Still mental that this problem keeps getting ignored and talked about like it’s going to be fine by government and used for point scoring by opposition.
It’s not fine
65 is not workable. 66 is not workable.
Cop the fuck on and grasp the nettle
The demographics will take care of themselves iirc
Not that you will be able to afford to retire before 68 when the system will keep you renting until the day you die.
Why would anyone support raising the pension age? Who wants to still be working at 68?
Ah yes get the old people to fight the young people…and don’t build any houses, fuck em make em sleep in tents…followed by evil laughter from government buildings
Work all life and die before the pension that’s a win for the government.
As yes, another bill for this current generation to pay for the pensions of Boomers
Edit: curious as to all the down votes. The reason they are increasing the age now is not for this generations pension (18-40 olds). They’re increasing it to pay for the generation that have retired and just about to retire because they can’t pay for it. The burden falls on the young workforce to pay for the retired
There will be the same discussion again in around 10 years time to raise it to 70 plus and then again raise the age.
What happens when there are not enough young people to pay for retirement of elderly in the future? (when the now 18-40olds retire), you still retire at 70, 75, or 80…. But you are not going to get any benefits from it because the pool is too small and there is too many older people
If things were done correctly, each generation pay for their retirement through there taxes for their public pension and private plans separately as required
So in the context of the current ‘bills’ that the younger generation have such as crippling rents and no access to buying housing, I think it’s fair to say that another bill (in the form of higher taxes) for this generation to pay for boomers (who own assets such as houses) retirement is going to be hard to take.
The current system of just kicking the can down the road won’t work forever, they have to change how pensions are funded into the future to make it fair for this and future generations that won’t be able to sustain a increasingly elderly generation. That might involve raising retirement to 75, but that should be done immediately rather than consistently satisfying older voters with better pensions and lower retirement age while getting younger people to pay for it. But I suppose governments work in 4-5 year cycles and that’s all that matters to them
But the tds still get to retire early
Who wants to bet it will be much higher than that when it’s our turn?
And people look at me funny when I say I’ll never get to retire.
If only the billions in the pension reserve fund hadn’t been used to bail out unsecured bondholders in Anglo Irish bank in 2010. I wonder what age fund managers retire at…..
Anyone who thinks it’s as disgrace that the age is increased to 68 doesn’t understand where the money for the pension comes from
honestly pensions will fall apart long before anymore between 25 to 45 is due to draw down. all pensions are for is the fight the ever persistent inflation, governments print money so you can just save cash as it devalued. they create incentives to start a pension, middle men pension funds take their 5% plus or so cut, you you get what ever is left over.
we are at a tipping point with debt though worldwide. governments cant afford to service their debt easily anymore. they will try print their way put of it, but inflation will kill the pension funds. they will invest but it has to be be realatively safe investing. they wont be able to keep up. and there will be a lot of angry pensioners, who find their current mobthly allocations dont keep up with the msrket
Work to death, own no home, pay their debt.
And rhis is why the Sinn Fein idea to REDUCE the ceiling on tax free private pensions is utterly insane to me
At this point is a pension scheme even worth it? Why not just save cash for the 2-3 years of life after retirement
I get that the current pension scheme is unsustainable. Obviously, something needs to be done and the most obvious solution is the delay benefits. Sucks, but needs must.
A much more difficult (but better) solution would be to keep younger people in Ireland, and thus paying into the pension pot for all their working lives. Whilst it is good for the individual to work in London or America during their 20s, 30s and 40s, and return to Ireland to wind down their career; it is detrimental to functioning of pension scheme.
In the short term, raise the pension age to stop the immediate bleeding. In the long term, figure out how to create opportunities for young people that rival the opportunities offered outside Ireland. The pension age cannot be raised incrementally each decade; that will only encourage more people (and they will be the high earners and entrepreneurs) to leave and never return.
I’d say anyone that is young is beyond fucked when it comes to a pension. I’m not counting on any form of pension to exist by the time I get old.
You’ll probably have to work until your 80 or so and get an absolute pittance thereafter.
The rate of GNI* growth is (and always is long-term) much faster than the rate of retired vs employed growth.
That means all that needs to be done to end this ‘crisis’ is to fund pensions at the same percentage of GNI*.
It is only portrayed as a ‘crisis’ because NeoLiberal’s plan to slash public pension funding (including by stealth, through raising the retirement age).
The OECD is just another well-known NeoLiberal institution, them saying this is about as predictable as Leo saying “exterminate dole recipients”.
The government should set up a national pension fund. The fund could invest in long term assets and gain an illiquidity premium.
Of course the pension age has to rise. People are living longer and someone has to foot the bill. Your PRSI contributions aren’t going into a public pension pot to build compound interest over your lifetime, they’re just collecting tax and it’s the working generation who are funding the pensions. And given the decline in birth rates I wouldn’t be relying on the state to pay your pension in 40-50 years time as there’ll be more pensioners than young folk working.
