sharing this article as I think it has far reaching consequences to the publics relationship with the NHS and also its fucking bonkers. this case should never have gone her way.
Why hasn’t she sued her mother? Folic acid was mentioned by the doctor.
[deleted]
How can they rule based on a 20 year old ‘he said -she said’ argument. I don’t understand how they have managed to prove that the doctor didn’t mention folic acid. It was in the guidelines that long ago, surely the mother read books or leaflets too and would have questioned it then?
already predicted in Black Mirror season 1
wha else would come true?
The NHS have to appeal this – the consequences of the ruling could be terrible for public health as doctors will resort to handing out pamphlets that detail absolutely everything instead of personalised advice. As with lists of side-effects on drugs, people just won’t bother trying to read them – the pamphlets will go straight in the bin, and people will end up taking advice from someone who watched a YT video once.
This judgement is currently causing uproar in medical forums.
To summarise (based on my limited legal understanding):
1) The claimant has a form of spina bifida that is NOT caused by a lack of folic acid or parents genetics. To clarify lack of folic acid can cause different types of spina bifida hence we all women are advised to take it if they’re trying to get pregnant.
2) Her mother saw her GP for preconception advice. The GP documented that he advised folic acid. GP can’t remember said consultation (as it was 20 years ago) so only has short notes to go by.
3) 40 weeks after the GP appointment the claimant was born – her parents claim that they couldn’t have been pregnant at the time of the GP appointment as they denied having sex in the preceding months
4) The claimant claims that had the GP explained the potential results of not taking folic acid prior to conception that her mother would have delayed trying for pregnancy for a few weeks thus she would not have been born
5) It was judged therefore that the GP bears liability for her conception, thus her disability, this is due compensation
Please correct me if I’ve gotten this incorrect.
What an absolutely bonkers ruling. I really hope they appeal this. The Dr literally had notes mentioning that he recommended folic acid. Of course the exact details are unknown, but the appointment happened 20 years ago.
And to top it all off, the form of spina bifida she had _wasn’t even caused by a folic acid deficiency._
This ruling could potentially result in GPs churning out leaflets whenever they see a patient to avoid liability, instead of giving patient focused advice like they should.
Folic acid deficiency does not cause that type of neural tube defect.
This is one of the most ludicrous things I’ve ever seen.
1) it was 20 years ago, how you can do a he said/she said on that is beyond me
2) the mums story changed but was “credible” on the day (read upper class)
3) he did inform her of the issue, they both agree, but apparently not strenuously enough for her to care
4) The type of defect she has isn’t even caused by folic acid deficiency
This is implies that for people with disabilities, it’d be better if they’d never been born, which is a horrific implication that surely the judge can’t have intended to make!
So the NHS will get sued all over the place, better put it into private hands as they will run it more efficiently.
Edit : I should added that this plays into the hands of the government who want to privatise it bit by bit.
Sorry but wtf is going on with that ridiculous judge?
She accepts as fact the word of the batty mother that she hadnt had sex, yet doesn’t accept as adequate actually written evidence the Dr provided that he had recommended folate? And then completely ignores the fact that the godforsaken folate wouldn’t have mattered anyway!
She stopped taking the pill on 11th Feb but didn’t have sex for more than two weeks after that? Bullshit.
Evie toombes just mortally endangered her career – it looks like she’s gunning after a community doctor for something entirely reasonable he did 20 years ago, and all because she wanted £££.
This needs to be appealed, with prejudice.
This absolutely needs to be appealed and squashed. This could lead to more problems for disabled people due to the fear this ruling causes.
Why is the mothers remembering of events taken priority over the doctors own notes?
Given she agreed he mentioned it but he did not go into detail for this specific condition it seems like all GPs have to now advise to abort unless they are willing to give you a full multi year education on the possible cause of every disease and rather than just telling you what to do.
This is like suing your doctor who advises you to get vaccinated but because they did not tell you that it would prevent you from missing work on the day you decided to punch the boss you being fired it is their fault.
but to spend the money she’d have to be alive, but she got it because she lives against her wishes so to accept the money is to accept her own life which means she shouldn’t get the money…i’m confused
What?
How do they know that the doctor did not provide the advice?
Also what
>”They had been refraining from sexual intercourse until after they had received advice at this consultation.”
Wish I’d never read this, what a ridiculous judgement, I sincerely hope the GP can appeal before a judge who hasn’t lost their marbles, the whole thing is bloody terrible
[removed]
Trusting a news paper to report fairly and transparently on a ruling is stupid. This is advanced, classic click bait. Please don’t feed the trolls.
Everything about this, including the headline is terrible.
Sounds like this about that girls anger at being born disabled, she wants someone to blame and £££
I don’t understand how she won this case, from what the media says it sounds daft.
