Which is correct. Some white people happen to be born in privileged position. Average white person is not abd there aremany that are underprivileged such as children of single parent who struggles to gets the end meet
We don’t ever talk about East Asian privilege, despite the fact that they out perform the white population by pretty much all metrics, such as educational attainment and income.
Which isn’t a big deal… But why so much focus on white privilege?
White privilege discussions/articles/TV progs/radio show/etc… have **one aim and one aim only**:
**DEFLECT YOUR ATTENTION FROM TORIES ROBBING US BLIND.**
Same with trans
Same with immigrants
Same with Harry and what’s her name etc
White privilege does exist. It’s just one variable in a multiple variable analysis. For example, it’s pretty hard to argue that a rich, black kid growing up in London has less opportunities than a poor white kid growing up in rural northern England.
People just need to stop making blanket statements on white people being privileged, but rather only apply to individual cases when taking into consideration other factors.
Because you shouldn’t just import American terms here
Are we really going to act like there’s some multi-ethnic ‘white’ identity in Britain and that Eastern Europeans etc aren’t also massively discriminated against?
Also, it’s all class system here man – the issue for non-White-British people is that such a system was formed pre-1945 or centuries ago when they weren’t in this country in statistically significant numbers and so there aren’t many non-white-British members of these upper/middle classes
‘You shouldn’t be teaching as fact things that are debates’.
Don’t know how anyone can have a problem with that, unless of course you actually want to indoctrinate education.
I think this is correct. What “white privilege” is is not a *fact*, but rather a concept that is used to explain facts. This might seem like a petty distinction, but I think it is important to make it.
We know from studies into the statistical well being of demographic groups within our country that white people in general score higher on many life outcomes than other ethnic groups (though I do think people may be surprised by how frequently white people actually find themselves somewhere in the middle, or even at the very bottom, rather than at the top). Either way, these are facts.
White privilege – as a concept – can be invoked to explain those facts, and it is evidently highly intuitive to many people to do so. But like other concepts, discussion should be open as to whether it has the utility that people seem to believe it does.
For my part, I don’t use any term that attaches the name of a demographic to a property that all demographics can have, e.g. “female intuition”, “toxic masculinity”.
Are you put off by that statement? Why? If you believe in white privilege, then it applies equally all the way down to the most destitute person.
By detaching privilege from well being, we create a situation in which no conceivable scenario could possibly contradict the concept of “white privilege”: it has become a tautology.
It is like my favourite line from Parks and Recreation, where Ron Swanson has been awarded the Pawnee Woman of the Year Award, much to Leslie’s chagrin. When, later in the episode, Leslie admonishes Ron by saying “[That is not the kind of attitude I would expect from an award-winner](https://youtu.be/r54L-nUM5GY?t=41)”, Ron simply replies “Everything I do is the attitude of an award-winner, because I have won an award”.
Similarly, you might think that being homeless is not the kind of lifestyle you would expect from someone with white privilege, but if “white privilege” is a valid concept, then *every* lifestyle a white person has is an example of white privilege, because they are white.
This renders all efforts to close gaps in cross-demographic well being futile, since regardless of any advances, the problematic force of white privilege will still be present, and no positive change can ever be believed to have taken place.
I’m reminded of the quote from Mark Twain: “Give a man a reputation as an early riser, and he can sleep til noon.”
A variation on this quote that is relevant to this discussion could be “Give a demographic a reputation as privileged, and their wellbeing can take a nosedive without anyone noticing.”
I think privelidge is the wrong word. Its also very US specific and assumes that there is a white majority. A global definition would be better.
Han chinese, Arabs, some African ethic groups are advantaged in their countries of origin.
I dont know what to call it but the current phrase is divisive and implies that the advantages of being part of a dominant ethnic group are a white only phenomenon.
Not compared to location priviledge or wealth priviledge, so yes, I might be able to agree to this.
Paddy Pimblett definitely had less opportunities than someone living in London.
Agree whole heartedly. Again its another example of political correctness gone mad.
All I see is black privilege these days…. literally jobs will be hiring specifically POC… surely if you want equality for black people it would mean exactly that. As well, you can do what ever the fuck you like then turn around an scream racism to get out of pretty much anything…
The whole gatekeeping of the experience of racism too is fucked. So white people can’t experience racism? Get fucked… tell that to Irish, tell that to Eastern Europeans in UK… the list goes on.
