Not remotely surprising. Educating our young people isn’t exactly considered a priority around here.
Remeber in 2018 that fuckin wagon in the audience of the presidential tv debate told Martin McGuinness that he wasn’t Irish, that she didn’t know about the troubles and didn’t want him bringing all that “down here”.
Just do a tik toc video.. problem solved
Who does?
Depends massively on what you mean by ‘understand’ I’d say. I’d be surprised if half the people who did say they understand the conflict had any depth of knowledge beyond generalities.
Young people might be more inclined to admit their ignorance too, as opposed to older people who always infallibly understand everything about the world.
I say this as a not so young person who thinks they ‘understand’ the conflict, but would crumble if I had to start recalling dates, chronology or significant actors.
Edit:
>In 1998, children as young as 11 were reading the full text of the Good Friday Agreement in class,
I was exactly 11 in 1998 and I’d never even heard of the GFA, let alone read it! I never encountered the actual text in any schoolroom subsequently either and I did history until the LC.
I usually like Emma Desouza but this is stretching the issue imo.
Do older people? An awful lot of not-giving-a-shit went on. Does reading the Good Friday Agreement equate with understanding the conflict? I don’t think it does. But sure, would make sense to cover it in history class.
800 years…. Next question please…
It was all about crisps, wasn’t it?
Mad to think that for a year or two history wasn’t a compulsory junior certificate subject.
Science still isn’t a compulsory subject for the junior certificate yet Irish continues to be compulsory until the Leaving.
You don’t understand a conflict unless you can recite the peace treaty word for word apparently
I don’t agree with the author’s take on this at all, which, frankly, seems overly concerned with the level of support shown to SF than is really relevant to the topic at hand. It’s not the first time I’ve seen it recently either.
Young people *should* be able to take peace for granted. That’s the whole point of having peace – so that future generations can go out and enjoy themselves and be about their business without worrying about bombs or guns or what religion your street is.
Further, I think that the younger generations, on both sides of the border, are far more open to the idea of reconciliation, unification, and moving forward together than mine or older generations ever were. Ours were the generations that voted based on Civil War politics. Ours were the generations that Section 31’d Sinn Féin representatives on the airwaves, as they tried to represent those people and communities that elected them.
And give over with the hyperbole about the GFA. Like fuck was it read by 11 year-olds in classrooms across the nation “such was the level of interest in what would become one of the greatest political achievements of the last century”. My arse. 95% of us got the gist of it and voted accordingly. It’s not that complicated a deal.
What we’re seeing today is not indifference to the north. It’s acceptance of the north. It’s recognition that those living the other side of a legal line are just like ourselves.
If the literati are wondering at the rise in support for SF, they should perhaps take a moment to wonder at the swathes of older people who viscerally *hate* Sinn Féin and don’t really have any good reason why anymore. “One of the greatest political achievements of the last century” worked. SF are included in the normal political scenery now, and the time for wondering at it like children gaping at a magic trick is long over. Aside from detached human empathy, young people don’t give one flying fuck about what happened in Ballymacwhogivesashit back in 1983; they are in borderline poverty listening to FF and FG telling them that SF would ruin the country. You know – those two parties that won’t finally get a room because someone’s grandad took a pot-shot at someone else’s grandad back in 1923. They are looking at a disfunctional border and an economy rocking from Brexit pipedreams while listening to talk about looking at research into investigating possibilities for reaching out to communities to build a “shared future” while the other guy gives them the finger and burns tyres.
