But look how the Irish government used big tech to support Ireland. You now only have to pay €25 to see a GP and €750 an hour for the Fire Brigade.
Edit: Apparently it’s It’s €60-70 to see a doctor. The absolute state of it, 3rd world country.
Maybe the non-Irish Europeans, but you can’t say that it hasn’t worked out for the Irish. Their GDP has skyrocketed in the last few decades due to those foreign investments and you would rather have 10 huge multinational corporations pay 10% tax rate(i’m just making the numbers up) than 0 huge multinational corporations pay 15%. It’s selfish from the point of us Europeans, but I don’t think the average Irish minds it.
Saying something negative about Ireland on Reddit?
That’s brave.
I mean, the whole tax heaven sheme sucks, but maybe just _try_ to tone down the hyberbole?
Otherwise you could just claim software piracey costs the society 15 gazillon bucks per year.
yeah, only the countries with boundless populations, natural resources, A1 infrastructure or of course military power should be allowed to have an advantage of any kind….we wont spread those things around equitably, what?, of course not those are natural advantages that some nations are simply destined to have.. its the natural order of things. some countries are just way better than others … germany, france, america etc are just better places that are destined to succeed and always will be, get over it
but what we will do is make it so so everyones policy is “fair” …we wouldnt want tiny nations with no other unique business lures to have a competitive advantage of any kind over germany or the united states, thats crazy talk.
Ireland is not a terribly well off state. definitely behind continental europe.. to think that joe biden complained that countries like ireland had an unfair advantage over super power united states was laughable….he didnt want to lower his own taxes or his base would have eaten him alive so he raised everyone elses taxes…
​
because now its a fair competition between the united states and ireland..
The better question would be who’s more guilty: Apple or Ireland?
>“Cancel it. Ireland, for its own benefit, has robbed poor working people around the world of tens of trillions of dollars. Huge quantities. Take the world’s first trillion-dollar corporation, its headquarters are in Ireland, [which] means it doesn’t have to pay US taxes.
with this logic every country that give better offers for companies is stealing from poor. Because American corporation offshore their work to my country they are stealing from poor Americans?
Also countries should rather see how they can change themselves to attract business rather than blame Ireland.
Isnt Holland doing the same shit?
We were always honest about our tax rate guys….
Everyone in Europe was fine with this rate when we were a shitty little backwater economy on the outskirts of Europe and *approved* this rate when we joined.
The only difference now is it worked too well and other big countries can’t be having that….
**Ireland claws it’s way out of extreme poverty as a post colonial state using non-violent methods.*
**Countries that developed and gained wealth through brutal colonization:*
*”Wait. That’s illegal!”*
*”But but but… Companies pay zero tax!”*
No. No they don’t. Legislation was introduced back in 2015 to close “The Double Irish”, so companies do pay tax. Weird how everyone bitches about Ireland, butnever mentions Holland or Luxemberg.
*”Well…. they pay less than the rest of Europe! Ireland should increase their tax rate so* *~~our country can get those companies~~* *they compete fairly! Companies paying higher taxes is good for everyone!”*
Except Ireland…… Without those companies, Ireland would still be a desperately poor speck on the very outskirts of Europe. If Ireland and France or Germany had the same tax rate, no country is going to set up in an isolated island, with high cost of living, high fixed costs, and poor infrastructure. Ireland would quickly go back to poverty.
​
While France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Britain, etc all built their infrastructure and wealth using colonial exploitation, Ireland had their wealth stolen by colonialization. So we don’t even have trains in 99% of the country. In rural areas, our roads are shit and barely big enough for 1 car. We don’t even have forests anymore because Britain cut them all down to sell for profit.
A few decades of prosperity hasn’t undone centuries of exploitation and poverty.
So, unless you guys have some kind of miracle solution to compensate Ireland for the huge loss of tax revenue and jobs, why the hell should Ireland destroy themselves economically just to satisfy bigger countries that would reap all the benefits?
He makes a lot of fair points. A common taxation policy is necessary, but only with a common fiscal policy.
