I don’t care for russia’s security. Down with that warmongering shit regime and culture, regardless of cost to russia as a state.
Like a clockwork
How the HECK do French and German leaders **STILL** keep making such careless statements? Do they really not comprehend how much distrust there is for their appeasing policies on Russia??
It is unbelievable that anyone would consider any negotiations with Russia until there is a regime change. Russia needs to be punished long after the war ends and be used as an example that no country will consider invading another sovereign state ever again. There needs to be a large price to pay and they need to foot the bill for rebuilding Ukraine
And furthermore, until Russia learns to honour international law they should be removed from every international security body worldwide.
We guarantee that Russia will be absolutely fucked beyond all recognition, if they don’t fuck out of Ukraine asap. How’s that for a guarantee?
Guarantee them that if the EU just suspect that russia is just thinking to start an other fuckery, the losses of 2022 will look like a bike accident compared to what comes for them.
They have a lot of land and nukes. They don’t need security guarantees.
The whole encroachment of NATO bullshit was just an excuse for their attempt to recreate the USSR.
Macron capitulates. Again.
Wants to give guarantees to someone – your guarantees are worth nothing -no one is afraid of you.
That’s why Russia threw France out of Africa – does it look like they need your guarantees?
The only guarantee Russia needs – is a guarantee that they can continue killing people in Ukraine and nothing will happen to them.
And that’s just the beginning, after Ukraine they will want guarantees to have freedom to kill in other countries – now using resources and manpower from occupied Ukraine.
“We the countries of Europe promise to never invade your shithole country.” Now get the fuck out of Ukraine!
That is misunderstading the issue.
The west is not threatening Russia with invasion. NATO is a defense alliance.
Russia is the one that needs to issue guaranties.
A difficult task since Russia is making it clear it can not be trusted.
What is a guaranty worth from an untrustworthy entity?
It is not worth anything. “Peace for our time” said Neville Chamberlain after guaranties from Germany. It took all of 5 months before Germany broke that treaty.
Of course they need guarantees. Everyone in Poland, Finland, Sweden, the Baltics and Japan on the other side of the map is just waiting for an opportunity to conquer Moscow. It’s not like they have always been starting wars and genocides across the region. /s
In exchange for what?
Russia don’t feel obliged to follow any part of an agreement that doesn’t benefit them.
Impopular opinion here, but I believe Macron is right on this.
In the long term, Russia is not Europe’s or America’s main adversary, because it’s economically and militarily a second or third-tier power. China is the key strategic adversary for the free democratic world in this century. And in order to keep China in check in the north and in central Asia, we need to have a sufficiently strong and stable Russia, firmly embedded in a western security architecture. This can and will only succeed if Russia is confident in its security on its western flank.
But in order to get there together with Russia, Russia needs, among many things, to retreat from Ukraine, Russia needs to improve their governance in a democratic way, Russian needs to let go their imperialistic reflexes and they need to show they are good neighbours for at least a generation. This will take decades. But it has happened before with other countries. One can only hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.
Go home Mac(a)Ron, you’re drunk. France is not able to be any way an architect of peace in Europe. Their influence diminished in favor of others for decades. Luckily for Ukraine. Luckily for Baltic states and Poland. Moscow should be given guarantees of being f*cked down to medieval times.
This is why an EU army will NEVER happen, good luck ever getting eastern and Northern europe to ever join it. There’s no universe in which Poland, baltics, Romania and czechia etc will ever approve of it if this is the talking point from France which wants to lead an EU army
Russia gave guarantees to Ukraine and look what these are worth. This is not the time to make concessions.
One thing is for sure. If redditors were leaders of the world. We’d all be dead.
And how it must work? Close doors for Ukraine to NATO completely (which aren’t that open) and allow Russia to prepare for invasion more precisely?
Shut the fuck up, please, just shut the fuck up
the only thing russia needs is to get nuked fast and wide.