Young people want to get on with it. It’s the middle-aged and older that are fucking it up. We’re not ‘failing the next generation by not providing them with the knowledge and the tools necessary to take forward the peace process’; we’re failing them by not having the balls to change a system that is by now clearly dysfunctional. We don’t have any special wisdom. We don’t have any secret keys; most of us couldn’t find our arses with both hands and a map. We’re *terrified* of the GFA. We don’t want to touch it. We’re waiting on the UK or the US to make the first move. And we never really accepted what the GFA actually meant – the normalisation and complete and irrevocable inclusion of republicans in our everyday politics. But now we don’t want the Troubles and we don’t want republicans either. We want to harp on about how wonderful we were in crafting this amazing peace deal – we just don’t like those disruptive strange people that came with it.
as a nordie I get asked too much down south if I’m some orange man prod… If that was the case i wouldn’t be working/learning/ living here in the south
I’m 20 and haven’t a clue. Also don’t give a flying fuck, why should I?
Most people learn through their experiences in life.
For young Irish people they experience going to mainland Europe, and different parts of the UK. Meeting the people living there. Experiencing their culture. Etc.
For most young people, simply comparing their experience of the Republic and Northern Ireland informs their opinion of the island of Ireland.
The problem with Norther Ireland is when contrasted with elsewhere in Europe and the UK, it’s generally is considered a lot less favourable.
A simple contemplation on the cultural differences between the Republic, or the the rest of the UK, and Northern Ireland, comes to the natural conclusion that the Unionists and Orange culture of Northern Ireland is a toxic mess of bigotry and hate. And if it’s like this in 2022, what must it have been like in the last century.
Basically, it’s all England’s fault
This is a misleading interpretation and the poll was way to vague.
Do I understand the conflict in NI? Yes.
Do I really understand it? No – it’s complicated as fuck and constantly developing as new info and studies are produced.
Can only be a good thing if young people aren’t bogged down in the past and take things at face value as they are now. Upswing for Sinn Fein now but if they get into power and fail miserably they’ll be voted out. Younger voters don’t have those old school allegiances. It’s older people who vote for a party regardless of policy like they’re supporting a football team
They dumb
Or to be more accurate, half of young people understand they don’t understand the Troubles. The reality is loads of people think they understand it, when they actually don’t.
Thats the narrative. But many here (donegal) don’t know about the Dublin and Monahan bombings either. Everyone is more privvy to what happens either to them or whats on their doorstep.
21 comments
Not remotely surprising. Educating our young people isn’t exactly considered a priority around here.
Remeber in 2018 that fuckin wagon in the audience of the presidential tv debate told Martin McGuinness that he wasn’t Irish, that she didn’t know about the troubles and didn’t want him bringing all that “down here”.
Just do a tik toc video.. problem solved
Who does?
Depends massively on what you mean by ‘understand’ I’d say. I’d be surprised if half the people who did say they understand the conflict had any depth of knowledge beyond generalities.
Young people might be more inclined to admit their ignorance too, as opposed to older people who always infallibly understand everything about the world.
I say this as a not so young person who thinks they ‘understand’ the conflict, but would crumble if I had to start recalling dates, chronology or significant actors.
Edit:
>In 1998, children as young as 11 were reading the full text of the Good Friday Agreement in class,
I was exactly 11 in 1998 and I’d never even heard of the GFA, let alone read it! I never encountered the actual text in any schoolroom subsequently either and I did history until the LC.
I usually like Emma Desouza but this is stretching the issue imo.
Do older people? An awful lot of not-giving-a-shit went on. Does reading the Good Friday Agreement equate with understanding the conflict? I don’t think it does. But sure, would make sense to cover it in history class.
800 years…. Next question please…
It was all about crisps, wasn’t it?
Mad to think that for a year or two history wasn’t a compulsory junior certificate subject.
Science still isn’t a compulsory subject for the junior certificate yet Irish continues to be compulsory until the Leaving.
You don’t understand a conflict unless you can recite the peace treaty word for word apparently
I don’t agree with the author’s take on this at all, which, frankly, seems overly concerned with the level of support shown to SF than is really relevant to the topic at hand. It’s not the first time I’ve seen it recently either.
Young people *should* be able to take peace for granted. That’s the whole point of having peace – so that future generations can go out and enjoy themselves and be about their business without worrying about bombs or guns or what religion your street is.