Germany and France (the country, not their people I’m talking about) want to take away advantages smaller, periphery countries have, such as tax levers. In their ideal world, the German manufacturing base is the centre of the EU with the rest of us poorer and poorer as we stray from the centre.
I don’t agree with our corporate tax loopholes (I agree with a lower corporate tax rate as a whole due to how inefficient economically corporate tax is though). However these countries need to start answering the question of how Ireland (or Malta, Cyprus, Greece, etc) are to compete on the EU stage?
We could be services based economies, that would overcome our geographic disadvantages. However ECB rules are written by Germany effectively which means banking and finance is probably never going to be our moneymaker. We in Ireland could be an agricultural economy, but we are told year on year to reduce our emissions which are disproportionately high due to disproportionately making the beef and dairy supply for the EU. The Southern Europeans could become tourist economies, existing solely to serve the Western and Central European base between March and October, effectively hibernating in the winter.
This is hyperbole, and our corporate tax policy needs to change, but there are questions that need to be answered in this debate. We can’t move towards tax unity, without fiscal unity.
This is a [prime example on an expert in one field uttering opinions on a totally unrelated field and people thinking he must be right ‘because he is very intelligent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority)’. This is stupid. Firstly ‘Ireland’ has done nothing it is the companies who found and use the loophole who do this. Secondly just as Ireland ‘did’ nothing, companies would have found another perhaps fractionally less lucrative loophole otherwise, it will not solve anything by accusing just Ireland: it are ruthless and greedy corporations and corporate lawyers who do this, and these are better paid and better resourced than government employees, [they even write parts of international treaties](https://corporateeurope.org/en/international-trade/2016/10/ttip-ultimate-corporate-trade-treaty). So pointing the finger and a relatively small nation servers no good purpose.
How dare Ireland raise itself from penury in a single lifetime by non violent means..Its totally unfair (on Germany and the United States)… we must be mindful of being fair (on Germany and the Unites States)
The irish should go back to scratching a living on the outskirts of europe, as their forefathers did…. thats justice.
Germany and the United States are naturally superior nations and they should dominate through natural right. If god hadnt wanted it to be so he wouldnt have granted them natural resources
If Ireland had had higher taxes, then all these businesses wouldn’t have settled there. So no, nobody was robbed. Low taxes was the price to pay for these tech jobs.
More european integration needs industrial/services plans for weaker periphery nations like ireland and greece so they can do well without doing awful shit like this.
Does Noam Chomsky think Ireland was always a rich nation?
Does he think Irish poor people don’t count?
If it wasn’t for he Irish tax regime incentivising FDI Ireland would still be a small island in the Atlantic that is poor & haemorrhaging it’s population through immigration. Ireland’s plan has worked wonders for Ireland and I see no reason why we should give it up just because someone in the United States or the EU is angry at us.
The EU for its strong competition laws sure do get angry & want very anti competitive laws when a country competes on having lower taxes.
Chomsky accidentally, foolishly sides with the hyper powerful global bullies against the national self determination of smaller weaker nations. (his is a linguist and a good writer…but thats all)
When all the other advantages Germany and France and the United States have over ireland have been nullified, then we can remove the advantages ireland has over other countries….if the point is fairness (and not sovereignty)
Yes we must make sure that ireland does not have an “unfair advantage” over the united states or germany.
all of those advantages that germany and the united states have over ireland, those are just fair and natural
If god didnt want powerful economies to be powerful he wouldnt have granted them natural resources, size, location etc etc
We must side with the global bullies and superpowers, against those rapacious tiny nations
We just signed to the OECD deal. Are you telling me that that’s not good enough? And if so, then why didn’t the OECD push for more?
Chomsky’s hypocrisy continues
Didn’t realize there were so many boot lickin capitalists in this sub, yikes
Many triggered neoliberals in the comment who believe Ireland should allow Amazon to pay tax there for profits made in France or Germany.
Just typical Chomsky nonsense.
Ahh, the great Chomsky. The man who has never stopped licking boots of left dictator his entire life.