For sure it will be something to let Putin say “see we won even nato is no more directly threatening us” just after having been expelled from Ukraine and Ukraine joining NATO and being at least protected by it with NATO troops ready to enter the country in case of, nobody really think that negociation will be with another government, that’s why now it’s on the table even for the Ukraininan diplomacy but just if the Russian troops go back in the recognized Russia
Guarantee they never attack a neighbor again or face obliteration immediately.
> “This means that one of the essential points we must address – as President Putin has always said – is the fear that NATO comes right up to its doors, and the deployment of weapons that could threaten Russia,” Macron said.
What about the security of NATO allies bordering Russia? They need defenses within their own territory.
Why does Macaroni still think France is relevant in any of this?
Russia is unable to give any guarantees in return due to its complete loss of credibility, so why bother dreaming…
Those who can’t even uphold the security guarantees they themself signed (Budapest Memorandum, 1994) are not worth getting security guarantees from us!
and they wonder why eastern part of block would rather go with US instead of them…
to be honest it cause problems for EU as well (eastern countries in EU after such things will be like ‘ye, fuck this, France again trying to play with our security, we will rather cooperate closer with US instead of our friends FROM FUCKEN EU’).
I think that the only guarantee that ruZZia needs is that it will get its ass kicked if it ever invades another European country again. They are not worried about their security, they are worried that they are not allowed to expand their territory through military invasions.
You cannot negotiate with a country that thrive on lies and deceit like Russia.
Bullies only understand one language.
Not this guy again…
Can someone explain to me how Macaron thinks he is relevant in Russia Ukraine war?
I’m just very happy redditors aren’t in charge of these diplomatic efforts
We could build a symbolic 20m high wall with a moat on the borders from 2013 and guarantee that nothing will cross that both ways..
Oh, it will. The guarantee is that if Russia fucks around, it absolutely will find out.
I am not such a big fan of the guy, but to be honest what he said was that the subject of those guarantees should be part of the discussions and thinking when preparing the protection of NATO border countries (and UA) So I understand it as a diplomatic move in order to prevent that subjects to be a blocker for starting to discuss, and also as a pointer that we should probably favor defense capabilities vs attack in those countries (just keep the attack vectors further west) …
Hey Macron, why don’t you also bend over and spread your cheeks for Putin?
Ah shiiit here we go again.
Putin doesn’t give a flying heck about NATO coming at his doorstep. It was just a stupid excuse for his invasion. He felt fine pulling Russian troops from every corner of his gigantic country, and sending them to Ukraine, while weakening his every border. He felt fine shooting most of his rockets at Ukraine. Because he knows that as long as he has nuclear weapons, NATO can’t touch him.
NATO doesn’t threaten Russia, it only threatens Russian imperialism. Because when everyone around joins NATO, there are no more countries for Russia to invade.
Why?
UK,USA,Russia gave Ukraine security guarantees. That in exchange for removing it’s nuclear weapons it would never be invaded.
Guess which one of the three broke that deal with Ukraine?
We cannot trust Russia to keep its word, so why should we make guarantees for Russia when it won’t keep its word.
They’ll have the guarantee that they will never again be considered a world super power
How about guarantee that ruzzia will be removed if they try anything funny again
I don’t really see a rationale for Russia requiring security guarantees in excess of those that any other country in the world has. I don’t think that Russia is particularly vulnerable or particularly unable to discourage attacks on Russia.
And I don’t really see what can be obtained in return. Russia is going to have a hard time extending credible commitments of her own, because she hasn’t upheld a number of her own commitments in the recent past. How much weight is one going to place on any commitments the Kremlin — at least as things stand in 2022, under Putin — makes WRT Eastern Europe?
NATO never threatened Russia in any way. Putin only fears that countries decide for themselves that they want to leave the Russian sphere of influence and become successful. What does Macron hope to achieve here, apart from being contrarian?
French and German guarantees for the Minsk accords worked out *real* nice
46 comments
Fucking moron.
I don’t care for russia’s security. Down with that warmongering shit regime and culture, regardless of cost to russia as a state.
Like a clockwork
How the HECK do French and German leaders **STILL** keep making such careless statements? Do they really not comprehend how much distrust there is for their appeasing policies on Russia??
