Did the SNP really try and compare Scotland to Kosovo??
This was never going to go any other way – I don’t think it was ever truly up for debate. The legal position is pretty clear
Summary:
* Unanimous verdict
* Ruled that as it impacts the Union that it is a reserved matter
* Rules that because Scotland isn’t under occupation or under a colonial oppression that some of the arguments put forward by the Scottish Government don’t apply
Yeah this isn’t a surprise ruling, it’s the right decision
* The reference is permissible and the Court agrees to hear it.
* The proposed referendum bill has more than a loose or consequential connection with the Union; it therefore relates to a reserved matter within the meaning of the Scotland Act and so is outside the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.
Is anyone surprised at this? If they decided it was competent to make a decision then no was always going to be the answer.
Disgraceful from the SNP to compare themselves to Kosovo.
Well,
I’m sure that will put this argument to bed once and for all, with all parties accepting this ruling with good grace.
Where does the SNP turn to now?
I think they may have overplayed their hand this time.
They have traditionally stood by the position that they were opposed to unilateral secession. Because of this court ruling, they either have to backtrack on that position, or abandon Scottish independence for the next few years.
This also makes things more complicated even than that, if they decide to go for unilateral secession, as that means re-entering the EU would be made difficult. While most EU nations would welcome Scotland easily if it became independent through a bilateral agreement with Westminster, unilateral declarations of secession… oof.
That opens a Pandora’s Box for certain EU countries.
No surprise at all.
It’s the same as the Catalan independence vote, it has to be done constitutionally and Scotland doesn’t have the constitutional powers to do this. It willingly entered the 1707 Act of Union, if they wanted to be able to have a vote then provision could have been made – like the differences in legal system.
“Voluntary Union of Equals”…weird that it doesn’t include the choice to leave. You’d think if it was a voluntary Union of Equals, any member would have the right to leave.
Wasn’t going to go any other way.
However, There’s an valid argument now that all this ruling does is shows the Scottish people that they do not have the power to decide their destiny – its London. As if they needed any more reminders.
Sturgeon has her next GE slogan there.
Being “tough on Scots” and presumably “tough on the causes of Scots” is a vote winner in England. Especially now that they have taken back control from the EU and have fewer foreigners to blame for their ills the buck will be passed to the Scots and the Irish.
This is only going to get worse, every party except the SNP openly states they will ignore Scotland or refuse to work with the elected representatives of Scotland. Where does that leave us if you won’t talk or work with us, won’t allow us to out on our own and won’t even allow us the option of discussing it.
Great, so we are stuck with the corrupt idiots in Westminster with a party didn’t vote for, led by a PM we didn’t vote for, as we continue to feel the effects of a Brexit that we didn’t vote for.
The problem with Sturgeon which the UK government will continue to hammer her and those that were also part of indyref1 was that they acted in bad faith. They sold this referendum as a once in a generation vote, yet when the majority of Scottish people voiced their wish to be part of the UK, the SNP just waited a year before starting off again for another vote. I believe the SNP would have used any reason they can think of to justify another referendum. I’m just surprised the people of Scotland continue to vote for the SNP considering that’s all she and her predecessor Alex Salmond cared about.
In my opinion Sturgeon knew this all along, I mean any political leader worth there salt would of known unless they’re a Tory.
All she has done is waste time and money with this to cause more chaos and disorder to distract from the main issues in Scotland. If the Torys weren’t so much of a shit show to mask over her shit show of leader she’d be gone and she should go after this.
Win win for sturgeon gets to keep campaigning for Scottish independence without the consequences of actual having one and also gets to blame Westminster for it all.
You’ve got a country that keeps voting for a party whose main thing is leaving the union. What are the Scottish people to do since there is no legal recourse left to them to express their desires?
I do love all the people acting as if this is some big loss for the SNP… this was always going to be the outcome of the Supreme Court, and if people on Reddit could predict that then I’m pretty sure so did Sturgeon.
