Ah yes – “ I’m offended by people mentioning facts to my face” argument . She knows she must lose weight but gets upset on tone ? NHS is not a gym- so forgive me if she was expecting weight management tips.
Doctor told me to lose my weight many times to reduce risk; how are IVF different?
I have to say she seems like an intelligent and articulate woman, I’m not quite getting why she would want weight loss advice from a gynaecologist rather than her GP, a service she is more than capable of accessing.
We did IVF, and yeah we had to lose weight. No we weren’t obese, either of us, but the odds are heavily in favour with a healthy weight and fitness level, we also radically changed out diet and lifestyle and a hundred tiny other things. Because they all work, there’s solid science behind them and yeah it sucks but then IVF is a truly fucking horrible process at the best of times and brings a level of mental stress that’s off the fucking charts to most couples.
We were “lucky” in the end but we worked really
Damn hard for a really long time to help that luck
IVF science isn’t a miracle, it’s evidence based and hard won and there’s absolutely rock solid evidence that your weight plays a massive factor on success rates
So if you want it to have a better chance of working lose fucking weight and yeah it sucks but so does needing IVF in the bloody first place
I’ve zero sympathy when it comes to situations like this, this isn’t someone being cruel, it’s someone giving the best advice they can to be able to help the most and give the best chance to someone who’s already desperate and seeking help
You don’t need to like the advice but you do need to follow it
As for guidance on how, sod off, there’s a million different ways that work and no end of ways of finding out how, every nhs has clinics and courses to help people as well if it comes to it
And yeah it really is as simple as eat less, do more. Regardless of other considerations if you eat less and do more you will lose weight to one degree or another, everything on top of that basic principle is fine tuning and mental help to keep it off but it’s really bloody simple at it’s core.
Sounds like she’s already tried consuming helium to lose weight; without success.
It’s not the fertility clinic’s place to be able to offer help on weight loss, she needs to see her gp or related services for that. This whole piece is a nothing-burger.
Genuine question, can NHS refuse relevant treatment if the patient refuses to give up smoking?
I have a friend who was refused an op on the NHS unless he got below a certain weight, they insisted it was a safety guideline set in stone for that specific treatment.
Just wondering how patient demands are balanced against medical wisdom in this day and age.
I think this is a misnomer of an article.
The problem isn’t really specific to IVF, even though that’s the reason losing weight is being advised.
The problem is that our entire approach to helping people lose weight is ineffective. A lot of people have undiagnosed eating disorders, and the overwhelming majority have *tried* losing weight. At a macro level, we know how to lose weight, yet we still struggle. What a lot of people really need is REBT or CBT to understand why their eating habits are the way they are and why they’re hard to change.
To give an example, I was brought up to always finish the food on my plate, because when I was growing up food was more scarce, and previous generations even grew up during rationing where this was practically a survival mechanism. But now, as an adult, I still have it in my mind that I should clear a plate, even though I’m often full, or at least, no longer hungry. That’s a habit that takes time to change. And if behaviours aren’t changed in sustainable ways, that’s when we have a generation of people dieting then putting on weight then dieting then putting on weight.
And of course the first time people go to their GPs to discuss it, they get first tier advice they probably already know – eat less, exercise more, drink water, eat veg, fiber and protein are filling, cut down on takeaways. So they go home and spend months being too embarrassed to go back so soon and say they’re still struggling.
The whole approach needs changing.
Until then, I can’t see IVF weight loss advice getting any better than advice from the GP.
Why should tax payers waste money funding a treatment with a subpar success rate for people who are unwilling to put in the most basic of effort to increase their chances?
It’s not an insult to be told you are overweight from a medical professional. It’s an observation, and an entirely relative one at that.
‘Dee Montague-Coast says women are often blamed for not looking after themselves’
I didn’t think the BBC would be putting forward views that imply women should be looked after and others be responsible for them instead.
How is she a university lecturer (Conveniently they don’t mention what uni) and doesn’t understand simple science? Especially considering it’s NHS and not private- it costs them more and puts the patient at a bad place mentally if they keep having miscarriages.
Why do you need help and support to lose weight ? You’ve been trying for a bairn for a few years so clearly dedicated and it’s clearly something important so surly you can use that same determination to eat less and move more.
It’s physics you place yourself in a calorie deficit you lose weight as you expend more energy than you take in.
