, seriously. In 30 seconds you can read: Comments on David Cameron, prime minister before the Uyghurs issue was widely known, Comments about why the MP isn’t actually a Chinese sympathizer. However, not a single comment on the actual issue, that being in a debate over the Lives of innocent people, in which neither MP could find common ground with the other. I don’t really know what’s more shameful: MP’s callousness or our inability to recognize it.
Seriously, how have so many people just blindly accepted that theres a genocide going on. Fucking scary what you people are willing to believe with no reason to other than a bunch of articles all written by the same person.
Is this what people mean when they try to explain the horseshoe theory?
So typical that during a discussion about mass genocide this man’s first point is about mean words, and the second is a deflection to the USA. Politicians sicken me.
Weird.
I got the exact opposite impression after watching the video.
The other fella was practically calling Chinese students in the UK agents of the Communist Party who were all pro-genocide.
The problem with China now is that if you criticise them in any way you can be put in prison. Say a politician was outspoken on a particular genocide or tiennamen square. Next time they are in China they can be arrested
Some sad pathetic Brits will care more about this exchange than about all the damage the Tory government have done for 10 years now.
They will ALWAYS try to distract you by blaming Labour for something utterly irrelevant.