Not sure how either side can take him seriously. Remain voters can see he is just pandering now to leave voters for votes. Brexit is done. Let’s stop talking about the mess and move forward please. Yes it was a terrible decision and one the electorate will pay for over generations, but the sooner we get away from tribal leave/remain split, the sooner we can talk about some important politics. Like our starving children, underfunded healthcare, polluted cities and fucked economy.
Rejoining EU single market would not boost economic growth, says Labour leader
YES – IT ABSOLUTELY WOULD.
I love how we’re stuck with hard Brexit because it’s politically unpopular to tell Brexit voters they’re dumb
This guy agrees with everyone and has no real opinions it’s embarrassing how spineless he is
Blair is widely called a snake oil salesman but I couldn’t even see him being so blatantly dishonest on Brexit.
For fuck’s sake, guys. He just doesn’t want to turn the next election into Brexit Referendum MkIII. The Tories have won that fight every time we’ve had it, so he’s accepted the loss and moved on. You want Boris back? Because this is how you get him back in power.
Yes, we’d be better off in the single market. Yes, our economy is in the gutter thanks to Brexit. Yes, I hope we rejoin at some point.
But for the time being it’s electoral suicide to make the next election about Brexit. Again. We can repeat the same mistakes over and over again, or we can just try to make the best of it until there’s a healthy majority that would be willing to vote to rejoin.
Well, I don’t envy his position and I don’t think honesty and realism regarding Brexit would help his case.
As a politician he wants to be in a position where the voters are asking him to return to the market, rather than the other way around.
The “basic case” of Brexit is the fantasy that the UK can return to the glory times of colonialism / economic world domination – wealth through exploiting half the world, a concept that started to cease functioning like 30 years ago.
And this is what needs to be said more clearly.
And, to make no mistake, nearly every western european country was mostly the same – Germany, for instance, greatly profited from the Iron Curtain which would let cheap wares through and kept cheap labour out.
But these times are gone and the idea that the UK just needs to leave the EU to bring them back are childishly naive.
So the truth needs to be told: the UK is and will be poorer than 30 years ago and the old times will not come back. And the all deciding questions are who will weather most of the effects of dimishing wealth (right now: those that already didn’t have that much) and how the UK, as a society, wants to go into the future (right now: keeping the wealth of the upper crust at any and all costs).
This guy is doing one good thing. When the Tories win the next general election. It won’t be the English voter that is to blame. It will be the Labour leader.
In other news, a politician saying whatever they think will get them voted in.
He knows that there are way more red wall voters than there are remainers threatening to vote for the lib dems
This week has been an exercise in him telling people what they want to hear
Keir Starmer is like a really bland curry. And sadly he’s the only spicy thing on the menu right now. He desperately wants to appeal to EVERYONE, so he waters everything down so that it pleases NO ONE.
He is changing the narrative on brexit in a good way, driven by democratic deficiencies and hey here’s labour with an offer of a set of great democratic reforms. Now it’s labour who is delivering what brexiteers really wanted, whilst in the background also improving the deal to get better economic performance on top. Whilst the tories trashed the country and delivered nothing. As a remainer I’m happy with it. Rejoin can come in a later term.
I’m playing both sides so i always come out on top
> “They wanted more control over their lives, they wanted more control over their country. **They wanted to create opportunities for the next generation**, build communities they felt proud of, have public services they could rely on.
….and how the hell is brexit meant to do this?
And if you don’t like these principles, he’s got others.
I feel like I’m missing something that other people here are complaining about.
He’s clearly trying to distance himself from people who just shout that everyone who voted for Brexit was/is a racist.
That’s clearly a bigoted view because, shock, there’s not that many racists.
This is basically a politician saying he listened to the public but doesn’t agree with them all.
What do you want your representative to do?
SNP, Green, Plaid, and LibDems who are all pro-EU to varying degrees need to go for the jugular. Especially the LibDems, do to Starmer on Europe what Labour did to the LibDems regarding fees (Starmer was elected on a pro-EU platform).
Do to Labour what UKIP/BXP did to the Tories, the pro-EU / rejoin vote cannot be taken for granted.
I can deal with other policies I don’t like, but the relationship with the EU is a matter of principle now.
Shocl horror, politician can see both sides to an argument oh my god. Good for him
He’s going to end up with an arse full of splinters if he rides the fence any harder.