All well and good raising the pension age but surely there has to be different pension ages, depending on the work discipline.
My father who is a block layer in his mid 50s and can hardly walk after a days work. How the hell is he expected to work till he’s 68? The current pension age is still too old for him and others who have trades and have physically demanding jobs.
And SF say they’ll lower the pension…
So can we start calling it a scam now. Young people are paying for it and will never get to use it
I will vote against any party that wants to implement this, end of
It’s worrying, but I think demanding people work 50 years is not going to fly. Maybe blended working with inbuilt career breaks and a move to a 4 day week might soften the blow. I will have been in employment for 50 years (mix of full and part time) by the time I reach 65 and can retire, I do not intend to work a second past that date!
I better pay my tax to support elderly than support your sausage parties and robberies
Turn old people into soylent green. Problem solved.
Fuck that, reduce it to 60.
It’s funny to think the same young people who are expected to work til they die in the future because we won’t have pensions are currently having our eyes ripped out by pension funds buying up all the housing and trying to rent it back to us. Running the lotto. Taking the motorway tolls (and increasing them).
There won’t be anyone left in the country shortly to pay for the pensions.
Everyone in their 20’s and early 30’s is just gone. Of the people I know about 3/4 have left the country. I don’t think my experience is unique either but it is just my experience I can talk to. That and all the photos of Irish people I see daily out in Australia, dubai, Canada, NZ, UK, etc etc
Before raising the pension age, [we could do a lot more to keep workers in their 50’s ticking along in work.](https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/RS92_2.pdf) A huge portion of these leave work to care for family (women are especially likely to do this) or leave work because of a disability that they can no longer manage. Also, a significant portion of these workers retire early and take voluntary leave. A huge portion of these early leavers come from professional and managerial jobs, which suggests they’ve been planning early leave for a long time.
tl;dr, we lose a lot of workers when they hit 55+ for voluntary and involuntary reasons, and fixing the pipe there with better working conditions or at least more flexible work arrangements would go a long way.
The fact of the matter is that when it was set up the pension was meant to sustain people for 5-10 years max, we now have people living well beyond that 20 and 30 years beyond that and that is only going to keep growing. There are only two ways to solve it, we either raise the pension age or we increase PRSI. IMHO the younger generation have enough to contend with and the older generation have consistently sold them down the river to maintain their own status quo, raise the fucking thing and if you want to retire earlier save up for it.
Old folks do absolutely fine, most of them are home owners and they have the lowest consistent poverty rate of any group, the same certainly won’t be said in 30 and 40 years time when an entire generation of people who had to pay for the sins of the father and never got to own a home or save into a pension fund come to retirement age. I will vote against any party who wants to further saddle current working age people with more burden rather than raise the retirement age.
GET. FUCKED.
Legalise weed and that 13bn hole will be closed by the taxes it brings in. Fuck this nonsense of working til u die
Most people in their 40s won’t be getting a state pension if political parties don’t raise the pension age.
Take the extortionate pensions off retired TDs. That’ll help pay for some of it. Only fuckers like that who have worked in an office all their life think that 66 is a workable age to retire at.
This country is fuckin broken
How this is even a debate is beyond me.
My retirement plan is to turn to crime in my 60’s.
Im hoping there’s some cheap land on mars by the time I retire
What I never understand is how can it be that Ireland, with one of the youngest populations in Europe, cannot afford a pension age of 65 when there are many other countries with lower retirement ages.
France is 62 – even if they raised their’s three years it would only match ours at 65.
Estonia is 63 and is raising it… to 65
Latvia and Lithuania are 63 and are also raising it to 65
Moldova is raising their Women’s pension age from 58 to March the Men’s age of 63 by 2028.
How is it that Ireland remaining at 65/66 is quite *so* impossible that the issue seems to transcend political ideology and it just thought of as logically impossible.
I’m never gonna retire….
So basically we need a Logan’s run scenario?
Yeh that’s ok for the pen pushers. People out grafting doing 2 peoples jobs because there is a manpower shortage and you people think houses just grow on trees. donkeys
I hear this same rhetoric from the CEO of my huge, multinational employer.
“We’ve had an amazing quarter, best return for investors yet. Unfortunately there’s no money for salary increases but we believe in you.”
Seems like this current economic system is really not feasible.
I need to get the fuck out of here before it’s too late
A lot of people in the comments are opposed to this, but practically none of them are proposing an alternative.
You’re either for raising the retirement age, reducing the pension allowance, or placing significant extra taxes on the youth. Criticising one of those options without declaring which one you support is arguing in bad faith.
47 comments
Still mental that this problem keeps getting ignored and talked about like it’s going to be fine by government and used for point scoring by opposition.