Finally I genuinely think a lot of Americans struggle to comprehend that other countries exist. Think that’s where a lot of this comes from.
No shit. I’m from the north west, not much of it knocking around here !
White privilege is undoubtedly a thing but the truth is we’re all in the intersection of many factors.
Class is a big one. My wife is brown but comes from money. I’m working class and white.
She got racist shit growing up and has faced institutional racism throughout her life, but also had opportunities and privileges that I couldn’t dream of. Private education, holidays, family safety net, the ability to take unpaid internships and not have to work while she was at uni. The confidence that comes with all that.
Meanwhile I’m getting the shit kicked out me due to living in a rough area, going hungry, working full time while being at uni, losing friends to drugs, facing classist bullshit when I started working, trying to navigate all the unspoken class rules that you just don’t known when you’re not from that background and dealing with the embarrassment of fucking them up and others preconceived classist assumptions etc. It’s well documented that a “foreign” name on a CV leads to worse outcomes, but it’s also well documented that a working class accent impacts peoples view of you at interview. However you’re more likely to get that interview in the first place. It’s complex.
I’m not saying this outweighs her own struggles but they are different. I guess what I’m trying to say is that all else being equal race undoubtedly impacts your life. I’ve seen firsthand how both conscious and unconscious racism effects hers and it sucks.
But its rare that all things are equal and the way white privilege is used is often reductive and overly simplistic and blind to the complexities of us as multi faceted individuals.
Some people blame class, racism, sexism, or any old “ism” going to explain their poor life choices and outcomes when in reality it is often that they are just unlikeable cunts….
There is a “who you know” privilege, a “good looking person” privilege, “people who are healthy” privilege, “people who are genuinely nice” privilege, and “people who are rich” privilege, also “high IQ” privilege. We have to make the most of the card we are dealt with, and the UK is one of the more enlightened places in the world, I know there are issues, but there are much worse places, and most likely you have one of the above privileges.
Taking a step back and removing any party preconceptions ~~and any hate I hold for the tories~~, this is an education secretary talking in an interview about whether white privilege should be taught as a fact in schools.
She says no, and her answer, in my opinion, is correct.
I think it’s important not to prejudice the next generation, in the same way as I don’t think party politics should be a topic in fundamental education. Teaching something subjective and circumstantial as gospel is akin to religious indoctrination, and I don’t think we should be doing that either.
More importantly, there are areas where this message will do more harm than good. White working class males are the only demographic whose educational achievements are consistently falling year on year, they have been for some time.
The reasons for that are a discussion for another time, but beating those kids with a narrative that they are privileged just seems cruel and wrong, again, in my opinion.
White privilege does not exist.
A function of society is to benefit the majority, once those protection and services are well established the society then moves on to start implementing protections and services for minorities and marginalised groups.
For white privilege to exist, Chinese privilege must exist in China. African privilege must exist in African countries.
Throwing the term white privilege about is just racist bullshit, you don’t like it because its white and that is the only reason.
It is just the core function of society.
Western societies have the best established protections and support for minorities and marginalised groups of any societies on earth.
The people saying this is a dead cat – fine.
But you need to tell those holding talks where they openly talk about their fantasies of killing white people that. At prestigious universities.
They don’t help 😂
We all know white privilege doesn’t exist, it’s just an idea pushed by racists who want to attack white people. Every group of people have their own advantages and disadvantages so they all have privileges so what is the point of saying any single group has privilege when every group does.
Probably agree with a lot of the comments here as it being a typical deflection technique by a underseige Conservative party. However, there is definitely a debate to be had about what we do teach in schools in this area. Whilst I’m probably convinced that “white privilege” exists on some level, I don’t think the white element is helpful at all and probably quite racist in its own way. It’s probably more fair to say that the dominant culture in any nation state embues members of that group a level of social currency or advantage by being part of that group over others that are not in that group. That changes over time and place too. Plenty of white groups have been disadvantaged in British history, like Jewish people or Irish immigrants for example, to the privilege or benefit of the “natives”. privilege also cuts across class or regional lines too even within the dominant group. It was not so long ago working class people were written off simply by where they came from or simply due to their accent or local dialect, or ‘breeding ‘ as upper class people might comment. It’s a nuanced debate when we talk about success and the factors that hinder it or promote it for individuas and group. Signing up to relatively new intellectual discipline, like say critical race theory, that trace their roots back to the US social system and culture, might not be helpful in understanding the issues in British system, indeed my hinder it or blur the issue.
