> “… a quarter of smaller private landlords want to sell up in the next five years, because they are not making enough money from rental income.”
How much higher the rent has to go for them to be happy, JFC?
You see people refer to Small Landlords.
What is the threshold of properties rented when you transition from Small Landlord to Large Landlord?
Tbh this is just inevitable and not all down to gov policy these people were always going to cash in upon retirement. The issue is there are no other rental properties coming onstream. When was the last time you heard of an ordinary person getting a btl mortgage and becoming a landlord?
This country is fùcked the government in waiting is no better, instead of trying to compromise and calm the situation they want to introduce measures that mean when LLs sell there won’t be more homelessness. That means controls on selling with vacant possession. That affects the value of the property. Any LL thinking of selling is now selling before that happens.
“More landlords are going to sell in the coming period. The Government urgently need to put a plan in place to ensure that as landlords exit, it doesn’t result in greater numbers of people becoming homeless,” said Mr Ó Broin. ”
What about rolling back some of the regulation improving the tax situation. Encouraging energy upgrades and renovations.
How many Airbnb properties have been added in those 5 years ?
Got the jobs but ain’t got the accommodation.
I wonder how long it will take before some companies look else where to set up shop.
My estate was completed just before the Tiger crashed. Lots of property remained in negative equity until recently. Many of them have been sold this year, obviously rented out and now not available to that market. Five flats on my street alone, lots of 2 and 3 bed terraces/semis, too. For many accidental landlords, those places are an albatross around their neck, I don’t blame them for freeing themselves as soon as it became feasible. The government should have been factoring this in, but don’t appear to have.
Watch the landlords paint this as them selling because taxes are too high or they can’t make money from renting….lol
Isn’t it amazing the landlords could make enough money that they didn’t need to sell 5 years ago when rents were much lower and when property prices were probably 30% lower than they are now?
Do they realise how stupid it makes them look…”I am selling at peak prices and peak rents because I can’t make money yet I didn’t sell 5+ years ago when both of those were much lower than they are now despite my mortgage costs not changing over that time”
And why are landlords constantly telling us they can’t make money? Just sell! If I sell cars and I’m not making money from them, I just stop selling cars! I don’t go around complaining all the time that I can’t make money selling cars. Go take your profits and invest somewhere else if it’s easier to make money elsewhere.
Rental market shrinks by 43k in 5 years?
Great, so 43k houses were sold. Super news.
In before gobshites come in telling me when houses are sold they house fewer people. Does that mean the landlords housing 8 in a room are heros?
Another absolutely demented thread. Can the “fuck landlords” crowd not see this drop in supply is an absolute *catastrophe* for the rental market?
​
The discourse here is basically now:
“HEY LANDLORD YOU’RE SCUM FUCK YOU I HATE YOU GO DIE”
“Oh yeah btw plz rent me your property on the cheap thanks I need it”
Didn’t a lot of economists say this would happen when rental caps were introduced?
I wonder what those properties are doing now – currently lived in by people who purchase in the last few years, being rented out, given over to social housing or turned into an airbnb/shortterm accomodation. Either way it appears there is pressure on the rental sector because there isn;t enough housing stock. BUILD MORE ACCOMODATION!
It’s a disaster. I have my eviction notice but there is nowhere to go. I m left with no choice but to fight my landlord through all legal means.
I can drag this out for months. Really i d prefer not to have the hassle but i have a child to think about and need to keep a roof over his head.
I predict a riot.
Populace: The rent is too high, we want rent controls
Government: We’ll give you rent controls (max 4% increase per year)
Landlords: Leave the rental market in a stampede
Rental Supply: Drops to frighteningly low levels
Populace: Surprised Pikachu face 😱
Government: I know, lets do more rent control (max 2% increase per year, when inflation is at 10%)
Landlords: Sell all rentals in a crazed frenzy
Rental Supply: Continues to drop like a stone, down 70% in 6 years
Populace: Why are there no properties to rent??
Can someone (Preferable an actual landlord and not a disgruntled renter) explain this one to me:
*”The figures come as an unpublished draft survey by the RTB, seen by Independent.ie, reveals how a quarter of smaller private landlords want to sell up in the next five years, because they are not making enough money from rental income.”*
If rent is at all time high, how are they not making enough money now?
I hear this line a lot, but are rental incomes not at an all time high?
