tldr: I’m moving to Berlin one way or another. In only 3 months, I can go to a (very) expensive private school that teaches in my native tongue, English, or I can take a year, do an intensive language program in Berlin, hopefully pass a test, and hopefully get into a free German University, all in maybe 18 months time. What would you choose?
First, I have to thank u/thewindinthewillows and u/staplehill for all their help. None of this would have been possible without both of you and I am extremely grateful.Here’s a link to my [Original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/yr6siy/iwantout_26m_student_usa_berlin_germany/).
So I finally did it. My perfect \*Plan A\* has come to fruition.
I have officially been accepted to the International School of Management in Berlin. I have studied German like crazy these past 60ish days and tested at a B1 level on December 16th. My lease is up in March, and my work contract is up in late February. My ISM program would begin on the 13th of March. Everything is lining up perfectly, except…
I am strongly reconsidering this path. I reread u/staplehill ‘s comment on my original post.
>It would be a lot cheaper to come to Germany for a year on a language learner visa, attend a language course to get your German up to C1, and then study for a German-taught tuition-free degree at a public university [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/types/other/language-acquisition](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/types/other/language-acquisition)
Their idea is becoming more and more attractive as I am adding ISM’s private university costs. Without small fees which I am sure will add up quickly, my acceptance email states as follows:
>**Bachelor fee structure:**
>
>Before arrival on campus:
>
>Deposit: 3,000 € (refundable with the 1st semester)
>
>After arrival on campus:
>
>Enrolment fee: 1,500 € (non-refundable)
>
>Tuition fee\*: 34,200 € (1st semester: 5,700 €, 2nd semester: 5,700 €, 3rd semester: 5,700 €, 4th semester: 5,700 €, 5th semester: 5,700 €, 6th semester: 5,700 €)
>
>Semester ticket (free use of public transportation): 1,800 € (300 € per semester)
>
>Total fee: 40,500 € (-3,000 € deposit) = **37,500 €**
>
>The German Embassy requests to open a **block account** with the amount of **11,208 €** for the **visa process**. This amount will be paid back in monthly instalments (934 € per month) during your first year of studies at ISM. We recommend to open this block account through FINTIBA ([https://www.fintiba.com/what-is-a-blocked-account/](https://www.fintiba.com/what-is-a-blocked-account/)) or Expatrio ([https://www.expatrio.com/products/blocked-account/exploration](https://www.expatrio.com/products/blocked-account/exploration)).
>
>Living costs including housing and food would be approx. 1,200 € per month.
So yeah. From what I have gathered on Reddit and other forums, a native German would balk at the idea of going to university for 37500 €. While that number seems reasonable or even low from my American standards, I understand that this might be a rather unjustifiable number that takes advantage of my ignorance and immigrant vulnerability. And let’s face it, 0 (well… about 280 x 3 €) is a whole lot less than 37500 €. From r/germany’s subbar:
>Private universities, with the exception of a handful of well-regarded business schools, have a somewhat dubious reputation in Germany – they are seen as places where people pay for a degree which they would have been unable to get at a public university (presumably because they were not bright or hardworking enough). While degrees from most private universities are fully accredited, employers will likely question why the candidate didn’t get their degree from a public university instead.
>
>Private universities which teach in English and copy many of the trappings of American universities (such as mandatory on-campus housing) are the worst offenders – they are seen as a trap to fleece ignorant foreigners.
So here I am at the great divide. I have what I have been working for for so long, yet now that I look at it, it might not be as great a bet as I imagined. So this \*plan B\* would be,
1. find an intensive language school
2. get a language learning visa
3. move to Berlin3.5) hopefully find a job that doesn’t mind my B1 level
4. pass my TestDaF or Goethe Institute German Language Diploma (GDS)
5. pass my Deutsche Sprachprüfung für den Hochschulzugang (DSH) for university
6. apply for my student visa
7. go back to america until I get my student visa
8. hopefully get into a university I like in Berlin
9. move back to Berlin and begin my studies
This whole process will take a minimum of a year, probably closer to 18 months. At earliest, I probably would be beginning my actual studies Winter semester 2024 at age 28 and a half. 6 semesters later I’ll be 31, and a possible masters later, I’ll be 33. As I have heard from many people now, this is not uncommon in Germany, as many people take advantage of free education and go later in life and multiple times. (although, I’ve been told that in general, Germans have more degrees because of this, rather than my mere bachelors).