Is he being paid to fuck this up? Because it seems like he’s being laid to fuck this up.
Not that I like him, but I’d rather he talked about fulfilling the no hard borders within Ireland and allow more EU concessions for Scotland than going back in circles about rejoining the EU.
This sub is incredibly skewed in the popular vote on Brexit. Every day people post about how the majority want to rejoin the EU. None of that came to fruition when Corbyn went into election again and had a overwhelming loss. Disasterous campaign too if I remember. That was the second chance.
We need to fix the current issues to keep the rejoining open, but now isn’t the right time.
I don’t think he’s convincing anyone, which puts him in the interesting position of repelling both rejoiners and leavers.
How long till we back in the EU?
Shame that the 50s and over ruined it for us
And anyone who voted leave should have done the most basic of Google searches to see why it was a bad idea
Well they tried to avoid brexit last time and it lost them a monumental amount of seats,. Irregardless of what the 20 something London crowd think they cant push for rejoining
Spineless Keith strikes again. By aiming straight down the middle to try and appeal to as many as possible, what he ends up actually doing is making a mockery of the Labour Party and disenfranchising the working class. Diet Tory.
UK need to start aligning much more with the EU or it will lose its services industry in larger numbers. Portugal and now most recently Spain have both launched very appealing digital nomad visas aimed at stealing the UK service industry. I know a lot of people about to leave.
He’s got a plan of sorting something out, he won’t say what it is, because the Tories would jump on it and use it as there idea, ie keep your enemies close, but don’t let them know everything.
Surely all the pro EU supporters in this sub would voted for the Lib Dem’s or Greens instead of Labour, right?
The civil unrest that rejoining would cause might offset any economic gains.
I’m a total remainer, but we had a vote, and we got the result, and that is what has democratic legitimacy. To go against it would cause absolute uproar. We should totally rejoin, but it needs to be managed, and that means managing the public mood gradually, which is what I hope he is doing.
If he just said “yeah, we’ll rejoin as soon as I am in, and fuck the leave vote”, then the tories would attack him on it ruthlessly to up their chances of winning the election. And even if he still won, it would be a bitter dispute that would define his premiership and use up all his political capital, preventing him from being effective on any other reforms.
He has to abide by the referendum – at least he does right now
So do I though. Country’s been fucked for years and the regions have been left behind. That was the case, even if Brexit wasn’t the answer to that question. It’s quite uncontroversial, really. If you don’t agree with that, you might be from the home counties.
Just give us freedom of movement. I don’t give a shit about anything else just LET ME FUCKING LEAVE
This makes me not want to vote for him or labour, or anyone….
Just as opinion is starting to turn. Starmer nails his flag to the wrong mast. Fucking fantastic. Can’t wait for another Tory government. Choo choo.
I can’t endorse this man anymore. He wants to pander to the unfounded fantasies of the “little-englander” rather than offering sensible government.
It’s not just that he’s almost as bad as the Tories, it’s that he’s almost as bad as Boris Johnson.
Smart politics to not alienate a large portion of the electorate.
More important issues to focus on.
‘Here are my principles, if you don’t like them I have others.’
Imo he’s a stooge.
Blacken Corbyn’s name and install someone who is a closet Brexiteer. Job done.
Unless he’s playing it so the red wall Brexit voters will vote Labour, before then U-turning on this issue, nothing is going to change with a Labour government that’s not really a Labour government.
At this point we’re simply fucked.
Labour are so scared of telling the brexit loving loons that they were wrong. Even those that in 2019 voted for the tories because of brexit now realise that we’re all fucked if we don’t rejoin in some capacity.
Labour need to get in some easy wins before addressing it. There are so many relatively small things that need fixing that will have positive impacts across the country. Rejoining would take up years of political capital, time, and energy.
The working class argument was clear imo. It was that migration from the EU was suppressing wages in several fields and contributing to the race to the bottom that was skyrocketing inequality, as is the goal in globalisation/capitalism.
Imo, what they actually wanted and voted for was a reduction of the impact of globalisation on work in the UK, a slightly more protectionist approach, as they were slowly being bleed dry by it.
However, rather than, you know, simply changing employment laws to prevent exploitative practice, they suggested Brexit.