The argument of people against white privilege seems to rest on what they believe it means. They believe it means one thing, even against people telling them that’s not what it means.
It’s footballers doing BLM all over again. Where people said they were supporting Marxism and the goals of the BLM org, and the footballers themselves where like “nah we’re just supporting injustice against black people”.
This comment isn’t related to the story but I just want people to know that she’s a completely useless MP. She represents my constituency. She never turns up to hustings. She didn’t bother to knock on doors. She didn’t even make any campaign leaflets. I find it bewildering that someone who seems to have contempt for her constituents, got elected by a landslide. I really hate where I live. It’s been Tory getting on for 150 years (except for a brief 6 months in the 1920s). My votes have never counted. The system is broken
This is just the Tories whipping up people with culture wars stuff to deflect from what they are doing.
It is a common tactic these days on the right wing unfortunately. Tories only just discovered the term woke a couple years ago and now they won’t shut up about it and use it as an insult to shut down any type of progressive ideas.
My local MP, who is completely useless and never actually in the constituency, she doesn’t even pretend to care about us, I needed help and found she doesn’t even run constituency surgeries
It’s deliberate misunderstanding of the meaning of ‘privilege’ in this context, which is quite specific. That, as has been said, will stir up their Express reading base.
The White privilege is not to be discriminated against in many small ways everyday by White people in a White majority country.
No-one avoids you, no-one tells you to go back to your own country, no-one tells you they could buy people like you ten times over.
It’s easy to miss, and to dismiss, things that aren’t happening. But they are happening to other people.
UK poor white working class people have the lowest chance of going to university of any demographic…
26 comments
Which is correct. Some white people happen to be born in privileged position. Average white person is not abd there aremany that are underprivileged such as children of single parent who struggles to gets the end meet
We don’t ever talk about East Asian privilege, despite the fact that they out perform the white population by pretty much all metrics, such as educational attainment and income.
Which isn’t a big deal… But why so much focus on white privilege?
White privilege discussions/articles/TV progs/radio show/etc… have **one aim and one aim only**:
**DEFLECT YOUR ATTENTION FROM TORIES ROBBING US BLIND.**
Same with trans
Same with immigrants
Same with Harry and what’s her name etc
White privilege does exist. It’s just one variable in a multiple variable analysis. For example, it’s pretty hard to argue that a rich, black kid growing up in London has less opportunities than a poor white kid growing up in rural northern England.
People just need to stop making blanket statements on white people being privileged, but rather only apply to individual cases when taking into consideration other factors.
Because you shouldn’t just import American terms here
Are we really going to act like there’s some multi-ethnic ‘white’ identity in Britain and that Eastern Europeans etc aren’t also massively discriminated against?
Also, it’s all class system here man – the issue for non-White-British people is that such a system was formed pre-1945 or centuries ago when they weren’t in this country in statistically significant numbers and so there aren’t many non-white-British members of these upper/middle classes
‘You shouldn’t be teaching as fact things that are debates’.
Don’t know how anyone can have a problem with that, unless of course you actually want to indoctrinate education.
I think this is correct. What “white privilege” is is not a *fact*, but rather a concept that is used to explain facts. This might seem like a petty distinction, but I think it is important to make it.
We know from studies into the statistical well being of demographic groups within our country that white people in general score higher on many life outcomes than other ethnic groups (though I do think people may be surprised by how frequently white people actually find themselves somewhere in the middle, or even at the very bottom, rather than at the top). Either way, these are facts.
White privilege – as a concept – can be invoked to explain those facts, and it is evidently highly intuitive to many people to do so. But like other concepts, discussion should be open as to whether it has the utility that people seem to believe it does.
Unfortunately, the well has been well and truly poisoned by verifiable bigots like Lawrence Fox, which makes mounting an argument against the concept difficult; but nevertheless far more respectable people like Kenan Malik have offered their own [critiques of white privilege](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/14/white-privilege-is-a-lazy-distraction-leaving-racism-and-power-untouched), which I think deserve more traction and attention.
For my part, I don’t use any term that attaches the name of a demographic to a property that all demographics can have, e.g. “female intuition”, “toxic masculinity”.