Is there crazy taxes or liabilities or something?
“Cash in” is incredibly unfair on all the accidental landlords just recently out of the red from the 2008 crash. Too many headlines written with the default assumption that landlords are evil.
But reddit said landlords=bad? But less rental properties=bad? Reddit was hardly talking through it’s arse was it?
Just got mine, me and the wife here 3 years he said if I didn’t pay over the 3.7% he could only put it up he’s selling and wants is out April. But now I agreed to pay 9% more so he would see more profit and keep me until September next year before my “official notice will be”. Cunts
And like what a fucking cunt. Don’t give a fuck about rent pressure zones nor caps. Just if you don’t pay I’m selling. RTB are useless.
I can’t wait to continue not regulating landlords and property investors, while also not building new homes. God forbid someone interfere with the bottom line of most of our TDs and their leash holders.
Honestly anybody at this stage left supporting the government is either pulling the ladder up after themselves, or completely delusional.
Friends of ours had a flat that they rented. It was her first home that she bought before they met and married about 5 years ago. They moved into the house he had but didn’t sell the apartment because it was in negative equity. So for the past 5 years (maybe a year or two with it as they were living together before getting married) they have been renting the apartment.
They closed on the sale of it last month. They are utterly relieved for a number of reasons.
Tenants were a nightmare. They would get calls from the tenants at all times of the day and night complaining about something going wrong. Everything from the hoover was broken to the neighbours dog barking. The tenants were like children who couldn’t do anything for themselves.
The RTB were useless. They were fully registered but when one tenant just stopped paying rent the RTB could do nothing to help and if anything seemed to do everything possible to help the tenant avoid paying for the last six months of the tenancy agreement.
That same tenant left with considerable damage done and items stolen. He even left the ice cube trays full of urine in the freezer.
One set of tenants liked parties at weekends. The neighbours, residents association and building management would phone my friends at 2am to complain about a party in the apartment.
Finally the eviction ban and the prospect of Sinn Fein coming into power and stripping them of their few remaining rights as the property owner convinced them to sell. They got the last tenant (mister frozen urine) out in the summer just before the ban. Spent a few thousand fixing the place and making it presentable and sold it last month.
THAT is the reality facing most accidental landlords. That is why 43,000 of them have got out of the sector.
“cash in” is a stretch – sure they’re getting high prices as the markets are short of properties for sales but honestly when I was looking to buy 80% of every house I went to was ex-rental that some small one time landlord was looking to shift as they couldn’t deal with the shite anymore/madness of the rental market and people desperate for rentals.
Recent events painted every landlord as an absolute vile monster…. and so they’re all getting the fudge out before they can’t blasted even more.
Landlord I know was charged just under 3k on 8.5k rental income this year. That’s after a lot of work in 2021 getting everything ready for the tenants to be accepted for HAP (which they got)
I can guarantee you the big landlords don’t pay close to that in tax so ye small landlords are going to sell up especially if they have a mortgage as they just keep going up and up
SF have played a masterstroke on this, the worse it gets the better they look. Meanwhile they are pushing the government to interfere with the private market causing more and more private supply to evaporate.
So much debate in this thread around things that are actually so simple.
People are people. People are going to do what is in THEIR best interests. That is fact. You can’t change it. You can’t vote it away. You can’t whine it out of people. Accept it.
Landlords are not to blame. They are not ‘bad’ people. They won’t sacrifice their financial situation to suit you, just as you would not do to suit them. Would you pay more rent if your landlord was behind on their mortgage? Obviously you wouldn’t, so don’t ask the same of them.
If you were in the landlords situation, you would very likely behave in exactly the same way. You are not different or better or more moral than they are. You’re just in different circumstances.
Now, knowing all that. The system has to be designed to encourage or force people to do things they might not otherwise do.
This is where the government has failed spectacularly. There should be a landlord tax credit, why are they paying 52% tax when institutional landlord are not. It should be easy to evict tenants, not take years. If you stop paying, you get the boot. That’s it. There should obviously be protections for tenants, like first rights, deposit protections and rules regarding treatment by the landlord.
These things are not mutually exclusive. Hating on a group of people because their interests don’t align with yours is not the solution.
27 comments
Cash in? More like hounded out!
[deleted]
> “… a quarter of smaller private landlords want to sell up in the next five years, because they are not making enough money from rental income.”