This sort of pro worker Brexit may have even been achieved if they had voted in the most anti capitalist Labour leader in a generation. However, they didn’t take into account/took for granted that the EU actually also assured them some work and quality of life protections FROM the worst effects of race to the bottom, so foolishly voted on the Conservatives to carry brexit out in 2019.
Naturally, freed from the obligations to these protections, the Conservatives will make an enormous amount of money by completely removing the brakes on the race to the bottom and nose diving working people’s qualities of life for profit. This has already been seen in the passed measures to NOT uphold EU environmental and employment standards.
The reality is, under globalisation they were screwed either way, but through Brexit they’ve voted for a nosedive in quality of living standards that takes everyone with them, whether they wanted to or not.
We’re all leavers now. I understand where he’s coming from and the reason to lean to this side of things. Kind of necessary really for someone to acknowledge the populist side of a broken argument. But it’s a fine line. He needs to be careful.
On the flipside, what does the average remainer want him to say/do? Saying he intends to re-join the single market and/or the EU and setting a timescale of 5-10 years will galvanise a significant portion of votes he’s currently courting back to the Tories and even other parties – which could cost him a majority, and with it, any chance of making real change.
The Tories will then most likely be back in power within a decade and we’ll have austerity 3.0 with the blame for it laid at the door of Labour and thus killing them off again until the mid 21st century.
Was thinking of voting Conservative next time out but Labour is certainly doing a good job at winning me over!
Starmer is playing the game. Most people slagging him off need to go back and look at the last election where labour were hammered. The last election one party went with brexit whole heartedly and came out with a huge amount of seats. Starmer has to talk this bollocks to win over die hard Brexiteers that are still living in cloudcookooland.
This is absolutely fine really. Isn’t that nuance guys? We need a labour government, we need leftwing politics back in this country even if in small form.
Today on r/uk, Keir Starmer courts potential voters by saying something either:
>Sensible
>Middle of the Road
>Diplomatic or Measured
And the comment section goes wild.
God I can’t wait for people to stop talking about Brexit.
Remainers act like no country survives outside of the EU. Brexiteers act like they won the World Cup. Just give it all a rest ffs
47 comments
Not sure how either side can take him seriously. Remain voters can see he is just pandering now to leave voters for votes. Brexit is done. Let’s stop talking about the mess and move forward please. Yes it was a terrible decision and one the electorate will pay for over generations, but the sooner we get away from tribal leave/remain split, the sooner we can talk about some important politics. Like our starving children, underfunded healthcare, polluted cities and fucked economy.
Rejoining EU single market would not boost economic growth, says Labour leader
YES – IT ABSOLUTELY WOULD.
I love how we’re stuck with hard Brexit because it’s politically unpopular to tell Brexit voters they’re dumb
This guy agrees with everyone and has no real opinions it’s embarrassing how spineless he is
Blair is widely called a snake oil salesman but I couldn’t even see him being so blatantly dishonest on Brexit.
For fuck’s sake, guys. He just doesn’t want to turn the next election into Brexit Referendum MkIII. The Tories have won that fight every time we’ve had it, so he’s accepted the loss and moved on. You want Boris back? Because this is how you get him back in power.
Yes, we’d be better off in the single market. Yes, our economy is in the gutter thanks to Brexit. Yes, I hope we rejoin at some point.
But for the time being it’s electoral suicide to make the next election about Brexit. Again. We can repeat the same mistakes over and over again, or we can just try to make the best of it until there’s a healthy majority that would be willing to vote to rejoin.
Well, I don’t envy his position and I don’t think honesty and realism regarding Brexit would help his case.
As a politician he wants to be in a position where the voters are asking him to return to the market, rather than the other way around.
The “basic case” of Brexit is the fantasy that the UK can return to the glory times of colonialism / economic world domination – wealth through exploiting half the world, a concept that started to cease functioning like 30 years ago.
And this is what needs to be said more clearly.
And, to make no mistake, nearly every western european country was mostly the same – Germany, for instance, greatly profited from the Iron Curtain which would let cheap wares through and kept cheap labour out.
But these times are gone and the idea that the UK just needs to leave the EU to bring them back are childishly naive.