I’m getting arthritis in my feet and it’s bloody painful. Was referred by my GP (after a written motivation by me and a video call) to a specialist – who amazingly I saw within a week – and was told “before we do anything else lose 20kg !” and basically told me to bugger off and come back when I had. I didn’t feel attacked, nor did I feel it was his job to tell me how. There are resources galore to achieve this and that’s what I’m doing. This person’s story is the non story of the decade 🧐
I have a friend who can’t get IVF because she’s really muscular, she’s had to cut right down to a frankly unhealthy weight just to get the IVF clinic not to classify her as obese
I don’t think it’s as much in the losing weight but the tones used. Many health professionals, while completely justified, can be blunt. When I was 15, a doctor pulled out weighing scales and said something along the lines of: ‘you are a very fat person, I don’t need to see the numbers to know that’. While he was obviously right, it did leave me with years of body image/self-confidence issues.
That all being said, if they bring it up, it’s all said for a reason: your health is obviously at risk/is suffering.
Really tricky topic- BMI over 30 in women is something like a 25% reduction in success rates, our IVF clinic was something like 39% success per cycle. That’s a massive reduction, and I’d have literally killed for a 25% increase. Unfairly, weight on men is less significant, and ICSI will counter most of the lowered sperm mobility.
That said, looking weight is really hard, and the longer it takes the less eggs are left. I think a lot of people significantly misunderstand how hard it is for some people to loose weight, and you can see how “helpful” a lot of the advice is from some of the other comments. Combined with the pressures of IVF, its an eating disorder minefield – you must eat less to have the baby you want? I can only imagine how that might impact, and the disordered eating that could follow.
Ultimately, its a really hard struggle on top of a really difficult situation, but the evidence shows its warranted- and with only two cycles on the NHS in my area, I would not want to be taking it with low odds.
The word here is choice, good or bad people make choices and there are consequences. You can’t blame the health service for the consequences of those choices. Also it is common knowledge the heavier you are the more difficult it is to become pregnant why now in the age of the internet is this offensive! Maybe more of this outrage should be flowing towards the ineffective educational system that is pumping out young adults who have little to no basic knowledge understanding and are offended by simple facts that you learned in biology
Being fat has been normalised, so of course some people will be offended if they’re told it’s a problem.
My wife has always had physical jobs, but her hormonal issues have given her an overhang she walks miles every day, joined slimming world, but can’t get down to 12 stone, when she was 13 she was dealing with heavy flow and doctors said it’ll settle down, when she was 18 doctors prescribed her an implant that would regulate her hormones, when she had it put in the nurse didn’t believe she WASN’T sexually active and gave her the contraceptive version that didn’t help her, she discovered this when a doctor removed it a few years later after her weight had blown up to 18 stone he told her and she was rather angry.
So what SHOULD be done is DOCTORS should have the sensitivity training and nurses should do what’s on the forms that they are given.
Nurses shouldn’t be able to Ask Questions, Give Advice, ANYTHING like that.
I have a big family (mum is one of 13) and the worst experiences they have are with nurses that THINK they’re doctors.
They are experienced, but they’re NOT doctors.
It goes both ways, we were told to put on weight. It’s amazing how much fertility increased!
We need to be able to tell each other we are overweight without that being considered taboo, otherwise we’ll end up living the future Wall-e predicted.
I was upset when I went to my local gym for IVF advice and they wouldn’t help me, they said they only really did weight loss and fitness?
It’s pretty obvious. Fertility is proportional to health and fitness. If someone is serious about it they’ll make sure they’re doing everything they can to be fit and a healthy weight. If they can’t even take that step they should not be eligible for fertility treatment.
If it’s NHS funded IVF then they are entirely correct to advise you to lose weight to give the tax payer funded treatment you are getting the best chance of success.
Well he should have referred her to somebody who can help which would be the normal course of action.
I guess he is just pissed off at people turning up with fertility issues when they have not done anything themselves to try and increase the probability of getting pregnant. they were probably like “WTF, why are you wasting my time”.
See alot of comments on here saying well if you know you’re fat then loose weight but I have actual experience with this.
I have had 8 miscarriages and 1 healthy baby in-between.
I have had miscarriages when I was a healthy bmi and have had them when I was classed as obese with bmi(not morbidly but probably around 3/4 stone overweoght). Currently I am somewhere inbeerween as overweight. However, the consultant I speak to has done nearly no tests on me and has consistently told me to loose weight and thinks this is my issue.