It’s not fine
65 is not workable. 66 is not workable.
Cop the fuck on and grasp the nettle
The demographics will take care of themselves iirc
Not that you will be able to afford to retire before 68 when the system will keep you renting until the day you die.
Why would anyone support raising the pension age? Who wants to still be working at 68?
Ah yes get the old people to fight the young people…and don’t build any houses, fuck em make em sleep in tents…followed by evil laughter from government buildings
Work all life and die before the pension that’s a win for the government.
As yes, another bill for this current generation to pay for the pensions of Boomers
Edit: curious as to all the down votes. The reason they are increasing the age now is not for this generations pension (18-40 olds). They’re increasing it to pay for the generation that have retired and just about to retire because they can’t pay for it. The burden falls on the young workforce to pay for the retired
There will be the same discussion again in around 10 years time to raise it to 70 plus and then again raise the age.
What happens when there are not enough young people to pay for retirement of elderly in the future? (when the now 18-40olds retire), you still retire at 70, 75, or 80…. But you are not going to get any benefits from it because the pool is too small and there is too many older people
If things were done correctly, each generation pay for their retirement through there taxes for their public pension and private plans separately as required
So in the context of the current ‘bills’ that the younger generation have such as crippling rents and no access to buying housing, I think it’s fair to say that another bill (in the form of higher taxes) for this generation to pay for boomers (who own assets such as houses) retirement is going to be hard to take.
The current system of just kicking the can down the road won’t work forever, they have to change how pensions are funded into the future to make it fair for this and future generations that won’t be able to sustain a increasingly elderly generation. That might involve raising retirement to 75, but that should be done immediately rather than consistently satisfying older voters with better pensions and lower retirement age while getting younger people to pay for it. But I suppose governments work in 4-5 year cycles and that’s all that matters to them
But the tds still get to retire early
Who wants to bet it will be much higher than that when it’s our turn?
And people look at me funny when I say I’ll never get to retire.
If only the billions in the pension reserve fund hadn’t been used to bail out unsecured bondholders in Anglo Irish bank in 2010. I wonder what age fund managers retire at…..
Anyone who thinks it’s as disgrace that the age is increased to 68 doesn’t understand where the money for the pension comes from
honestly pensions will fall apart long before anymore between 25 to 45 is due to draw down. all pensions are for is the fight the ever persistent inflation, governments print money so you can just save cash as it devalued. they create incentives to start a pension, middle men pension funds take their 5% plus or so cut, you you get what ever is left over.
we are at a tipping point with debt though worldwide. governments cant afford to service their debt easily anymore. they will try print their way put of it, but inflation will kill the pension funds. they will invest but it has to be be realatively safe investing. they wont be able to keep up. and there will be a lot of angry pensioners, who find their current mobthly allocations dont keep up with the msrket
Work to death, own no home, pay their debt.
And rhis is why the Sinn Fein idea to REDUCE the ceiling on tax free private pensions is utterly insane to me
At this point is a pension scheme even worth it? Why not just save cash for the 2-3 years of life after retirement
I get that the current pension scheme is unsustainable. Obviously, something needs to be done and the most obvious solution is the delay benefits. Sucks, but needs must.
A much more difficult (but better) solution would be to keep younger people in Ireland, and thus paying into the pension pot for all their working lives. Whilst it is good for the individual to work in London or America during their 20s, 30s and 40s, and return to Ireland to wind down their career; it is detrimental to functioning of pension scheme.
In the short term, raise the pension age to stop the immediate bleeding. In the long term, figure out how to create opportunities for young people that rival the opportunities offered outside Ireland. The pension age cannot be raised incrementally each decade; that will only encourage more people (and they will be the high earners and entrepreneurs) to leave and never return.
I’d say anyone that is young is beyond fucked when it comes to a pension. I’m not counting on any form of pension to exist by the time I get old.
You’ll probably have to work until your 80 or so and get an absolute pittance thereafter.
The rate of GNI* growth is (and always is long-term) much faster than the rate of retired vs employed growth.
That means all that needs to be done to end this ‘crisis’ is to fund pensions at the same percentage of GNI*.
It is only portrayed as a ‘crisis’ because NeoLiberal’s plan to slash public pension funding (including by stealth, through raising the retirement age).
The OECD is just another well-known NeoLiberal institution, them saying this is about as predictable as Leo saying “exterminate dole recipients”.
The government should set up a national pension fund. The fund could invest in long term assets and gain an illiquidity premium.
Of course the pension age has to rise. People are living longer and someone has to foot the bill. Your PRSI contributions aren’t going into a public pension pot to build compound interest over your lifetime, they’re just collecting tax and it’s the working generation who are funding the pensions. And given the decline in birth rates I wouldn’t be relying on the state to pay your pension in 40-50 years time as there’ll be more pensioners than young folk working.