25 comments
On the morality of Ireland’s tax regime.
But look how the Irish government used big tech to support Ireland. You now only have to pay €25 to see a GP and €750 an hour for the Fire Brigade.
Edit: Apparently it’s It’s €60-70 to see a doctor. The absolute state of it, 3rd world country.
Maybe the non-Irish Europeans, but you can’t say that it hasn’t worked out for the Irish. Their GDP has skyrocketed in the last few decades due to those foreign investments and you would rather have 10 huge multinational corporations pay 10% tax rate(i’m just making the numbers up) than 0 huge multinational corporations pay 15%. It’s selfish from the point of us Europeans, but I don’t think the average Irish minds it.
Saying something negative about Ireland on Reddit?
That’s brave.
I mean, the whole tax heaven sheme sucks, but maybe just _try_ to tone down the hyberbole?
Otherwise you could just claim software piracey costs the society 15 gazillon bucks per year.
yeah, only the countries with boundless populations, natural resources, A1 infrastructure or of course military power should be allowed to have an advantage of any kind….we wont spread those things around equitably, what?, of course not those are natural advantages that some nations are simply destined to have.. its the natural order of things. some countries are just way better than others … germany, france, america etc are just better places that are destined to succeed and always will be, get over it
but what we will do is make it so so everyones policy is “fair” …we wouldnt want tiny nations with no other unique business lures to have a competitive advantage of any kind over germany or the united states, thats crazy talk.
Ireland is not a terribly well off state. definitely behind continental europe.. to think that joe biden complained that countries like ireland had an unfair advantage over super power united states was laughable….he didnt want to lower his own taxes or his base would have eaten him alive so he raised everyone elses taxes…
​
because now its a fair competition between the united states and ireland..
The better question would be who’s more guilty: Apple or Ireland?
>“Cancel it. Ireland, for its own benefit, has robbed poor working people around the world of tens of trillions of dollars. Huge quantities. Take the world’s first trillion-dollar corporation, its headquarters are in Ireland, [which] means it doesn’t have to pay US taxes.
with this logic every country that give better offers for companies is stealing from poor. Because American corporation offshore their work to my country they are stealing from poor Americans?
Also countries should rather see how they can change themselves to attract business rather than blame Ireland.
Isnt Holland doing the same shit?
We were always honest about our tax rate guys….
Everyone in Europe was fine with this rate when we were a shitty little backwater economy on the outskirts of Europe and *approved* this rate when we joined.
The only difference now is it worked too well and other big countries can’t be having that….
**Ireland claws it’s way out of extreme poverty as a post colonial state using non-violent methods.*
**Countries that developed and gained wealth through brutal colonization:*
*”Wait. That’s illegal!”*
*”But but but… Companies pay zero tax!”*
No. No they don’t. Legislation was introduced back in 2015 to close “The Double Irish”, so companies do pay tax. Weird how everyone bitches about Ireland, butnever mentions Holland or Luxemberg.
*”Well…. they pay less than the rest of Europe! Ireland should increase their tax rate so* *~~our country can get those companies~~* *they compete fairly! Companies paying higher taxes is good for everyone!”*
Except Ireland…… Without those companies, Ireland would still be a desperately poor speck on the very outskirts of Europe. If Ireland and France or Germany had the same tax rate, no country is going to set up in an isolated island, with high cost of living, high fixed costs, and poor infrastructure. Ireland would quickly go back to poverty.
​
While France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Britain, etc all built their infrastructure and wealth using colonial exploitation, Ireland had their wealth stolen by colonialization. So we don’t even have trains in 99% of the country. In rural areas, our roads are shit and barely big enough for 1 car. We don’t even have forests anymore because Britain cut them all down to sell for profit.
A few decades of prosperity hasn’t undone centuries of exploitation and poverty.
So, unless you guys have some kind of miracle solution to compensate Ireland for the huge loss of tax revenue and jobs, why the hell should Ireland destroy themselves economically just to satisfy bigger countries that would reap all the benefits?
He makes a lot of fair points. A common taxation policy is necessary, but only with a common fiscal policy.
