Hello, I was doing research on Rome and Greece and such and stumbled upon this, is this true? And if yes, how much is the term ”Romioi” used and is it used everywhere in Greece?

49 comments

  3. Yes is true. All Greek citizens called themselves Romioi until 70s due to the fact that they was heir of East Roman empire . Now it isn’t anymore mainstream but it is true.

  4. Romioi is just the hellenised version of the term Romans. It’s a synonym. Nothing surprising about the subjects of the Roman Empire identifying themselves as Romans. By late Antiquity, the term Hellenes had declined, following the assimilation to the Roman identity and the negative connotations (paganism) associated with the label Hellenic.

    Since the 10th century, the term Hellenes reemerged in the writings of a few antiquarian intellectuals, attempting to rediscover a part of the classical heritage and make a distinction from the Latin Romans. This of course didn’t gain popular attraction, so the people continued to refer to themselves as Romans. This persisted even after the collapse of the Byzantine Empire and until the 20th century.

    Following the spread of national education, Romioi has all but disappeared, getting replaced by Hellenes. For a fascinating reading about this subject, I recommend you professor Kaldellis’ Hellenism in Byzantium.

  5. Yes, its not as common, but its valid to use it even nowadays in Greece and some do use it.

    But obviously it is considered an old term. Even if still valid.

    Greeks did call themselves Romans for 1000 years in the Eastern Roman Empire and that didnt easily change.

  7. Fan-Fact: Greek-Cypriots do as well. As the other commentors pointed, not as often but we have a very known poem in the Cypriot dialect called “the 9th of July”.
    The last verse goes:
    «Η Ρωμιοσύνη εν φυλή συνότζιαιρη του κόσμου,
    κανένας δεν εβρέθηκεν για να την-ι-ξηλείψη,
    κανένας, γιατί σιέπει την που τάψη ο Θεός μου.
    Η Ρωμιοσύνη εν να χαθή, όντας ο κόσμος λείψη!”

    In English: “The ‘Romanism(as Roman prople or Romioi) will dissappear, when the world dissappears, because god looks after it”.

    In Greek:” Η Ρωμιοσύνη είναι φυλή συνόκαιρη του κόσμου,
    κανένας δεν βρέθηκε για να την εξαλείψη.
    Κανένας γιατί την προσέχει ο Θεός μου.
    Η Ρωμιοσύνη θα χαθεί, όταν ο κόσμος λείψη.

  8. My grandparents on both sides NEVER called themselves Greeks. Only Romans. I still prefer to consider myself Roman rather than “Greek”.

  9. About a year ago, in September 2021, the renowned composer, statesman and political activist, Mikis Theodorakis, one of the most prominent Greek figures of the mid-late 20th century, passed away. When that happened the Prime Minister of Greece declared a three-day official mourning session for Greece, with the statement “Rhomeosene laments today!”. Many other politicians of various parties all over the political spectrum issued similar statements mentioning Greece as Rhomeosene.

    And what is this “Rhomeosene”? It is “Rhomaeosene”, the Romanitas, the Romanness, the political and national identity of the Roman State in its modern form, which after 22 centuries of being equated to all of Greekness it has come to refer to both as one and the same thing.

  10. It is a constant trope throughout recorded history [for Greeks to go by many names](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Greeks).

    Even Greeks are unaware of most of those names. For example, the famous phrase “Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes”, is translated to “Φοβού τους Δαναούς και δώρα φέροντας” in Greek. Most do not know that the word “Danaos” is just a homeric word for “Greeks” (just like “Argives” or “Akhaioí”) and think it refers to Danes or something.

  11. For an actual answer:

    After the fall of the City to Mehmet Faith Osmanoglu, he claimed himself to rule over all Roman citizens, much like the Byzantine (aka Roman) emperor claimed to do. In that regard, the Ottoman empire was split between “nations” or “millets”.

    The nation of the Romans, which included ALL Christians of the Orthodox rite bar the Circassians, is what our ancestors were part of from ca 1480 to 1925. They were subject to different laws, exempt from serving in the military while paying a higher per-capita tax for example.

    Now, Greeks that have anatolian descent and were Ottoman citizens up until the empire’s dissolution are more likely to still call themselves Romans. Or their fathers and grandfathers are. The “Greeks” in the southern Balkans who got independence in 1832 had 100 years more to forge a hellenic identity, which in-line with what the German Kings established on the state envisioned, focused more on ancient Greek history while also worshipping the main characters of their independence war.

  17. In the Ionian Islands, the locals never used this term to identify themselves. Despite that, it was occasionally used (mainly in Ionian literature) to identify the Mainland Greeks or more generally all the Greeks that were under the dominion of the Ottomans.

  18. Pontic Greeks (mostly our grandparents) still use it till this day.

    Other than that, you won’t hear it anywhere else.

  19. Fun “fact”. And I quote the word fact because I don’t remember the source: During the Ottoman occupation of mainland Greece, parts of the illiterate christian population that called themselves “Romioi”, used to believe that “Greeks” were pagans, and giants of old, that existed before Noah’s flood.

  20. Theare is too a song that is named “ti romisini mi tin klais” (don’t cry about romioi,or something because i can’t translate accurately the word “romiosini) that is a poem from poet Giannis Ritsos.