Further, I think that the younger generations, on both sides of the border, are far more open to the idea of reconciliation, unification, and moving forward together than mine or older generations ever were. Ours were the generations that voted based on Civil War politics. Ours were the generations that Section 31’d Sinn Féin representatives on the airwaves, as they tried to represent those people and communities that elected them.
And give over with the hyperbole about the GFA. Like fuck was it read by 11 year-olds in classrooms across the nation “such was the level of interest in what would become one of the greatest political achievements of the last century”. My arse. 95% of us got the gist of it and voted accordingly. It’s not that complicated a deal.
What we’re seeing today is not indifference to the north. It’s acceptance of the north. It’s recognition that those living the other side of a legal line are just like ourselves.
If the literati are wondering at the rise in support for SF, they should perhaps take a moment to wonder at the swathes of older people who viscerally *hate* Sinn Féin and don’t really have any good reason why anymore. “One of the greatest political achievements of the last century” worked. SF are included in the normal political scenery now, and the time for wondering at it like children gaping at a magic trick is long over. Aside from detached human empathy, young people don’t give one flying fuck about what happened in Ballymacwhogivesashit back in 1983; they are in borderline poverty listening to FF and FG telling them that SF would ruin the country. You know – those two parties that won’t finally get a room because someone’s grandad took a pot-shot at someone else’s grandad back in 1923. They are looking at a disfunctional border and an economy rocking from Brexit pipedreams while listening to talk about looking at research into investigating possibilities for reaching out to communities to build a “shared future” while the other guy gives them the finger and burns tyres.
Young people want to get on with it. It’s the middle-aged and older that are fucking it up. We’re not ‘failing the next generation by not providing them with the knowledge and the tools necessary to take forward the peace process’; we’re failing them by not having the balls to change a system that is by now clearly dysfunctional. We don’t have any special wisdom. We don’t have any secret keys; most of us couldn’t find our arses with both hands and a map. We’re *terrified* of the GFA. We don’t want to touch it. We’re waiting on the UK or the US to make the first move. And we never really accepted what the GFA actually meant – the normalisation and complete and irrevocable inclusion of republicans in our everyday politics. But now we don’t want the Troubles and we don’t want republicans either. We want to harp on about how wonderful we were in crafting this amazing peace deal – we just don’t like those disruptive strange people that came with it.
as a nordie I get asked too much down south if I’m some orange man prod… If that was the case i wouldn’t be working/learning/ living here in the south
I’m 20 and haven’t a clue. Also don’t give a flying fuck, why should I?
Most people learn through their experiences in life.
For young Irish people they experience going to mainland Europe, and different parts of the UK. Meeting the people living there. Experiencing their culture. Etc.
For most young people, simply comparing their experience of the Republic and Northern Ireland informs their opinion of the island of Ireland.
The problem with Norther Ireland is when contrasted with elsewhere in Europe and the UK, it’s generally is considered a lot less favourable.
A simple contemplation on the cultural differences between the Republic, or the the rest of the UK, and Northern Ireland, comes to the natural conclusion that the Unionists and Orange culture of Northern Ireland is a toxic mess of bigotry and hate. And if it’s like this in 2022, what must it have been like in the last century.
Basically, it’s all England’s fault
This is a misleading interpretation and the poll was way to vague.
Do I understand the conflict in NI? Yes.
Do I really understand it? No – it’s complicated as fuck and constantly developing as new info and studies are produced.
Can only be a good thing if young people aren’t bogged down in the past and take things at face value as they are now. Upswing for Sinn Fein now but if they get into power and fail miserably they’ll be voted out. Younger voters don’t have those old school allegiances. It’s older people who vote for a party regardless of policy like they’re supporting a football team
They dumb
Or to be more accurate, half of young people understand they don’t understand the Troubles. The reality is loads of people think they understand it, when they actually don’t.
Thats the narrative. But many here (donegal) don’t know about the Dublin and Monahan bombings either. Everyone is more privvy to what happens either to them or whats on their doorstep.