It is unbelievable that anyone would consider any negotiations with Russia until there is a regime change. Russia needs to be punished long after the war ends and be used as an example that no country will consider invading another sovereign state ever again. There needs to be a large price to pay and they need to foot the bill for rebuilding Ukraine
And furthermore, until Russia learns to honour international law they should be removed from every international security body worldwide.
We guarantee that Russia will be absolutely fucked beyond all recognition, if they don’t fuck out of Ukraine asap. How’s that for a guarantee?
Guarantee them that if the EU just suspect that russia is just thinking to start an other fuckery, the losses of 2022 will look like a bike accident compared to what comes for them.
They have a lot of land and nukes. They don’t need security guarantees.
The whole encroachment of NATO bullshit was just an excuse for their attempt to recreate the USSR.
Macron capitulates. Again.
Wants to give guarantees to someone – your guarantees are worth nothing -no one is afraid of you.
That’s why Russia threw France out of Africa – does it look like they need your guarantees?
The only guarantee Russia needs – is a guarantee that they can continue killing people in Ukraine and nothing will happen to them.
And that’s just the beginning, after Ukraine they will want guarantees to have freedom to kill in other countries – now using resources and manpower from occupied Ukraine.
“We the countries of Europe promise to never invade your shithole country.” Now get the fuck out of Ukraine!
That is misunderstading the issue.
The west is not threatening Russia with invasion. NATO is a defense alliance.
Russia is the one that needs to issue guaranties.
A difficult task since Russia is making it clear it can not be trusted.
What is a guaranty worth from an untrustworthy entity?
It is not worth anything. “Peace for our time” said Neville Chamberlain after guaranties from Germany. It took all of 5 months before Germany broke that treaty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time
Of course they need guarantees. Everyone in Poland, Finland, Sweden, the Baltics and Japan on the other side of the map is just waiting for an opportunity to conquer Moscow. It’s not like they have always been starting wars and genocides across the region. /s
In exchange for what?
Russia don’t feel obliged to follow any part of an agreement that doesn’t benefit them.
Impopular opinion here, but I believe Macron is right on this.
In the long term, Russia is not Europe’s or America’s main adversary, because it’s economically and militarily a second or third-tier power. China is the key strategic adversary for the free democratic world in this century. And in order to keep China in check in the north and in central Asia, we need to have a sufficiently strong and stable Russia, firmly embedded in a western security architecture. This can and will only succeed if Russia is confident in its security on its western flank.
But in order to get there together with Russia, Russia needs, among many things, to retreat from Ukraine, Russia needs to improve their governance in a democratic way, Russian needs to let go their imperialistic reflexes and they need to show they are good neighbours for at least a generation. This will take decades. But it has happened before with other countries. One can only hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.
Go home Mac(a)Ron, you’re drunk. France is not able to be any way an architect of peace in Europe. Their influence diminished in favor of others for decades. Luckily for Ukraine. Luckily for Baltic states and Poland. Moscow should be given guarantees of being f*cked down to medieval times.
This is why an EU army will NEVER happen, good luck ever getting eastern and Northern europe to ever join it. There’s no universe in which Poland, baltics, Romania and czechia etc will ever approve of it if this is the talking point from France which wants to lead an EU army
Russia gave guarantees to Ukraine and look what these are worth. This is not the time to make concessions.
One thing is for sure. If redditors were leaders of the world. We’d all be dead.
And how it must work? Close doors for Ukraine to NATO completely (which aren’t that open) and allow Russia to prepare for invasion more precisely?
Shut the fuck up, please, just shut the fuck up
the only thing russia needs is to get nuked fast and wide.
For sure it will be something to let Putin say “see we won even nato is no more directly threatening us” just after having been expelled from Ukraine and Ukraine joining NATO and being at least protected by it with NATO troops ready to enter the country in case of, nobody really think that negociation will be with another government, that’s why now it’s on the table even for the Ukraininan diplomacy but just if the Russian troops go back in the recognized Russia
Guarantee they never attack a neighbor again or face obliteration immediately.