So that’s the long and short of it. Only thing holding me back from going with Plan B is that it feels like a gamble. I have a bird in the hand right now, and instead I am going to put it on the line to save money. My language learning abilities are not exactly my strongest suit. These last 8 weeks or so has been the most foreign language I have ever learned, despite both studying Spanish in high school and living in Thailand. I am fearful that I won’t be ready for my exams at the end of the program and I will have to devote even more time. With ISM this is a non-concern, as the program is taught in English, with an intensive German course on the side. I also am reluctant to wait even longer to get my career on the road. Despite 31 being an acceptable age to enter your career in Germany, to me it already feels so late. I could be studying at ISM in less than 3 months.
So what would you do? Expensive bird in the hand versus a cheaper, maybe cooler bird in the bush. I have to accept or deny ISM’s offer by the **3rd** **of January 2023.**
​
So here is my pro and con list:
|International School of Management|1 Year Language Learning Visa|
|:-|:-|
|*+* I’ve already been accepted. The struggle is almost halfway done.|*-* I know little about this path. I have much work and research ahead of me to even get the ball rolling.|
|*+* The education is taught in English. This might be helpful for the complicated topics I want to study, Economics and Finance.|*-* I have to trust my future German abilities to be strong enough to read and write complicated academic papers.|
|*+* ISM’s German Intensive Language program seems to be quite rigorous. They claim they can get a student from A1 to C1 in 6 semesters.|*+* Learning my education in German might be helpful, as I intend to work in these fields in Germany.|
||*-* School rankings are not as pertinent in Germany. I have already had trouble determining German schools’ worth, but I will have an even harder time in German. See [https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/studying/general#wiki\_rankings](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/studying/general#wiki_rankings). (1/2)|
|*+* ISM seems to be consistently ranked around the low 40’s in international rankings. To me this seems pretty good, but again, rankings do not hold as much value in Germany as in the US. It is a hard metric for me personally to separate myself from.|*+* That being said, when exploring international rankings of German universities, the first 20 are always public schools. (2/2)|
|*+* Based off the schools website and LinkedIn profiles I have stalked, graduates of ISM seem to be successful, but… (1/4)|*+* After googling around a bunch, there are countless successful politicians, lawyers, CEOS, and most importantly for me, CFOs who all received their first degree from a public German university.|
|*-* The average student at ISM is extremely well off. During an interview with a… more open professor at ISM, he revealed that most students were quite well off and did not need any form of financial aid to fund their education. These students have had a leg up on the world and probably would have been successful regardless of their university. (2/4)|*+* As someone who has known poverty their entire lives until the last few years of their life, I do not relate as well to upper-crusters versus working class people. I might not gel with the young private school students. That being said… (1/2)|
|*+*That being said, having powerful connections is a valuable asset. A large portion of my previous career was built upon whom I knew and what positions they’d held. Rich and connected friends can be quite helpful, especially in business. (3/4)|*-* Having well off friends and thus future business partners might be an advantage in the business world. It has been helpful in my life up until now. Public universities might not offer me those same opportunities. (2/2)|
|*-* ISM runs very capitalistically. Their advertising and aggressive sales tactics remind me of exactly what I detest back home in America. I believe the “Decide by Jan 3rd,” ultimatum ISM has put on me is a high pressure sales tactic, as after some digging, I have found that I think I actually have until the end of January. For-Profit education is something I am intrinsically against and misaligns with my personal values. (4/4)|*+* Socialized university aligns with my personal and political values. I would be honored to be a part of such a system. It is ultimately one of the reasons I want to move and raise a family in the country.|
|*+* ISM has a heavy emphasis on internationality in their curriculum. As someone who will have lived in 3 different countries, my internationality might be a good trait to bolster. One semester must be spent abroad, but… (1/2)|*-* My education might be purely Germany oriented. I would like the freedom of using my education world wide, should I want to go home. Will my future education at a public university allow me that freedom?|