So the truth needs to be told: the UK is and will be poorer than 30 years ago and the old times will not come back. And the all deciding questions are who will weather most of the effects of dimishing wealth (right now: those that already didn’t have that much) and how the UK, as a society, wants to go into the future (right now: keeping the wealth of the upper crust at any and all costs).
This guy is doing one good thing. When the Tories win the next general election. It won’t be the English voter that is to blame. It will be the Labour leader.
In other news, a politician saying whatever they think will get them voted in.
He knows that there are way more red wall voters than there are remainers threatening to vote for the lib dems
This week has been an exercise in him telling people what they want to hear
Keir Starmer is like a really bland curry. And sadly he’s the only spicy thing on the menu right now. He desperately wants to appeal to EVERYONE, so he waters everything down so that it pleases NO ONE.
He is changing the narrative on brexit in a good way, driven by democratic deficiencies and hey here’s labour with an offer of a set of great democratic reforms. Now it’s labour who is delivering what brexiteers really wanted, whilst in the background also improving the deal to get better economic performance on top. Whilst the tories trashed the country and delivered nothing. As a remainer I’m happy with it. Rejoin can come in a later term.
I’m playing both sides so i always come out on top
> “They wanted more control over their lives, they wanted more control over their country. **They wanted to create opportunities for the next generation**, build communities they felt proud of, have public services they could rely on.
….and how the hell is brexit meant to do this?
And if you don’t like these principles, he’s got others.
I feel like I’m missing something that other people here are complaining about.
He’s clearly trying to distance himself from people who just shout that everyone who voted for Brexit was/is a racist.
That’s clearly a bigoted view because, shock, there’s not that many racists.
This is basically a politician saying he listened to the public but doesn’t agree with them all.
What do you want your representative to do?
SNP, Green, Plaid, and LibDems who are all pro-EU to varying degrees need to go for the jugular. Especially the LibDems, do to Starmer on Europe what Labour did to the LibDems regarding fees (Starmer was elected on a pro-EU platform).
Do to Labour what UKIP/BXP did to the Tories, the pro-EU / rejoin vote cannot be taken for granted.
I can deal with other policies I don’t like, but the relationship with the EU is a matter of principle now.
Shocl horror, politician can see both sides to an argument oh my god. Good for him
He’s going to end up with an arse full of splinters if he rides the fence any harder.
Is he being paid to fuck this up? Because it seems like he’s being laid to fuck this up.
Not that I like him, but I’d rather he talked about fulfilling the no hard borders within Ireland and allow more EU concessions for Scotland than going back in circles about rejoining the EU.
This sub is incredibly skewed in the popular vote on Brexit. Every day people post about how the majority want to rejoin the EU. None of that came to fruition when Corbyn went into election again and had a overwhelming loss. Disasterous campaign too if I remember. That was the second chance.
We need to fix the current issues to keep the rejoining open, but now isn’t the right time.
I don’t think he’s convincing anyone, which puts him in the interesting position of repelling both rejoiners and leavers.
How long till we back in the EU?
Shame that the 50s and over ruined it for us
And anyone who voted leave should have done the most basic of Google searches to see why it was a bad idea
Well they tried to avoid brexit last time and it lost them a monumental amount of seats,. Irregardless of what the 20 something London crowd think they cant push for rejoining
Spineless Keith strikes again. By aiming straight down the middle to try and appeal to as many as possible, what he ends up actually doing is making a mockery of the Labour Party and disenfranchising the working class. Diet Tory.
UK need to start aligning much more with the EU or it will lose its services industry in larger numbers. Portugal and now most recently Spain have both launched very appealing digital nomad visas aimed at stealing the UK service industry. I know a lot of people about to leave.
He’s got a plan of sorting something out, he won’t say what it is, because the Tories would jump on it and use it as there idea, ie keep your enemies close, but don’t let them know everything.
Surely all the pro EU supporters in this sub would voted for the Lib Dem’s or Greens instead of Labour, right?
The civil unrest that rejoining would cause might offset any economic gains.
I’m a total remainer, but we had a vote, and we got the result, and that is what has democratic legitimacy. To go against it would cause absolute uproar. We should totally rejoin, but it needs to be managed, and that means managing the public mood gradually, which is what I hope he is doing.
If he just said “yeah, we’ll rejoin as soon as I am in, and fuck the leave vote”, then the tories would attack him on it ruthlessly to up their chances of winning the election. And even if he still won, it would be a bitter dispute that would define his premiership and use up all his political capital, preventing him from being effective on any other reforms.