Women are constantly told to loose weight before anything is done to help them. I put on alot of weight from anti depressants and overeating due to depression following my miscarriages.
Noone is here to help, only to criticise. NHS is not bothered, and I haven’t heard from my consultant in months. Only question he lingers around when I have spoken to him (which has only ever been over the phone) is my weight. I’ve never seen him in person, he only knows a figure.
EDIT just to clarify I am not saying people going through IVF should not be trying to loose weight they 100% should and if I were to ever consider IVF I would prioritise weight loss alot more. Just wanted to make the point that as a women its the first thing that’s pushed to you and like other people have mentioned they go by BMI which is highly unreliable.
A fact upsetting you doesn’t mean we should ban the communication of that fact, it means you should try to work on your ability to deal with (potentially hurtful) realities.
Yeah, they can. It’s medical advice aimed at giving you a better chance to conceive and have less complications.
People need to grow the fuck up. I’ve been fat and I’ve been very fit. I can tell you which was healthier.
If the IVF clinic was accepting people with BMI of 36 they could just as easily get reprimanded for endangering health or taking peoples money with v low chance of success neither of which are peak ethics.
They should probably have recommended her speak to a specialist about weight loss if she was struggling with it but they are an IVF practice not a weight loss practice so it doesn’t seem that unreasonable what they did.
My wife did IVF and it’s not easy even when you start off in good shape.
She says in the video that she was sad and disappointed that they just told her to lose weight and that they didn’t explore the issues why she was overweight, like the fact she has endometriosis, a chronic pain condition and mental health issues… Like, it’s an IVF clinic, what do you want them to do, act as your GP? Some people just have completely unrealistic expectations.
The problem is when the condition you have that requires ivf, is also the condition that causes weight issues. PCOS for one. You can lose weight but it’s often bloody difficult and just saying ‘lose weight’ with no help available really isn’t helpful.
Can we not start this .U.S. style emotionally oversensitive, “body positivity” nonsense over here please? Fat people are unhealthy and need to lose weight, that is not an opinion it’s a verified fact.
Imagine wanting help but not being willing to help yourself.
Double edged sword. On one hand weight can be a very relevant factor in health, on the other hand many doctors do blame that too easily.
34 comments
Ah yes – “ I’m offended by people mentioning facts to my face” argument . She knows she must lose weight but gets upset on tone ? NHS is not a gym- so forgive me if she was expecting weight management tips.
Doctor told me to lose my weight many times to reduce risk; how are IVF different?
I have to say she seems like an intelligent and articulate woman, I’m not quite getting why she would want weight loss advice from a gynaecologist rather than her GP, a service she is more than capable of accessing.
We did IVF, and yeah we had to lose weight. No we weren’t obese, either of us, but the odds are heavily in favour with a healthy weight and fitness level, we also radically changed out diet and lifestyle and a hundred tiny other things. Because they all work, there’s solid science behind them and yeah it sucks but then IVF is a truly fucking horrible process at the best of times and brings a level of mental stress that’s off the fucking charts to most couples.
We were “lucky” in the end but we worked really
Damn hard for a really long time to help that luck
IVF science isn’t a miracle, it’s evidence based and hard won and there’s absolutely rock solid evidence that your weight plays a massive factor on success rates
So if you want it to have a better chance of working lose fucking weight and yeah it sucks but so does needing IVF in the bloody first place
I’ve zero sympathy when it comes to situations like this, this isn’t someone being cruel, it’s someone giving the best advice they can to be able to help the most and give the best chance to someone who’s already desperate and seeking help
You don’t need to like the advice but you do need to follow it
As for guidance on how, sod off, there’s a million different ways that work and no end of ways of finding out how, every nhs has clinics and courses to help people as well if it comes to it
And yeah it really is as simple as eat less, do more. Regardless of other considerations if you eat less and do more you will lose weight to one degree or another, everything on top of that basic principle is fine tuning and mental help to keep it off but it’s really bloody simple at it’s core.
Sounds like she’s already tried consuming helium to lose weight; without success.
It’s not the fertility clinic’s place to be able to offer help on weight loss, she needs to see her gp or related services for that. This whole piece is a nothing-burger.
Genuine question, can NHS refuse relevant treatment if the patient refuses to give up smoking?
I have a friend who was refused an op on the NHS unless he got below a certain weight, they insisted it was a safety guideline set in stone for that specific treatment.
