I do think that she should be brought back. She may be a shit but she is _our_ shit. Born here, and raised here. The nominal Bangladesh link is a nonsense and goes against long-standing law that you can’t render someone stateless by removing citizenship. She should be brought back and tried rather than letting the rest of the world pick up after our mess, even if that results in costs for imprisonment or surveillance.
Bring her back and convict her for whatever charges she may be guilty of. She was born here and raised here and was still a child when she left. I have no doubt she was groomed but she is also responsible for her own actions let her come back and face punishment here for those actions rather than just pretending like she doesnt exist.
Hard for me to find any empathy for an individual who lacked any seeing the victims of ISIL.
CHILD VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING! She was trafficked, forced to marry and all her babies died. There’s just an attitude that she chose this. Who the fuck chooses to be sex trafficked? There’s so much racism in peoples attitudes here. She was groomed and didn’t understand what the implications were as they’ll tell you anything to get you to do what they want. Where was her protection? We need to stop blaming her and looking deeper.
This is quite a difficult case, I mean its now known that she was groomed on the internet, and that she was 15, but I don’t think that means she is entirely blameless for everything that happened afterwards, a lot of young people who commit crime are ‘groomed’ into doing it by older people, particularly anything gang related, but we do not excuse them from the crimes they commit later in life.
I think she needs jail time & post jail monitoring but with some long term deprogramming its possible she could become an asset to our counter terrorism / grooming unit.
Edit: on reflection I think ‘known’ is probably the wrong word, I think heavily suspected or believed would be more appropriate.
What’s in the country’s best interest, ignoring her and letting her deal with her consequences or bringing her back at vast costs to the tax payer with lengthy court cases and appeals that will go on forever?
The most distressing thing about this whole case is the message it sent to British people who are recently descended from immigrants. They might have been born here, raised here, lived their whole lives here but now they know that the government has never seen them as truly British and equal to white Brits, and that their citizenship can be taken away with no recourse or anything they can do to stop it.
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LMAO at this attempt to shift to her being a poor victim of events rather than a willing participant.
My husband is from the Middle East so I read the responses with curiosity.
My husband says mentality wise, bringing her back would encourage young people (who get indoctrinated into radical ‘holy war’ Islam in their UK homes) to conduct celebratory terrorist attacks in the UK, as well as travel to their origin countries and form new terrorist organisations since the precedent of bringing them back would be established.
My husband says in a hush-hush way generally speaking Muslims radicalise each other as a culture. He tells me, for example, they don’t truly mourn the Manchester attack victims because in their heads ‘in was all written’ by God as their fate. The attackers go straight into ‘paradise’ too.
I don’t think the calming pro-Islam propaganda is wise. In fact, I think the West should thread **very** carefully.
This issue; Is she a threat to national security?
Unequivocally, yes.
Young people would see this as proof that they can hook up with any dangerous ideology and support mass murder and the most heinous crimes with no personal accountability.
This whole situation is fascinating to me, mainly because so many people and journalists like to simplify a really complex and scary reality.
No sane person would willingly go to a murderous terrorist regime. Yet the media likes to portray it like that was the case. There was undoubtedly a seed of radicalisation in there, now we know it apparently started online. But I think whats more important is that we understand and see what was said and learn how to prevent it from happening again rather than just saying “oh she went of her own accord” or “oh they convinced her to go and its all on them”.
The exchange went both ways and someone, who was likely previously a innocent enough young girl was convinced to travel across the world to join a terrorist regime, and from there fuck knows what kind of ideas and manipulation she’s been subject to. We know she raised a fighters child and the children sadly passed away. We know she’s been critical of the UK.
Shes not innocent, not anymore, and she’s likely a risk to national security even with the regime gone and she should likely face some kind of trial here. But its insane to me that people think there wasn’t some kind of inciting incident here. If she was trafficked for sexual purposes, how the hell did that happen.
I don’t think using sexual trafficking is a scapegoat here either, there has to be a reason she went, and I doubt she was just of her own belief that terrorist = good. Then again, it could be as simple as that at the end of the day.