How much higher the rent has to go for them to be happy, JFC?
You see people refer to Small Landlords.
What is the threshold of properties rented when you transition from Small Landlord to Large Landlord?
Tbh this is just inevitable and not all down to gov policy these people were always going to cash in upon retirement. The issue is there are no other rental properties coming onstream. When was the last time you heard of an ordinary person getting a btl mortgage and becoming a landlord?
This country is fùcked the government in waiting is no better, instead of trying to compromise and calm the situation they want to introduce measures that mean when LLs sell there won’t be more homelessness. That means controls on selling with vacant possession. That affects the value of the property. Any LL thinking of selling is now selling before that happens.
“More landlords are going to sell in the coming period. The Government urgently need to put a plan in place to ensure that as landlords exit, it doesn’t result in greater numbers of people becoming homeless,” said Mr Ó Broin. ”
What about rolling back some of the regulation improving the tax situation. Encouraging energy upgrades and renovations.
How many Airbnb properties have been added in those 5 years ?
Got the jobs but ain’t got the accommodation.
I wonder how long it will take before some companies look else where to set up shop.
My estate was completed just before the Tiger crashed. Lots of property remained in negative equity until recently. Many of them have been sold this year, obviously rented out and now not available to that market. Five flats on my street alone, lots of 2 and 3 bed terraces/semis, too. For many accidental landlords, those places are an albatross around their neck, I don’t blame them for freeing themselves as soon as it became feasible. The government should have been factoring this in, but don’t appear to have.
Watch the landlords paint this as them selling because taxes are too high or they can’t make money from renting….lol
Isn’t it amazing the landlords could make enough money that they didn’t need to sell 5 years ago when rents were much lower and when property prices were probably 30% lower than they are now?
Do they realise how stupid it makes them look…”I am selling at peak prices and peak rents because I can’t make money yet I didn’t sell 5+ years ago when both of those were much lower than they are now despite my mortgage costs not changing over that time”
And why are landlords constantly telling us they can’t make money? Just sell! If I sell cars and I’m not making money from them, I just stop selling cars! I don’t go around complaining all the time that I can’t make money selling cars. Go take your profits and invest somewhere else if it’s easier to make money elsewhere.
Rental market shrinks by 43k in 5 years?
Great, so 43k houses were sold. Super news.
In before gobshites come in telling me when houses are sold they house fewer people. Does that mean the landlords housing 8 in a room are heros?
Another absolutely demented thread. Can the “fuck landlords” crowd not see this drop in supply is an absolute *catastrophe* for the rental market?
​
The discourse here is basically now:
“HEY LANDLORD YOU’RE SCUM FUCK YOU I HATE YOU GO DIE”
“Oh yeah btw plz rent me your property on the cheap thanks I need it”
Didn’t a lot of economists say this would happen when rental caps were introduced?
I wonder what those properties are doing now – currently lived in by people who purchase in the last few years, being rented out, given over to social housing or turned into an airbnb/shortterm accomodation. Either way it appears there is pressure on the rental sector because there isn;t enough housing stock. BUILD MORE ACCOMODATION!
It’s a disaster. I have my eviction notice but there is nowhere to go. I m left with no choice but to fight my landlord through all legal means.
I can drag this out for months. Really i d prefer not to have the hassle but i have a child to think about and need to keep a roof over his head.
I predict a riot.
Populace: The rent is too high, we want rent controls
Government: We’ll give you rent controls (max 4% increase per year)
Landlords: Leave the rental market in a stampede
Rental Supply: Drops to frighteningly low levels
Populace: Surprised Pikachu face 😱
Government: I know, lets do more rent control (max 2% increase per year, when inflation is at 10%)
Landlords: Sell all rentals in a crazed frenzy
Rental Supply: Continues to drop like a stone, down 70% in 6 years
Populace: Why are there no properties to rent??
Can someone (Preferable an actual landlord and not a disgruntled renter) explain this one to me:
*”The figures come as an unpublished draft survey by the RTB, seen by Independent.ie, reveals how a quarter of smaller private landlords want to sell up in the next five years, because they are not making enough money from rental income.”*
If rent is at all time high, how are they not making enough money now?
I hear this line a lot, but are rental incomes not at an all time high?
Is there crazy taxes or liabilities or something?
“Cash in” is incredibly unfair on all the accidental landlords just recently out of the red from the 2008 crash. Too many headlines written with the default assumption that landlords are evil.