Will be interesting where it goes next. If people think this will make the Scots go “oh that’s alright then, at least we tried” then I think they’re seriously naive.
The Better Together campaign in 2014:
# What is process for removing our EU citizenship? Voting yes. #scotdecides
I’ve yet to see any argument that Scottish independence isn’t just Brexit 2
All these bleeding heart revolutionaries saying that they no longer live in a democracy and they’ll have to ‘find other ways’.
Mate. The SNP doesn’t even know what it’s going to do if Scotland votes to leave anyway. They have basically no plan, even almost a decade later. And the promises they have made are overwhelmingly lies. This is a party that straight up makes shit up whenever. They know their diehard fans don’t care.
Also most of the democracies in the world don’t let a minority make decisions with nationwide consequences, like secession. Hell, most democracies wouldn’t have given Scotland the first referendum, let alone another.
Go fucking touch grass.
Personally I for one want East Anglia to leave the UK and regain its own Kingdom as it were in the 6th century but sadly I feel its never going to happen. After all not like anyone in London cares about the East of England is it?
But seriously, correct choice for the Supreme Court to make even if all it does is act as a win for the SNP’s ‘litteraly everyone is against us!’ agenda
I think the Scots have the right to self determination. So should the English. I want English independence!
This was the expected outcome. From everyone, including the SNP.
They’d be stupid to push through a referendum in Oct 23, and they know that. It would fail and the issue would be stone dead for generations.
This result allows them to keep good on their election promises of pursuing a referendum, pass the blame for not fulfilling it to the UK government, and then ride into the next election on a platform of “they’ve denied your democracy” to combat a potential rising tide of a resurgent Scottish Labour as the only real possibility that can knock them off
Kicking the can down to road while they wait for polls to improve, but forcing the Supreme Court to do the kicking, is a good move. We’ll see if it pays off for them.
Am I being a dope when I think this kind of plays into the hands for Scottish independence?
26 comments
Did the SNP really try and compare Scotland to Kosovo??
This was never going to go any other way – I don’t think it was ever truly up for debate. The legal position is pretty clear
Summary:
* Unanimous verdict
* Ruled that as it impacts the Union that it is a reserved matter
* Rules that because Scotland isn’t under occupation or under a colonial oppression that some of the arguments put forward by the Scottish Government don’t apply
Yeah this isn’t a surprise ruling, it’s the right decision
[*Reference by the Lord Advocate of devolution issues*](https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2022-0098-judgment.pdf) [2022] UKSC 31.
[Press summary](https://www.supremecourt.uk/press-summary/uksc-2022-0098.html) – very short.
[Further information.](https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2022-0098.html)
In short:
* The reference is permissible and the Court agrees to hear it.
* The proposed referendum bill has more than a loose or consequential connection with the Union; it therefore relates to a reserved matter within the meaning of the Scotland Act and so is outside the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.
Is anyone surprised at this? If they decided it was competent to make a decision then no was always going to be the answer.
Disgraceful from the SNP to compare themselves to Kosovo.
Well,
I’m sure that will put this argument to bed once and for all, with all parties accepting this ruling with good grace.
Where does the SNP turn to now?
I think they may have overplayed their hand this time.
They have traditionally stood by the position that they were opposed to unilateral secession. Because of this court ruling, they either have to backtrack on that position, or abandon Scottish independence for the next few years.
This also makes things more complicated even than that, if they decide to go for unilateral secession, as that means re-entering the EU would be made difficult. While most EU nations would welcome Scotland easily if it became independent through a bilateral agreement with Westminster, unilateral declarations of secession… oof.
That opens a Pandora’s Box for certain EU countries.
No surprise at all.
It’s the same as the Catalan independence vote, it has to be done constitutionally and Scotland doesn’t have the constitutional powers to do this. It willingly entered the 1707 Act of Union, if they wanted to be able to have a vote then provision could have been made – like the differences in legal system.
“Voluntary Union of Equals”…weird that it doesn’t include the choice to leave. You’d think if it was a voluntary Union of Equals, any member would have the right to leave.