The whole case is insane
If the excuse is “She was 15 when she was groomed!” I have to say she was an exceptionally fucking dumb 15 year old. I stopped being manipulated online at age 9 when I got scammed out of a set of armour in Runescape.
That’s not really what the CCTV cameras showed, is it?
She knew what she was doing, don’t let her back in.
Fuck her we’re sending a message not just to her but for other people thinking joining isis or other terrorist organisations are a great idea and when your side you’ve picked is losing you think you can just come back.
To anyone who supports her your a fucking idiot and are so out of touch with reality.
She wasn’t trafficked, she went of her own free will, there’s literally video of her with her friends going through the airport alone.
She’d do and say anything to get her citizenship back so she can get a slap on the wrist and go on about her life here
She chose, (and proably still preaches) that religious extremist life and now she’s trying for sympathy? Sod off. Interestingly the ex trafficing accussation didn’t exist until recently so it’s likely just a sympathy ploy that unfortunately some commenters are falling for.
Fuck shamima. She can stay where she decided to go.
Terrorists and terrorist supporters should be stripped of citizenship no matter the race
Looking at the comments there’s a lot of “imagine if she was a young white girl”. Sorry, thats that’s just horsebeard. This isn’t about the colour of a girl – its about a girl who is old enough to know better leaving to join a terrorist organisation. Should we apply the same rule to young white men who joined the IRA too or are they too white and male to be naive?! It’s horrid, I agree, but she knew it was wrong – she didn’t expect the result is all. I hate that she may be getting trafficked too (that’s genuinely awful) but she joined a group of known murderers – they’re probably weren’t going to be nice people!
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
She went of her own volition, along with a number of her friends.
Trafficked my arse. Let the bitch rot.
I thought the government had already reviewed her case and found out she is still an on-going danger to the country? What they said they know about her they remained pretty tight lipped on tho.
So I can’t have an opinion here that she doesn’t deserve to come back regardless of what colour she is ? Fucking traitor. Groomed is just about the only angle the defence lawyers had left after 8 fucking years of trying everything else. Who’s paying for her defence and how much has it cost now ? It was reportedly 30k in 2020.
She only “regrets” what she did when her side lost, fuck her.
Allowing her to return will set a precedent and show people they can join terrorist organisations with 0 consequences. It’s sad that it happened to a teenage girl but ISIS has videos of beheading on Facebook so they’re not exactly hiding their true intentions. All these western girls who join it only to go full shocked Pikachu when they find out it’s hell were okay with others being beheaded and enslaved, they just didn’t think it will happen to them.
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Im not sure how I feel about this, she is my age and when I was 16 I wanted to run away with people who lived off the grid. My mother, being the saint she is, took me a 16 year old little shit to a peace camp to see what it was all about. After 4 days of washing in a bucket and smoking weed with some very lovely people, I came home and continued to study, get a job and live on grid. I was lucky enough that it took me 4 days to realise the grass isn’t always greener where you think it is at 16 years old.
Fucked around and found out.
Join ISIS and you’re too high risk to ever let back in the country.
I mean it’s more complex than that. Trafficked people generally don’t agree to go or don’t know what’s going to happen to them when they get somewhere. She knew what isis was doing, watched footage of beheadings and agreed she wanted to be a part of it. Then isis lost ground and she was displaced into these camps where many people there are still very radicalised. She even said after in the camp she didn’t think those things were wrong and were justified.
Is she an innocent victim? No. Should we have terminated her citizenship? No. There’s no easy answer here. She’s very radicalised and de radicalising is difficult and takes lots of time and resources that I doubt we have set up here and so she poses a massive danger to the public and shouldn’t be wandering free. She needs to be sentenced for it. Will she actually receive any punishment if we bring her back? Also probably no which brings us back to the point that she’s dangerous and will be walking amongst us if she returns.