The problem with the concept of white privilege is that it decouples “privilege” from the thing it is meant to refer to – material well being and social status – and instead anchors it to an immutable characteristic. This is why you can occasionally hear statements like “[You can be homeless and still have white privilege](https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/sep/04/munroe-bergdorf-on-the-loreal-racism-row-it-puzzles-me-that-my-views-are-considered-extreme).”
Are you put off by that statement? Why? If you believe in white privilege, then it applies equally all the way down to the most destitute person.
By detaching privilege from well being, we create a situation in which no conceivable scenario could possibly contradict the concept of “white privilege”: it has become a tautology.
It is like my favourite line from Parks and Recreation, where Ron Swanson has been awarded the Pawnee Woman of the Year Award, much to Leslie’s chagrin. When, later in the episode, Leslie admonishes Ron by saying “[That is not the kind of attitude I would expect from an award-winner](https://youtu.be/r54L-nUM5GY?t=41)”, Ron simply replies “Everything I do is the attitude of an award-winner, because I have won an award”.
Similarly, you might think that being homeless is not the kind of lifestyle you would expect from someone with white privilege, but if “white privilege” is a valid concept, then *every* lifestyle a white person has is an example of white privilege, because they are white.
This renders all efforts to close gaps in cross-demographic well being futile, since regardless of any advances, the problematic force of white privilege will still be present, and no positive change can ever be believed to have taken place.
I’m reminded of the quote from Mark Twain: “Give a man a reputation as an early riser, and he can sleep til noon.”
A variation on this quote that is relevant to this discussion could be “Give a demographic a reputation as privileged, and their wellbeing can take a nosedive without anyone noticing.”
I think privelidge is the wrong word. Its also very US specific and assumes that there is a white majority. A global definition would be better.
Han chinese, Arabs, some African ethic groups are advantaged in their countries of origin.
I dont know what to call it but the current phrase is divisive and implies that the advantages of being part of a dominant ethnic group are a white only phenomenon.
Not compared to location priviledge or wealth priviledge, so yes, I might be able to agree to this.
Paddy Pimblett definitely had less opportunities than someone living in London.
Agree whole heartedly. Again its another example of political correctness gone mad.
All I see is black privilege these days…. literally jobs will be hiring specifically POC… surely if you want equality for black people it would mean exactly that. As well, you can do what ever the fuck you like then turn around an scream racism to get out of pretty much anything…
The whole gatekeeping of the experience of racism too is fucked. So white people can’t experience racism? Get fucked… tell that to Irish, tell that to Eastern Europeans in UK… the list goes on.
Finally I genuinely think a lot of Americans struggle to comprehend that other countries exist. Think that’s where a lot of this comes from.
No shit. I’m from the north west, not much of it knocking around here !
White privilege is undoubtedly a thing but the truth is we’re all in the intersection of many factors.
Class is a big one. My wife is brown but comes from money. I’m working class and white.
She got racist shit growing up and has faced institutional racism throughout her life, but also had opportunities and privileges that I couldn’t dream of. Private education, holidays, family safety net, the ability to take unpaid internships and not have to work while she was at uni. The confidence that comes with all that.
Meanwhile I’m getting the shit kicked out me due to living in a rough area, going hungry, working full time while being at uni, losing friends to drugs, facing classist bullshit when I started working, trying to navigate all the unspoken class rules that you just don’t known when you’re not from that background and dealing with the embarrassment of fucking them up and others preconceived classist assumptions etc. It’s well documented that a “foreign” name on a CV leads to worse outcomes, but it’s also well documented that a working class accent impacts peoples view of you at interview. However you’re more likely to get that interview in the first place. It’s complex.
I’m not saying this outweighs her own struggles but they are different. I guess what I’m trying to say is that all else being equal race undoubtedly impacts your life. I’ve seen firsthand how both conscious and unconscious racism effects hers and it sucks.
But its rare that all things are equal and the way white privilege is used is often reductive and overly simplistic and blind to the complexities of us as multi faceted individuals.
Some people blame class, racism, sexism, or any old “ism” going to explain their poor life choices and outcomes when in reality it is often that they are just unlikeable cunts….