Every country should receive guarantees. Russia attacked Ukraine because the Ukrainian government not only was banning pro Russian parties, Russian speaking media, Russian language and culture, but also Ukraina was preparing for war since 2016 (see Stoltenberg déclaration https://www.fanpage.it/esteri/la-nato-addestra-gli-ucraini-dal-2014-stoltenberg-spiega-perche-mosca-non-e-riuscita-a-prendere-kiev/); and Russia felt threatened (see Putin déclarations).
> “This means that one of the essential points we must address – as President Putin has always said – is the fear that NATO comes right up to its doors, and the deployment of weapons that could threaten Russia,” Macron said.
What about the security of NATO allies bordering Russia? They need defenses within their own territory.
Why does Macaroni still think France is relevant in any of this?
Russia is unable to give any guarantees in return due to its complete loss of credibility, so why bother dreaming…
Those who can’t even uphold the security guarantees they themself signed (Budapest Memorandum, 1994) are not worth getting security guarantees from us!
and they wonder why eastern part of block would rather go with US instead of them…
to be honest it cause problems for EU as well (eastern countries in EU after such things will be like ‘ye, fuck this, France again trying to play with our security, we will rather cooperate closer with US instead of our friends FROM FUCKEN EU’).
I think that the only guarantee that ruZZia needs is that it will get its ass kicked if it ever invades another European country again. They are not worried about their security, they are worried that they are not allowed to expand their territory through military invasions.
You cannot negotiate with a country that thrive on lies and deceit like Russia.
Bullies only understand one language.
Not this guy again…
Can someone explain to me how Macaron thinks he is relevant in Russia Ukraine war?
I’m just very happy redditors aren’t in charge of these diplomatic efforts
We could build a symbolic 20m high wall with a moat on the borders from 2013 and guarantee that nothing will cross that both ways..
Oh, it will. The guarantee is that if Russia fucks around, it absolutely will find out.
I am not such a big fan of the guy, but to be honest what he said was that the subject of those guarantees should be part of the discussions and thinking when preparing the protection of NATO border countries (and UA) So I understand it as a diplomatic move in order to prevent that subjects to be a blocker for starting to discuss, and also as a pointer that we should probably favor defense capabilities vs attack in those countries (just keep the attack vectors further west) …
Hey Macron, why don’t you also bend over and spread your cheeks for Putin?
Ah shiiit here we go again.
Putin doesn’t give a flying heck about NATO coming at his doorstep. It was just a stupid excuse for his invasion. He felt fine pulling Russian troops from every corner of his gigantic country, and sending them to Ukraine, while weakening his every border. He felt fine shooting most of his rockets at Ukraine. Because he knows that as long as he has nuclear weapons, NATO can’t touch him.
NATO doesn’t threaten Russia, it only threatens Russian imperialism. Because when everyone around joins NATO, there are no more countries for Russia to invade.
Why?
UK,USA,Russia gave Ukraine security guarantees. That in exchange for removing it’s nuclear weapons it would never be invaded.
Guess which one of the three broke that deal with Ukraine?
We cannot trust Russia to keep its word, so why should we make guarantees for Russia when it won’t keep its word.
They’ll have the guarantee that they will never again be considered a world super power
How about guarantee that ruzzia will be removed if they try anything funny again
I don’t really see a rationale for Russia requiring security guarantees in excess of those that any other country in the world has. I don’t think that Russia is particularly vulnerable or particularly unable to discourage attacks on Russia.
And I don’t really see what can be obtained in return. Russia is going to have a hard time extending credible commitments of her own, because she hasn’t upheld a number of her own commitments in the recent past. How much weight is one going to place on any commitments the Kremlin — at least as things stand in 2022, under Putin — makes WRT Eastern Europe?
NATO never threatened Russia in any way. Putin only fears that countries decide for themselves that they want to leave the Russian sphere of influence and become successful. What does Macron hope to achieve here, apart from being contrarian?
French and German guarantees for the Minsk accords worked out *real* nice