I’m sure this thread will be full of level-headed, constructive discussion
30 comments
I do think that she should be brought back. She may be a shit but she is _our_ shit. Born here, and raised here. The nominal Bangladesh link is a nonsense and goes against long-standing law that you can’t render someone stateless by removing citizenship. She should be brought back and tried rather than letting the rest of the world pick up after our mess, even if that results in costs for imprisonment or surveillance.
Bring her back and convict her for whatever charges she may be guilty of. She was born here and raised here and was still a child when she left. I have no doubt she was groomed but she is also responsible for her own actions let her come back and face punishment here for those actions rather than just pretending like she doesnt exist.
Hard for me to find any empathy for an individual who lacked any seeing the victims of ISIL.
CHILD VICTIM OF SEX TRAFFICKING! She was trafficked, forced to marry and all her babies died. There’s just an attitude that she chose this. Who the fuck chooses to be sex trafficked? There’s so much racism in peoples attitudes here. She was groomed and didn’t understand what the implications were as they’ll tell you anything to get you to do what they want. Where was her protection? We need to stop blaming her and looking deeper.
This is quite a difficult case, I mean its now known that she was groomed on the internet, and that she was 15, but I don’t think that means she is entirely blameless for everything that happened afterwards, a lot of young people who commit crime are ‘groomed’ into doing it by older people, particularly anything gang related, but we do not excuse them from the crimes they commit later in life.
I think she needs jail time & post jail monitoring but with some long term deprogramming its possible she could become an asset to our counter terrorism / grooming unit.
Edit: on reflection I think ‘known’ is probably the wrong word, I think heavily suspected or believed would be more appropriate.
What’s in the country’s best interest, ignoring her and letting her deal with her consequences or bringing her back at vast costs to the tax payer with lengthy court cases and appeals that will go on forever?
The most distressing thing about this whole case is the message it sent to British people who are recently descended from immigrants. They might have been born here, raised here, lived their whole lives here but now they know that the government has never seen them as truly British and equal to white Brits, and that their citizenship can be taken away with no recourse or anything they can do to stop it.
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LMAO at this attempt to shift to her being a poor victim of events rather than a willing participant.
My husband is from the Middle East so I read the responses with curiosity.
My husband says mentality wise, bringing her back would encourage young people (who get indoctrinated into radical ‘holy war’ Islam in their UK homes) to conduct celebratory terrorist attacks in the UK, as well as travel to their origin countries and form new terrorist organisations since the precedent of bringing them back would be established.
My husband says in a hush-hush way generally speaking Muslims radicalise each other as a culture. He tells me, for example, they don’t truly mourn the Manchester attack victims because in their heads ‘in was all written’ by God as their fate. The attackers go straight into ‘paradise’ too.
I don’t think the calming pro-Islam propaganda is wise. In fact, I think the West should thread **very** carefully.
This issue; Is she a threat to national security?
Unequivocally, yes.
Young people would see this as proof that they can hook up with any dangerous ideology and support mass murder and the most heinous crimes with no personal accountability.
This whole situation is fascinating to me, mainly because so many people and journalists like to simplify a really complex and scary reality.
No sane person would willingly go to a murderous terrorist regime. Yet the media likes to portray it like that was the case. There was undoubtedly a seed of radicalisation in there, now we know it apparently started online. But I think whats more important is that we understand and see what was said and learn how to prevent it from happening again rather than just saying “oh she went of her own accord” or “oh they convinced her to go and its all on them”.
The exchange went both ways and someone, who was likely previously a innocent enough young girl was convinced to travel across the world to join a terrorist regime, and from there fuck knows what kind of ideas and manipulation she’s been subject to. We know she raised a fighters child and the children sadly passed away. We know she’s been critical of the UK.
Shes not innocent, not anymore, and she’s likely a risk to national security even with the regime gone and she should likely face some kind of trial here. But its insane to me that people think there wasn’t some kind of inciting incident here. If she was trafficked for sexual purposes, how the hell did that happen.
I don’t think using sexual trafficking is a scapegoat here either, there has to be a reason she went, and I doubt she was just of her own belief that terrorist = good. Then again, it could be as simple as that at the end of the day.