Wasn’t going to go any other way.
However, There’s an valid argument now that all this ruling does is shows the Scottish people that they do not have the power to decide their destiny – its London. As if they needed any more reminders.
Sturgeon has her next GE slogan there.
Being “tough on Scots” and presumably “tough on the causes of Scots” is a vote winner in England. Especially now that they have taken back control from the EU and have fewer foreigners to blame for their ills the buck will be passed to the Scots and the Irish.
This is only going to get worse, every party except the SNP openly states they will ignore Scotland or refuse to work with the elected representatives of Scotland. Where does that leave us if you won’t talk or work with us, won’t allow us to out on our own and won’t even allow us the option of discussing it.
Great, so we are stuck with the corrupt idiots in Westminster with a party didn’t vote for, led by a PM we didn’t vote for, as we continue to feel the effects of a Brexit that we didn’t vote for.
The problem with Sturgeon which the UK government will continue to hammer her and those that were also part of indyref1 was that they acted in bad faith. They sold this referendum as a once in a generation vote, yet when the majority of Scottish people voiced their wish to be part of the UK, the SNP just waited a year before starting off again for another vote. I believe the SNP would have used any reason they can think of to justify another referendum. I’m just surprised the people of Scotland continue to vote for the SNP considering that’s all she and her predecessor Alex Salmond cared about.
In my opinion Sturgeon knew this all along, I mean any political leader worth there salt would of known unless they’re a Tory.
All she has done is waste time and money with this to cause more chaos and disorder to distract from the main issues in Scotland. If the Torys weren’t so much of a shit show to mask over her shit show of leader she’d be gone and she should go after this.
Win win for sturgeon gets to keep campaigning for Scottish independence without the consequences of actual having one and also gets to blame Westminster for it all.
You’ve got a country that keeps voting for a party whose main thing is leaving the union. What are the Scottish people to do since there is no legal recourse left to them to express their desires?
I do love all the people acting as if this is some big loss for the SNP… this was always going to be the outcome of the Supreme Court, and if people on Reddit could predict that then I’m pretty sure so did Sturgeon.
Will be interesting where it goes next. If people think this will make the Scots go “oh that’s alright then, at least we tried” then I think they’re seriously naive.
The Better Together campaign in 2014:
# What is process for removing our EU citizenship? Voting yes. #scotdecides
https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584
I’ve yet to see any argument that Scottish independence isn’t just Brexit 2
All these bleeding heart revolutionaries saying that they no longer live in a democracy and they’ll have to ‘find other ways’.
Mate. The SNP doesn’t even know what it’s going to do if Scotland votes to leave anyway. They have basically no plan, even almost a decade later. And the promises they have made are overwhelmingly lies. This is a party that straight up makes shit up whenever. They know their diehard fans don’t care.
Also most of the democracies in the world don’t let a minority make decisions with nationwide consequences, like secession. Hell, most democracies wouldn’t have given Scotland the first referendum, let alone another.
Go fucking touch grass.
Personally I for one want East Anglia to leave the UK and regain its own Kingdom as it were in the 6th century but sadly I feel its never going to happen. After all not like anyone in London cares about the East of England is it?
But seriously, correct choice for the Supreme Court to make even if all it does is act as a win for the SNP’s ‘litteraly everyone is against us!’ agenda
I think the Scots have the right to self determination. So should the English. I want English independence!
This was the expected outcome. From everyone, including the SNP.
They’d be stupid to push through a referendum in Oct 23, and they know that. It would fail and the issue would be stone dead for generations.
This result allows them to keep good on their election promises of pursuing a referendum, pass the blame for not fulfilling it to the UK government, and then ride into the next election on a platform of “they’ve denied your democracy” to combat a potential rising tide of a resurgent Scottish Labour as the only real possibility that can knock them off
Kicking the can down to road while they wait for polls to improve, but forcing the Supreme Court to do the kicking, is a good move. We’ll see if it pays off for them.
Am I being a dope when I think this kind of plays into the hands for Scottish independence?