All well and good raising the pension age but surely there has to be different pension ages, depending on the work discipline.
My father who is a block layer in his mid 50s and can hardly walk after a days work. How the hell is he expected to work till he’s 68? The current pension age is still too old for him and others who have trades and have physically demanding jobs.
And SF say they’ll lower the pension…
So can we start calling it a scam now. Young people are paying for it and will never get to use it
I will vote against any party that wants to implement this, end of
It’s worrying, but I think demanding people work 50 years is not going to fly. Maybe blended working with inbuilt career breaks and a move to a 4 day week might soften the blow. I will have been in employment for 50 years (mix of full and part time) by the time I reach 65 and can retire, I do not intend to work a second past that date!
I better pay my tax to support elderly than support your sausage parties and robberies
Turn old people into soylent green. Problem solved.
Fuck that, reduce it to 60.
It’s funny to think the same young people who are expected to work til they die in the future because we won’t have pensions are currently having our eyes ripped out by pension funds buying up all the housing and trying to rent it back to us. Running the lotto. Taking the motorway tolls (and increasing them).
There won’t be anyone left in the country shortly to pay for the pensions.
Everyone in their 20’s and early 30’s is just gone. Of the people I know about 3/4 have left the country. I don’t think my experience is unique either but it is just my experience I can talk to. That and all the photos of Irish people I see daily out in Australia, dubai, Canada, NZ, UK, etc etc
Before raising the pension age, [we could do a lot more to keep workers in their 50’s ticking along in work.](https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/RS92_2.pdf) A huge portion of these leave work to care for family (women are especially likely to do this) or leave work because of a disability that they can no longer manage. Also, a significant portion of these workers retire early and take voluntary leave. A huge portion of these early leavers come from professional and managerial jobs, which suggests they’ve been planning early leave for a long time.
tl;dr, we lose a lot of workers when they hit 55+ for voluntary and involuntary reasons, and fixing the pipe there with better working conditions or at least more flexible work arrangements would go a long way.
The fact of the matter is that when it was set up the pension was meant to sustain people for 5-10 years max, we now have people living well beyond that 20 and 30 years beyond that and that is only going to keep growing. There are only two ways to solve it, we either raise the pension age or we increase PRSI. IMHO the younger generation have enough to contend with and the older generation have consistently sold them down the river to maintain their own status quo, raise the fucking thing and if you want to retire earlier save up for it.
Old folks do absolutely fine, most of them are home owners and they have the lowest consistent poverty rate of any group, the same certainly won’t be said in 30 and 40 years time when an entire generation of people who had to pay for the sins of the father and never got to own a home or save into a pension fund come to retirement age. I will vote against any party who wants to further saddle current working age people with more burden rather than raise the retirement age.
GET. FUCKED.
Legalise weed and that 13bn hole will be closed by the taxes it brings in. Fuck this nonsense of working til u die
Most people in their 40s won’t be getting a state pension if political parties don’t raise the pension age.
Take the extortionate pensions off retired TDs. That’ll help pay for some of it. Only fuckers like that who have worked in an office all their life think that 66 is a workable age to retire at.
This country is fuckin broken
How this is even a debate is beyond me.
My retirement plan is to turn to crime in my 60’s.
Im hoping there’s some cheap land on mars by the time I retire
What I never understand is how can it be that Ireland, with one of the youngest populations in Europe, cannot afford a pension age of 65 when there are many other countries with lower retirement ages.
France is 62 – even if they raised their’s three years it would only match ours at 65.
Estonia is 63 and is raising it… to 65
Latvia and Lithuania are 63 and are also raising it to 65
Moldova is raising their Women’s pension age from 58 to March the Men’s age of 63 by 2028.
How is it that Ireland remaining at 65/66 is quite *so* impossible that the issue seems to transcend political ideology and it just thought of as logically impossible.
I’m never gonna retire….
So basically we need a Logan’s run scenario?
Yeh that’s ok for the pen pushers. People out grafting doing 2 peoples jobs because there is a manpower shortage and you people think houses just grow on trees. donkeys
I hear this same rhetoric from the CEO of my huge, multinational employer.
“We’ve had an amazing quarter, best return for investors yet. Unfortunately there’s no money for salary increases but we believe in you.”
Seems like this current economic system is really not feasible.
I need to get the fuck out of here before it’s too late
Full breakdown of the massive problem the state pension is facing: https://nationalpensionhelpline.ie/pensions/the-state-pension-problem/
A lot of people in the comments are opposed to this, but practically none of them are proposing an alternative.
You’re either for raising the retirement age, reducing the pension allowance, or placing significant extra taxes on the youth. Criticising one of those options without declaring which one you support is arguing in bad faith.