Suddenly, no gp in the country is gonna want to give any sort of conception advice
Fucking arsehole of a judge. Reading up on this, her condition isn’t even related to what the doctor did or didn’t do. Her form of the condition has no known cause, there is literally nothing the gp could have done to prevent this…
But the judge seems to be of the opinion that the doctor should have arbitrarily preventing the couple from having sex for a few weeks +
This needs appealed and the judge needs forcibly retired. Clearly they have gone fucking mental
This will no doubt be appealed, it’s actually a ludicrous judgement.
The finding of the judge is that had the patient been informed of taking folic acid supplements, she would have delayed conception and would not have had a child with spina bifida. This is a nonsense and totally misunderstands the idea of risk. Not taking folic acid does NOT mean you definitely get a child with spina bifida, it just means there is an increased risk of the condition. Conversely folic acid doesn’t completely prevent spina bifida, it just reduces the risk. There are lots of risk factors for spina bifida and the cause remains unclear – it’s a combination of genetic and lifestyle factors.
Assuming all other facts stand, while it may be true that the mother may have delayed conception, it does not follow that this would have prevented the daughter’s birth with spina bifida.
Also I’m dubious as to the basis of the judgement based on two people’s recollections of events 20+ years ago. It would be interesting to see the documentation.
I’d be very concerned if this isn’t overturned in the appeal courts.
This girls claims do not add up with her life. Competitive showjumping in non disabled classes? Clearly able to walk. And mild spina bifida doesn’t need a feeding tube.
Somethings going on with mum and daughter here and frankly it’s sus af.
Let alone suing the NHS for something like this at a time like this when you’re clearly already significantly wealthy. Sincerely hope this is overturned. The poor GP.
Yeah, sorry but that’s batshit insane.
lipomyelomeningoceles isn’t caused by folate levels. (doesn’t seem to be genetic either)
The only good advice the doc could have gave the ‘parent’ would have been to not breed *at all* ever.
Whoever let her win this case is an absolute clown
To be fair if my kid grew up to be a showjumper I’d sue too.
So reading between the lines here, it looks like the judge has defacto said:
“Because you didn’t stop her from getting pregnant, she had a disabled child, pay damages”
Which implies that its better if disabled children were never born.
Which to me means that from now on anybody at even a slight risk of having a disabled child will be denied fertility treatment, and be medically advised against conceiving for fear of doctors getting sued.
Does that sound wrong to anyone else?
Why do we spend so much on pointless administrative costs in healthcare, Winston?
30 comments
sharing this article as I think it has far reaching consequences to the publics relationship with the NHS and also its fucking bonkers. this case should never have gone her way.
Why hasn’t she sued her mother? Folic acid was mentioned by the doctor.
[deleted]
How can they rule based on a 20 year old ‘he said -she said’ argument. I don’t understand how they have managed to prove that the doctor didn’t mention folic acid. It was in the guidelines that long ago, surely the mother read books or leaflets too and would have questioned it then?
already predicted in Black Mirror season 1
wha else would come true?
The NHS have to appeal this – the consequences of the ruling could be terrible for public health as doctors will resort to handing out pamphlets that detail absolutely everything instead of personalised advice. As with lists of side-effects on drugs, people just won’t bother trying to read them – the pamphlets will go straight in the bin, and people will end up taking advice from someone who watched a YT video once.
This judgement is currently causing uproar in medical forums.
To summarise (based on my limited legal understanding):
1) The claimant has a form of spina bifida that is NOT caused by a lack of folic acid or parents genetics. To clarify lack of folic acid can cause different types of spina bifida hence we all women are advised to take it if they’re trying to get pregnant.
2) Her mother saw her GP for preconception advice. The GP documented that he advised folic acid. GP can’t remember said consultation (as it was 20 years ago) so only has short notes to go by.
3) 40 weeks after the GP appointment the claimant was born – her parents claim that they couldn’t have been pregnant at the time of the GP appointment as they denied having sex in the preceding months
4) The claimant claims that had the GP explained the potential results of not taking folic acid prior to conception that her mother would have delayed trying for pregnancy for a few weeks thus she would not have been born
5) It was judged therefore that the GP bears liability for her conception, thus her disability, this is due compensation
Please correct me if I’ve gotten this incorrect.
What an absolutely bonkers ruling. I really hope they appeal this. The Dr literally had notes mentioning that he recommended folic acid. Of course the exact details are unknown, but the appointment happened 20 years ago.
And to top it all off, the form of spina bifida she had _wasn’t even caused by a folic acid deficiency._
This ruling could potentially result in GPs churning out leaflets whenever they see a patient to avoid liability, instead of giving patient focused advice like they should.
Folic acid deficiency does not cause that type of neural tube defect.
This is one of the most ludicrous things I’ve ever seen.