The whole case is insane
If the excuse is “She was 15 when she was groomed!” I have to say she was an exceptionally fucking dumb 15 year old. I stopped being manipulated online at age 9 when I got scammed out of a set of armour in Runescape.
That’s not really what the CCTV cameras showed, is it?
She knew what she was doing, don’t let her back in.
Fuck her we’re sending a message not just to her but for other people thinking joining isis or other terrorist organisations are a great idea and when your side you’ve picked is losing you think you can just come back.
To anyone who supports her your a fucking idiot and are so out of touch with reality.
She wasn’t trafficked, she went of her own free will, there’s literally video of her with her friends going through the airport alone.
She’d do and say anything to get her citizenship back so she can get a slap on the wrist and go on about her life here
She chose, (and proably still preaches) that religious extremist life and now she’s trying for sympathy? Sod off. Interestingly the ex trafficing accussation didn’t exist until recently so it’s likely just a sympathy ploy that unfortunately some commenters are falling for.
[https://reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/rip996/cmv_shamima_begum_should_be_repatriated_to_the_uk/](https://reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/rip996/cmv_shamima_begum_should_be_repatriated_to_the_uk/)
Fuck shamima. She can stay where she decided to go.
Terrorists and terrorist supporters should be stripped of citizenship no matter the race
Looking at the comments there’s a lot of “imagine if she was a young white girl”. Sorry, thats that’s just horsebeard. This isn’t about the colour of a girl – its about a girl who is old enough to know better leaving to join a terrorist organisation. Should we apply the same rule to young white men who joined the IRA too or are they too white and male to be naive?! It’s horrid, I agree, but she knew it was wrong – she didn’t expect the result is all. I hate that she may be getting trafficked too (that’s genuinely awful) but she joined a group of known murderers – they’re probably weren’t going to be nice people!
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
She went of her own volition, along with a number of her friends.
Trafficked my arse. Let the bitch rot.
I thought the government had already reviewed her case and found out she is still an on-going danger to the country? What they said they know about her they remained pretty tight lipped on tho.
So I can’t have an opinion here that she doesn’t deserve to come back regardless of what colour she is ? Fucking traitor. Groomed is just about the only angle the defence lawyers had left after 8 fucking years of trying everything else. Who’s paying for her defence and how much has it cost now ? It was reportedly 30k in 2020.
She only “regrets” what she did when her side lost, fuck her.
Allowing her to return will set a precedent and show people they can join terrorist organisations with 0 consequences. It’s sad that it happened to a teenage girl but ISIS has videos of beheading on Facebook so they’re not exactly hiding their true intentions. All these western girls who join it only to go full shocked Pikachu when they find out it’s hell were okay with others being beheaded and enslaved, they just didn’t think it will happen to them.
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Im not sure how I feel about this, she is my age and when I was 16 I wanted to run away with people who lived off the grid. My mother, being the saint she is, took me a 16 year old little shit to a peace camp to see what it was all about. After 4 days of washing in a bucket and smoking weed with some very lovely people, I came home and continued to study, get a job and live on grid. I was lucky enough that it took me 4 days to realise the grass isn’t always greener where you think it is at 16 years old.
Fucked around and found out.
Join ISIS and you’re too high risk to ever let back in the country.
I mean it’s more complex than that. Trafficked people generally don’t agree to go or don’t know what’s going to happen to them when they get somewhere. She knew what isis was doing, watched footage of beheadings and agreed she wanted to be a part of it. Then isis lost ground and she was displaced into these camps where many people there are still very radicalised. She even said after in the camp she didn’t think those things were wrong and were justified.
Is she an innocent victim? No. Should we have terminated her citizenship? No. There’s no easy answer here. She’s very radicalised and de radicalising is difficult and takes lots of time and resources that I doubt we have set up here and so she poses a massive danger to the public and shouldn’t be wandering free. She needs to be sentenced for it. Will she actually receive any punishment if we bring her back? Also probably no which brings us back to the point that she’s dangerous and will be walking amongst us if she returns.
I’m sure this thread will be full of level-headed, constructive discussion