Germany and France (the country, not their people I’m talking about) want to take away advantages smaller, periphery countries have, such as tax levers. In their ideal world, the German manufacturing base is the centre of the EU with the rest of us poorer and poorer as we stray from the centre.
I don’t agree with our corporate tax loopholes (I agree with a lower corporate tax rate as a whole due to how inefficient economically corporate tax is though). However these countries need to start answering the question of how Ireland (or Malta, Cyprus, Greece, etc) are to compete on the EU stage?
We could be services based economies, that would overcome our geographic disadvantages. However ECB rules are written by Germany effectively which means banking and finance is probably never going to be our moneymaker. We in Ireland could be an agricultural economy, but we are told year on year to reduce our emissions which are disproportionately high due to disproportionately making the beef and dairy supply for the EU. The Southern Europeans could become tourist economies, existing solely to serve the Western and Central European base between March and October, effectively hibernating in the winter.
This is hyperbole, and our corporate tax policy needs to change, but there are questions that need to be answered in this debate. We can’t move towards tax unity, without fiscal unity.
This is a [prime example on an expert in one field uttering opinions on a totally unrelated field and people thinking he must be right ‘because he is very intelligent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority)’. This is stupid. Firstly ‘Ireland’ has done nothing it is the companies who found and use the loophole who do this. Secondly just as Ireland ‘did’ nothing, companies would have found another perhaps fractionally less lucrative loophole otherwise, it will not solve anything by accusing just Ireland: it are ruthless and greedy corporations and corporate lawyers who do this, and these are better paid and better resourced than government employees, [they even write parts of international treaties](https://corporateeurope.org/en/international-trade/2016/10/ttip-ultimate-corporate-trade-treaty). So pointing the finger and a relatively small nation servers no good purpose.
How dare Ireland raise itself from penury in a single lifetime by non violent means..Its totally unfair (on Germany and the United States)… we must be mindful of being fair (on Germany and the Unites States)
The irish should go back to scratching a living on the outskirts of europe, as their forefathers did…. thats justice.
Germany and the United States are naturally superior nations and they should dominate through natural right. If god hadnt wanted it to be so he wouldnt have granted them natural resources
If Ireland had had higher taxes, then all these businesses wouldn’t have settled there. So no, nobody was robbed. Low taxes was the price to pay for these tech jobs.
More european integration needs industrial/services plans for weaker periphery nations like ireland and greece so they can do well without doing awful shit like this.
Does Noam Chomsky think Ireland was always a rich nation?
Does he think Irish poor people don’t count?
If it wasn’t for he Irish tax regime incentivising FDI Ireland would still be a small island in the Atlantic that is poor & haemorrhaging it’s population through immigration. Ireland’s plan has worked wonders for Ireland and I see no reason why we should give it up just because someone in the United States or the EU is angry at us.
The EU for its strong competition laws sure do get angry & want very anti competitive laws when a country competes on having lower taxes.
Chomsky accidentally, foolishly sides with the hyper powerful global bullies against the national self determination of smaller weaker nations. (his is a linguist and a good writer…but thats all)
When all the other advantages Germany and France and the United States have over ireland have been nullified, then we can remove the advantages ireland has over other countries….if the point is fairness (and not sovereignty)
Yes we must make sure that ireland does not have an “unfair advantage” over the united states or germany.
all of those advantages that germany and the united states have over ireland, those are just fair and natural
If god didnt want powerful economies to be powerful he wouldnt have granted them natural resources, size, location etc etc
We must side with the global bullies and superpowers, against those rapacious tiny nations
We just signed to the OECD deal. Are you telling me that that’s not good enough? And if so, then why didn’t the OECD push for more?
Chomsky’s hypocrisy continues
Didn’t realize there were so many boot lickin capitalists in this sub, yikes
Many triggered neoliberals in the comment who believe Ireland should allow Amazon to pay tax there for profits made in France or Germany.
Just typical Chomsky nonsense.
Ahh, the great Chomsky. The man who has never stopped licking boots of left dictator his entire life.