There is a “who you know” privilege, a “good looking person” privilege, “people who are healthy” privilege, “people who are genuinely nice” privilege, and “people who are rich” privilege, also “high IQ” privilege. We have to make the most of the card we are dealt with, and the UK is one of the more enlightened places in the world, I know there are issues, but there are much worse places, and most likely you have one of the above privileges.
Taking a step back and removing any party preconceptions ~~and any hate I hold for the tories~~, this is an education secretary talking in an interview about whether white privilege should be taught as a fact in schools.
She says no, and her answer, in my opinion, is correct.
I think it’s important not to prejudice the next generation, in the same way as I don’t think party politics should be a topic in fundamental education. Teaching something subjective and circumstantial as gospel is akin to religious indoctrination, and I don’t think we should be doing that either.
More importantly, there are areas where this message will do more harm than good. White working class males are the only demographic whose educational achievements are consistently falling year on year, they have been for some time.
The reasons for that are a discussion for another time, but beating those kids with a narrative that they are privileged just seems cruel and wrong, again, in my opinion.
White privilege does not exist.
A function of society is to benefit the majority, once those protection and services are well established the society then moves on to start implementing protections and services for minorities and marginalised groups.
For white privilege to exist, Chinese privilege must exist in China. African privilege must exist in African countries.
Throwing the term white privilege about is just racist bullshit, you don’t like it because its white and that is the only reason.
It is just the core function of society.
Western societies have the best established protections and support for minorities and marginalised groups of any societies on earth.
The people saying this is a dead cat – fine.
But you need to tell those holding talks where they openly talk about their fantasies of killing white people that. At prestigious universities.
They don’t help 😂
We all know white privilege doesn’t exist, it’s just an idea pushed by racists who want to attack white people. Every group of people have their own advantages and disadvantages so they all have privileges so what is the point of saying any single group has privilege when every group does.
Probably agree with a lot of the comments here as it being a typical deflection technique by a underseige Conservative party. However, there is definitely a debate to be had about what we do teach in schools in this area. Whilst I’m probably convinced that “white privilege” exists on some level, I don’t think the white element is helpful at all and probably quite racist in its own way. It’s probably more fair to say that the dominant culture in any nation state embues members of that group a level of social currency or advantage by being part of that group over others that are not in that group. That changes over time and place too. Plenty of white groups have been disadvantaged in British history, like Jewish people or Irish immigrants for example, to the privilege or benefit of the “natives”. privilege also cuts across class or regional lines too even within the dominant group. It was not so long ago working class people were written off simply by where they came from or simply due to their accent or local dialect, or ‘breeding ‘ as upper class people might comment. It’s a nuanced debate when we talk about success and the factors that hinder it or promote it for individuas and group. Signing up to relatively new intellectual discipline, like say critical race theory, that trace their roots back to the US social system and culture, might not be helpful in understanding the issues in British system, indeed my hinder it or blur the issue.
The argument of people against white privilege seems to rest on what they believe it means. They believe it means one thing, even against people telling them that’s not what it means.
It’s footballers doing BLM all over again. Where people said they were supporting Marxism and the goals of the BLM org, and the footballers themselves where like “nah we’re just supporting injustice against black people”.
This comment isn’t related to the story but I just want people to know that she’s a completely useless MP. She represents my constituency. She never turns up to hustings. She didn’t bother to knock on doors. She didn’t even make any campaign leaflets. I find it bewildering that someone who seems to have contempt for her constituents, got elected by a landslide. I really hate where I live. It’s been Tory getting on for 150 years (except for a brief 6 months in the 1920s). My votes have never counted. The system is broken
This is just the Tories whipping up people with culture wars stuff to deflect from what they are doing.
It is a common tactic these days on the right wing unfortunately. Tories only just discovered the term woke a couple years ago and now they won’t shut up about it and use it as an insult to shut down any type of progressive ideas.
My local MP, who is completely useless and never actually in the constituency, she doesn’t even pretend to care about us, I needed help and found she doesn’t even run constituency surgeries
It’s deliberate misunderstanding of the meaning of ‘privilege’ in this context, which is quite specific. That, as has been said, will stir up their Express reading base.
The White privilege is not to be discriminated against in many small ways everyday by White people in a White majority country.
No-one avoids you, no-one tells you to go back to your own country, no-one tells you they could buy people like you ten times over.
It’s easy to miss, and to dismiss, things that aren’t happening. But they are happening to other people.
UK poor white working class people have the lowest chance of going to university of any demographic…