1) it was 20 years ago, how you can do a he said/she said on that is beyond me
2) the mums story changed but was “credible” on the day (read upper class)
3) he did inform her of the issue, they both agree, but apparently not strenuously enough for her to care
4) The type of defect she has isn’t even caused by folic acid deficiency
This is implies that for people with disabilities, it’d be better if they’d never been born, which is a horrific implication that surely the judge can’t have intended to make!
So the NHS will get sued all over the place, better put it into private hands as they will run it more efficiently.
Edit : I should added that this plays into the hands of the government who want to privatise it bit by bit.
Sorry but wtf is going on with that ridiculous judge?
She accepts as fact the word of the batty mother that she hadnt had sex, yet doesn’t accept as adequate actually written evidence the Dr provided that he had recommended folate? And then completely ignores the fact that the godforsaken folate wouldn’t have mattered anyway!
She stopped taking the pill on 11th Feb but didn’t have sex for more than two weeks after that? Bullshit.
Evie toombes just mortally endangered her career – it looks like she’s gunning after a community doctor for something entirely reasonable he did 20 years ago, and all because she wanted £££.
This needs to be appealed, with prejudice.
This absolutely needs to be appealed and squashed. This could lead to more problems for disabled people due to the fear this ruling causes.
Why is the mothers remembering of events taken priority over the doctors own notes?
Given she agreed he mentioned it but he did not go into detail for this specific condition it seems like all GPs have to now advise to abort unless they are willing to give you a full multi year education on the possible cause of every disease and rather than just telling you what to do.
This is like suing your doctor who advises you to get vaccinated but because they did not tell you that it would prevent you from missing work on the day you decided to punch the boss you being fired it is their fault.
but to spend the money she’d have to be alive, but she got it because she lives against her wishes so to accept the money is to accept her own life which means she shouldn’t get the money…i’m confused
What?
How do they know that the doctor did not provide the advice?
Also what
>”They had been refraining from sexual intercourse until after they had received advice at this consultation.”
Wish I’d never read this, what a ridiculous judgement, I sincerely hope the GP can appeal before a judge who hasn’t lost their marbles, the whole thing is bloody terrible
[removed]
Trusting a news paper to report fairly and transparently on a ruling is stupid. This is advanced, classic click bait. Please don’t feed the trolls.
Everything about this, including the headline is terrible.
Sounds like this about that girls anger at being born disabled, she wants someone to blame and £££
I don’t understand how she won this case, from what the media says it sounds daft.
Suddenly, no gp in the country is gonna want to give any sort of conception advice
Fucking arsehole of a judge. Reading up on this, her condition isn’t even related to what the doctor did or didn’t do. Her form of the condition has no known cause, there is literally nothing the gp could have done to prevent this…
But the judge seems to be of the opinion that the doctor should have arbitrarily preventing the couple from having sex for a few weeks +
This needs appealed and the judge needs forcibly retired. Clearly they have gone fucking mental
This will no doubt be appealed, it’s actually a ludicrous judgement.
The finding of the judge is that had the patient been informed of taking folic acid supplements, she would have delayed conception and would not have had a child with spina bifida. This is a nonsense and totally misunderstands the idea of risk. Not taking folic acid does NOT mean you definitely get a child with spina bifida, it just means there is an increased risk of the condition. Conversely folic acid doesn’t completely prevent spina bifida, it just reduces the risk. There are lots of risk factors for spina bifida and the cause remains unclear – it’s a combination of genetic and lifestyle factors.
Assuming all other facts stand, while it may be true that the mother may have delayed conception, it does not follow that this would have prevented the daughter’s birth with spina bifida.
Also I’m dubious as to the basis of the judgement based on two people’s recollections of events 20+ years ago. It would be interesting to see the documentation.
I’d be very concerned if this isn’t overturned in the appeal courts.
This girls claims do not add up with her life. Competitive showjumping in non disabled classes? Clearly able to walk. And mild spina bifida doesn’t need a feeding tube.
Somethings going on with mum and daughter here and frankly it’s sus af.
Let alone suing the NHS for something like this at a time like this when you’re clearly already significantly wealthy. Sincerely hope this is overturned. The poor GP.
Yeah, sorry but that’s batshit insane.
lipomyelomeningoceles isn’t caused by folate levels. (doesn’t seem to be genetic either)
The only good advice the doc could have gave the ‘parent’ would have been to not breed *at all* ever.
Whoever let her win this case is an absolute clown
To be fair if my kid grew up to be a showjumper I’d sue too.
So reading between the lines here, it looks like the judge has defacto said:
“Because you didn’t stop her from getting pregnant, she had a disabled child, pay damages”
Which implies that its better if disabled children were never born.
Which to me means that from now on anybody at even a slight risk of having a disabled child will be denied fertility treatment, and be medically advised against conceiving for fear of doctors getting sued.
Does that sound wrong to anyone else?
Why do we spend so much on pointless administrative costs in healthcare, Winston?