He has to abide by the referendum – at least he does right now
So do I though. Country’s been fucked for years and the regions have been left behind. That was the case, even if Brexit wasn’t the answer to that question. It’s quite uncontroversial, really. If you don’t agree with that, you might be from the home counties.
Just give us freedom of movement. I don’t give a shit about anything else just LET ME FUCKING LEAVE
This makes me not want to vote for him or labour, or anyone….
Just as opinion is starting to turn. Starmer nails his flag to the wrong mast. Fucking fantastic. Can’t wait for another Tory government. Choo choo.
I can’t endorse this man anymore. He wants to pander to the unfounded fantasies of the “little-englander” rather than offering sensible government.
It’s not just that he’s almost as bad as the Tories, it’s that he’s almost as bad as Boris Johnson.
Smart politics to not alienate a large portion of the electorate.
More important issues to focus on.
‘Here are my principles, if you don’t like them I have others.’
Imo he’s a stooge.
Blacken Corbyn’s name and install someone who is a closet Brexiteer. Job done.
Unless he’s playing it so the red wall Brexit voters will vote Labour, before then U-turning on this issue, nothing is going to change with a Labour government that’s not really a Labour government.
At this point we’re simply fucked.
Labour are so scared of telling the brexit loving loons that they were wrong. Even those that in 2019 voted for the tories because of brexit now realise that we’re all fucked if we don’t rejoin in some capacity.
Labour need to get in some easy wins before addressing it. There are so many relatively small things that need fixing that will have positive impacts across the country. Rejoining would take up years of political capital, time, and energy.
The working class argument was clear imo. It was that migration from the EU was suppressing wages in several fields and contributing to the race to the bottom that was skyrocketing inequality, as is the goal in globalisation/capitalism.
Imo, what they actually wanted and voted for was a reduction of the impact of globalisation on work in the UK, a slightly more protectionist approach, as they were slowly being bleed dry by it.
However, rather than, you know, simply changing employment laws to prevent exploitative practice, they suggested Brexit.
This sort of pro worker Brexit may have even been achieved if they had voted in the most anti capitalist Labour leader in a generation. However, they didn’t take into account/took for granted that the EU actually also assured them some work and quality of life protections FROM the worst effects of race to the bottom, so foolishly voted on the Conservatives to carry brexit out in 2019.
Naturally, freed from the obligations to these protections, the Conservatives will make an enormous amount of money by completely removing the brakes on the race to the bottom and nose diving working people’s qualities of life for profit. This has already been seen in the passed measures to NOT uphold EU environmental and employment standards.
The reality is, under globalisation they were screwed either way, but through Brexit they’ve voted for a nosedive in quality of living standards that takes everyone with them, whether they wanted to or not.
We’re all leavers now. I understand where he’s coming from and the reason to lean to this side of things. Kind of necessary really for someone to acknowledge the populist side of a broken argument. But it’s a fine line. He needs to be careful.
On the flipside, what does the average remainer want him to say/do? Saying he intends to re-join the single market and/or the EU and setting a timescale of 5-10 years will galvanise a significant portion of votes he’s currently courting back to the Tories and even other parties – which could cost him a majority, and with it, any chance of making real change.
The Tories will then most likely be back in power within a decade and we’ll have austerity 3.0 with the blame for it laid at the door of Labour and thus killing them off again until the mid 21st century.
Was thinking of voting Conservative next time out but Labour is certainly doing a good job at winning me over!
Starmer is playing the game. Most people slagging him off need to go back and look at the last election where labour were hammered. The last election one party went with brexit whole heartedly and came out with a huge amount of seats. Starmer has to talk this bollocks to win over die hard Brexiteers that are still living in cloudcookooland.
This is absolutely fine really. Isn’t that nuance guys? We need a labour government, we need leftwing politics back in this country even if in small form.
Today on r/uk, Keir Starmer courts potential voters by saying something either:
>Sensible
>Middle of the Road
>Diplomatic or Measured
And the comment section goes wild.
God I can’t wait for people to stop talking about Brexit.
Remainers act like no country survives outside of the EU. Brexiteers act like they won the World Cup. Just give it all a rest ffs