Just wondering how patient demands are balanced against medical wisdom in this day and age.
I think this is a misnomer of an article.
The problem isn’t really specific to IVF, even though that’s the reason losing weight is being advised.
The problem is that our entire approach to helping people lose weight is ineffective. A lot of people have undiagnosed eating disorders, and the overwhelming majority have *tried* losing weight. At a macro level, we know how to lose weight, yet we still struggle. What a lot of people really need is REBT or CBT to understand why their eating habits are the way they are and why they’re hard to change.
To give an example, I was brought up to always finish the food on my plate, because when I was growing up food was more scarce, and previous generations even grew up during rationing where this was practically a survival mechanism. But now, as an adult, I still have it in my mind that I should clear a plate, even though I’m often full, or at least, no longer hungry. That’s a habit that takes time to change. And if behaviours aren’t changed in sustainable ways, that’s when we have a generation of people dieting then putting on weight then dieting then putting on weight.
And of course the first time people go to their GPs to discuss it, they get first tier advice they probably already know – eat less, exercise more, drink water, eat veg, fiber and protein are filling, cut down on takeaways. So they go home and spend months being too embarrassed to go back so soon and say they’re still struggling.
The whole approach needs changing.
Until then, I can’t see IVF weight loss advice getting any better than advice from the GP.
Why should tax payers waste money funding a treatment with a subpar success rate for people who are unwilling to put in the most basic of effort to increase their chances?
It’s not an insult to be told you are overweight from a medical professional. It’s an observation, and an entirely relative one at that.
‘Dee Montague-Coast says women are often blamed for not looking after themselves’
I didn’t think the BBC would be putting forward views that imply women should be looked after and others be responsible for them instead.
How is she a university lecturer (Conveniently they don’t mention what uni) and doesn’t understand simple science? Especially considering it’s NHS and not private- it costs them more and puts the patient at a bad place mentally if they keep having miscarriages.
Why do you need help and support to lose weight ? You’ve been trying for a bairn for a few years so clearly dedicated and it’s clearly something important so surly you can use that same determination to eat less and move more.
It’s physics you place yourself in a calorie deficit you lose weight as you expend more energy than you take in.
I’m getting arthritis in my feet and it’s bloody painful. Was referred by my GP (after a written motivation by me and a video call) to a specialist – who amazingly I saw within a week – and was told “before we do anything else lose 20kg !” and basically told me to bugger off and come back when I had. I didn’t feel attacked, nor did I feel it was his job to tell me how. There are resources galore to achieve this and that’s what I’m doing. This person’s story is the non story of the decade 🧐
I have a friend who can’t get IVF because she’s really muscular, she’s had to cut right down to a frankly unhealthy weight just to get the IVF clinic not to classify her as obese
I don’t think it’s as much in the losing weight but the tones used. Many health professionals, while completely justified, can be blunt. When I was 15, a doctor pulled out weighing scales and said something along the lines of: ‘you are a very fat person, I don’t need to see the numbers to know that’. While he was obviously right, it did leave me with years of body image/self-confidence issues.
That all being said, if they bring it up, it’s all said for a reason: your health is obviously at risk/is suffering.
Really tricky topic- BMI over 30 in women is something like a 25% reduction in success rates, our IVF clinic was something like 39% success per cycle. That’s a massive reduction, and I’d have literally killed for a 25% increase. Unfairly, weight on men is less significant, and ICSI will counter most of the lowered sperm mobility.
That said, looking weight is really hard, and the longer it takes the less eggs are left. I think a lot of people significantly misunderstand how hard it is for some people to loose weight, and you can see how “helpful” a lot of the advice is from some of the other comments. Combined with the pressures of IVF, its an eating disorder minefield – you must eat less to have the baby you want? I can only imagine how that might impact, and the disordered eating that could follow.
Ultimately, its a really hard struggle on top of a really difficult situation, but the evidence shows its warranted- and with only two cycles on the NHS in my area, I would not want to be taking it with low odds.
The word here is choice, good or bad people make choices and there are consequences. You can’t blame the health service for the consequences of those choices. Also it is common knowledge the heavier you are the more difficult it is to become pregnant why now in the age of the internet is this offensive! Maybe more of this outrage should be flowing towards the ineffective educational system that is pumping out young adults who have little to no basic knowledge understanding and are offended by simple facts that you learned in biology
Being fat has been normalised, so of course some people will be offended if they’re told it’s a problem.