But reddit said landlords=bad? But less rental properties=bad? Reddit was hardly talking through it’s arse was it?
I suggested reducing PAYE for small landlords back in [January of 2020](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/evc7i6/unpopular_but_its_true_the_housing_crisis_is/) and this subreddit went apeshit lol. Most of yas deserve to live in yer ma’s boxroom because yas are thick as shite.
Just got mine, me and the wife here 3 years he said if I didn’t pay over the 3.7% he could only put it up he’s selling and wants is out April. But now I agreed to pay 9% more so he would see more profit and keep me until September next year before my “official notice will be”. Cunts
And like what a fucking cunt. Don’t give a fuck about rent pressure zones nor caps. Just if you don’t pay I’m selling. RTB are useless.
I can’t wait to continue not regulating landlords and property investors, while also not building new homes. God forbid someone interfere with the bottom line of most of our TDs and their leash holders.
Honestly anybody at this stage left supporting the government is either pulling the ladder up after themselves, or completely delusional.
Friends of ours had a flat that they rented. It was her first home that she bought before they met and married about 5 years ago. They moved into the house he had but didn’t sell the apartment because it was in negative equity. So for the past 5 years (maybe a year or two with it as they were living together before getting married) they have been renting the apartment.
They closed on the sale of it last month. They are utterly relieved for a number of reasons.
Tenants were a nightmare. They would get calls from the tenants at all times of the day and night complaining about something going wrong. Everything from the hoover was broken to the neighbours dog barking. The tenants were like children who couldn’t do anything for themselves.
The RTB were useless. They were fully registered but when one tenant just stopped paying rent the RTB could do nothing to help and if anything seemed to do everything possible to help the tenant avoid paying for the last six months of the tenancy agreement.
That same tenant left with considerable damage done and items stolen. He even left the ice cube trays full of urine in the freezer.
One set of tenants liked parties at weekends. The neighbours, residents association and building management would phone my friends at 2am to complain about a party in the apartment.
Finally the eviction ban and the prospect of Sinn Fein coming into power and stripping them of their few remaining rights as the property owner convinced them to sell. They got the last tenant (mister frozen urine) out in the summer just before the ban. Spent a few thousand fixing the place and making it presentable and sold it last month.
THAT is the reality facing most accidental landlords. That is why 43,000 of them have got out of the sector.
“cash in” is a stretch – sure they’re getting high prices as the markets are short of properties for sales but honestly when I was looking to buy 80% of every house I went to was ex-rental that some small one time landlord was looking to shift as they couldn’t deal with the shite anymore/madness of the rental market and people desperate for rentals.
Recent events painted every landlord as an absolute vile monster…. and so they’re all getting the fudge out before they can’t blasted even more.
Landlord I know was charged just under 3k on 8.5k rental income this year. That’s after a lot of work in 2021 getting everything ready for the tenants to be accepted for HAP (which they got)
I can guarantee you the big landlords don’t pay close to that in tax so ye small landlords are going to sell up especially if they have a mortgage as they just keep going up and up
SF have played a masterstroke on this, the worse it gets the better they look. Meanwhile they are pushing the government to interfere with the private market causing more and more private supply to evaporate.
So much debate in this thread around things that are actually so simple.
People are people. People are going to do what is in THEIR best interests. That is fact. You can’t change it. You can’t vote it away. You can’t whine it out of people. Accept it.
Landlords are not to blame. They are not ‘bad’ people. They won’t sacrifice their financial situation to suit you, just as you would not do to suit them. Would you pay more rent if your landlord was behind on their mortgage? Obviously you wouldn’t, so don’t ask the same of them.
If you were in the landlords situation, you would very likely behave in exactly the same way. You are not different or better or more moral than they are. You’re just in different circumstances.
Now, knowing all that. The system has to be designed to encourage or force people to do things they might not otherwise do.
This is where the government has failed spectacularly. There should be a landlord tax credit, why are they paying 52% tax when institutional landlord are not. It should be easy to evict tenants, not take years. If you stop paying, you get the boot. That’s it. There should obviously be protections for tenants, like first rights, deposit protections and rules regarding treatment by the landlord.
These things are not mutually exclusive. Hating on a group of people because their interests don’t align with yours is not the solution.
And of course. Build. Build. Build.