  21. Well, yes Romioi were all the citizens of the Eastern Roman Empire that follow Orthodox Christianity and greek was their native language.

    I need to mention that the word Greek back then was describing the people that had the greek as their native language but they were following the Olympians/Hellenic religion.

  22. It’s rarely used nowadays but it reflects the fact that Greeks were citizens of the Roman Empire up to 1453.

  23. That is a word that ment “true citizen of the eastern Roman empire” with main characteristics of Greek language and Christian religion. At that time the Romioi lived througout the whole eastern Mediterranean. The term was heavily used in the years of ottoman empire. Nowadays Greece as a country uses Hellas as internal name and Hellen for its citizens. Just as a clarification, because the Romioi still live in other countries too, beyond on all those pogroms against them that have happened through the times.
    Nowadays is only used as slang in Greece and very rarely. And of course it is good it is not used because if it does it brings back memories of the fallen Byzantine empire, and our lost capital, Constantinople, still called “The City” from people.

  24. There is a story from the Balkan Wars, by Panagiotis Charanis, a Greek-American Byzantinologist born in Lemnos. During 1912 the Greek Navy captured the island of Lemnos from the Ottoman Empire and Greek troops landed to secure the main towns. The children from the villages of the island came to the town squares to watch the soldiers from Greece.

    The story goes that one Greek soldier got irritated and the following dialog between him and the children followed:

    – What are you starring at , you rascals ??!!
    – We are looking at the Greeks!
    – And what are you, yourselves, huh? You are Greeks too!
    – No no! We are the Romans (“Romioi”)…

  25. You still hear it, but mostly from the crypto-Greeks still living in what is today Turkey, but also the Greeks of the Levant.

    There was a debate about what ethnonym us Greeks would take even before we started our revolutionary war for independence (in 1821).

    Would it be Hellenes (seen as ancient but pagan)?

    Would it be Grekoi (seen as too Latin)?

    Romioi (seen as Byzantine Christian, but not that applicable anymore)?

    In the end, Hellenes was the consensus. (Of course, other languages reference is differently, but I digress.)

  27. The term “Byzantine” was used for the first time by the German historian Hieronymus Wulf, decades after the fall of Constantinople, in an attempt to present the Holy Roman Empire, as the sole spiritual inheritor of Rome. The “Byzantines” as we call them today were Romans. The fun fact is that Italy and Rome itself, were under roman rule for a 1000 years but Greece for around 1500.

  28. Pontic Greeks sometimes call them selves Roman, not Romioi but Romaioi which means Romans. Pontic Greeks cal their language Romeika. Turks call pontic Greeks Rum.

  29. yes it s true. it is also commonly used in poetry, as it anchors greeks to their common past (less so recently)

    The byzantines also called themselves thus (“Byzantine” is a neologism by Hieronymus Wolf)

  31. You have some good answers here, so I won’t add anything to that, except that the term Roman came to represent more than a ‘civic’ identity of citizenship. In many ways, modern Greek identity is a transformation of that Roman identity — from the late 18th c. — based on the influences of the (western European) Enlightenment and nationalism.

    If you are interested in how the identity of a ‘Roman’ (Gr: Romeos, Romios) came to be, I would recommend the books/works of Anthony Kaldellis. He is a historian of Byzantium. Specifically, the book *Romanland* (2019) is probably the more pertinent to the issue of Roman identity. The book *Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood* (2017), which narrates the period surrounding the reign of Basil II, is probably more approachable.

    Edit: added a couple of sentences in the first paragraph.

  32. It’s rarely used, more poetically nowadays than anything. But almost everyone knows it’s one of the names modern Greeks have used historically for themselves.

    Btw, this person is wrong that “we are not Romans”.

    Or rather, whatever the truth of that statement may be (won’t get into it), the people who now identify as Greeks used to call themselves Romans for 1000+ years.

    Make of that what you will but “Romios” was not meant to mean something different from “Roman” as he implies.

  34. Technically true, but extremely rare. Hellene/ Hellenes (Ellinas/Ellines) is almost exclusively how we refer to ourselves.

  41. Rimioi is used in older Greek literature and poetry, and many Greek still use this term but mostly in popular language. It’s, as other day, and older term for Greeks, but it’s another way to say Greek in a more profound way. When a Greek say Romios (singular of romioi) I think he/she says that while feeling proud of being Greek. This is how I see it as a Greek. It is also true that (as others said) is a hellenised way of saying Roman, but it doesn’t have that meaning any more. When we say romioi we (or it’s just me) do not ever think of the Roman or even Byzantine empire. I think it’s mostly associated with the hundrends of years of ottoman occupation, and the Greek revolution of independence and the years of Greece trying to be a bigger state again. Young people may not use it that much, but it’s still not uncommon to say it.

  43. No one I know ever called himself that. I know that in old times in eastern europe they used to call the greek minorities living there romans but that’s it. I would consider somebody who refers to themselves as such quite odd.

  48. As for its pronunciation, a better description might be “Romyee”. If there was an `m` equivalent to `ñ`, that would replace the `-my-`

  49. We call ourselves Hellenes – Ellines 99% of the time.

    Romans -Romioi (Rum for the Turks) is more rare today and is mostly found in songs and poems, as well as the even rarer Greeks – Grekoi from the Roman word.

    Turks also call us Yunan from Ionians, the ancient name of the Greeks in Asia minor.

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