My wife has always had physical jobs, but her hormonal issues have given her an overhang she walks miles every day, joined slimming world, but can’t get down to 12 stone, when she was 13 she was dealing with heavy flow and doctors said it’ll settle down, when she was 18 doctors prescribed her an implant that would regulate her hormones, when she had it put in the nurse didn’t believe she WASN’T sexually active and gave her the contraceptive version that didn’t help her, she discovered this when a doctor removed it a few years later after her weight had blown up to 18 stone he told her and she was rather angry.
So what SHOULD be done is DOCTORS should have the sensitivity training and nurses should do what’s on the forms that they are given.
Nurses shouldn’t be able to Ask Questions, Give Advice, ANYTHING like that.
I have a big family (mum is one of 13) and the worst experiences they have are with nurses that THINK they’re doctors.
They are experienced, but they’re NOT doctors.
It goes both ways, we were told to put on weight. It’s amazing how much fertility increased!
We need to be able to tell each other we are overweight without that being considered taboo, otherwise we’ll end up living the future Wall-e predicted.
I was upset when I went to my local gym for IVF advice and they wouldn’t help me, they said they only really did weight loss and fitness?
It’s pretty obvious. Fertility is proportional to health and fitness. If someone is serious about it they’ll make sure they’re doing everything they can to be fit and a healthy weight. If they can’t even take that step they should not be eligible for fertility treatment.
If it’s NHS funded IVF then they are entirely correct to advise you to lose weight to give the tax payer funded treatment you are getting the best chance of success.
Well he should have referred her to somebody who can help which would be the normal course of action.
I guess he is just pissed off at people turning up with fertility issues when they have not done anything themselves to try and increase the probability of getting pregnant. they were probably like “WTF, why are you wasting my time”.
See alot of comments on here saying well if you know you’re fat then loose weight but I have actual experience with this.
I have had 8 miscarriages and 1 healthy baby in-between.
I have had miscarriages when I was a healthy bmi and have had them when I was classed as obese with bmi(not morbidly but probably around 3/4 stone overweoght). Currently I am somewhere inbeerween as overweight. However, the consultant I speak to has done nearly no tests on me and has consistently told me to loose weight and thinks this is my issue.
Women are constantly told to loose weight before anything is done to help them. I put on alot of weight from anti depressants and overeating due to depression following my miscarriages.
Noone is here to help, only to criticise. NHS is not bothered, and I haven’t heard from my consultant in months. Only question he lingers around when I have spoken to him (which has only ever been over the phone) is my weight. I’ve never seen him in person, he only knows a figure.
EDIT just to clarify I am not saying people going through IVF should not be trying to loose weight they 100% should and if I were to ever consider IVF I would prioritise weight loss alot more. Just wanted to make the point that as a women its the first thing that’s pushed to you and like other people have mentioned they go by BMI which is highly unreliable.
A fact upsetting you doesn’t mean we should ban the communication of that fact, it means you should try to work on your ability to deal with (potentially hurtful) realities.
Yeah, they can. It’s medical advice aimed at giving you a better chance to conceive and have less complications.
People need to grow the fuck up. I’ve been fat and I’ve been very fit. I can tell you which was healthier.
If the IVF clinic was accepting people with BMI of 36 they could just as easily get reprimanded for endangering health or taking peoples money with v low chance of success neither of which are peak ethics.
They should probably have recommended her speak to a specialist about weight loss if she was struggling with it but they are an IVF practice not a weight loss practice so it doesn’t seem that unreasonable what they did.
My wife did IVF and it’s not easy even when you start off in good shape.
She says in the video that she was sad and disappointed that they just told her to lose weight and that they didn’t explore the issues why she was overweight, like the fact she has endometriosis, a chronic pain condition and mental health issues… Like, it’s an IVF clinic, what do you want them to do, act as your GP? Some people just have completely unrealistic expectations.
The problem is when the condition you have that requires ivf, is also the condition that causes weight issues. PCOS for one. You can lose weight but it’s often bloody difficult and just saying ‘lose weight’ with no help available really isn’t helpful.
Can we not start this .U.S. style emotionally oversensitive, “body positivity” nonsense over here please? Fat people are unhealthy and need to lose weight, that is not an opinion it’s a verified fact.
Imagine wanting help but not being willing to help yourself.
Double edged sword. On one hand weight can be a very relevant factor in health, on the other hand many doctors do blame that too easily.