|*-* That abroad semester will cost me more money one way or another. I will be fluent in German and English. This limits my semester abroad university choices to German-speaking countries, English-speaking countries or English taught universities elsewhere like Bangkok University. While my ISM tuition would go towards tuition at those institutions, there is a high chance that the German or English universities would be more expensive and I would have to make up the difference. Even though Bangkok University would be cheaper, I still would have to make up the moving and living expenses. (2/2)|*+* The only costs I would have to concern myself with are education costs and costs of living. Various miscellaneous education costs have been estimated to be between 260 and 300 € a year and costs of living between 930 and 1200 € a year. I will also have to pay for extra flights to and from America while I wait for my student visa. This seems doable between my savings and a part time job. (1/2)|
|*-* I will not have time to hold a job in addition to my studies. ISM states that they discourage a student accepting more employment than 10 hours a week.|*+* Many Germans work during their education. This would be essential to covering living costs as well as raising my quality of life. Plus, I value working. Labor is meaningful to me. (2/2)|
|*-* ISM’s student body is quite young. When I asked that same honest professor about the average student’s age, he said that most first years are between the ages of 18 and 20. I would be the old man in this situation. I enjoy young people just fine and have no shame in being the odd-man-out, but again, social connections in your chosen field are a vital part of going to university. I might have an uphill social battle to secure and maintain relations with my peers.|*+* There will be many Germans and others in similar situations to myself in both life path and age. I should find it easy to meet and bond with my peers at a public school.|
|*-* There seems to be a general distrust and scorn against private universities by the average German. Between Reddit, Youtube (see EasyGerman) and other forums, I have noted a significant disdain for non-public universities in Germany, ranging from \[paraphrasing\] “it is the same or worse education for incredible amounts of money,” to “Most private universities are complete frauds and are little more than a trap to fleece ignorant foreigners.” Reddit’s r/Germany even states “\[Private universities in Germany\] are seen as places where people pay for a degree which they would have been unable to get at a public university (presumably because they were not bright or hardworking enough). While degrees from most private universities are fully accredited, employers will likely question why the candidate didn’t get their degree from a public university instead.” [https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/studying/general#wiki\_public\_and\_private\_universities](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/studying/general#wiki_public_and_private_universities)|*+* Going to university for free through my own will and determination in another country in another language would be a very valuable accomplishment for me. I would feel prideful for my hard work and should I ever follow my dream of becoming a German citizen, I would consider it a valuable and important experience in my mental naturalization process. I would be experiencing something most Germans also experience.|
|*+* ISM’s program begins in March 2023, less than 3 months. This aligns well with both my lease and work contract ending. The transition will be smooth. I will get to start pursuing my dream in a very short amount of time. I will have my degree by early 2026 at age 30.|*-x2* I do not know how long it will take to begin this plan. It will most likely take longer than 3 months in visas alone. As a soon-to-be 27 year old, I do not have much time to spend. I need every minute I can get and the ambiguity of this plan costs time, not to mention the extra year that I will spend Language Learning. This will most likely add a year and a half to my plans landing me a degree at age 31.5 in Winter 2027.|
|*+* This ISM program is essentially a sure thing. At this point, there is little left to chance, other than securing my visa, loans, and housing, the bulk of the uncertainty is over.|*-x2* At this time, there are many factors left to chance with this plan. I do not have a language program selected. I do not know if I will be able to get a job in Germany with my B1 language proficiency. I do not know if I will successfully pass my language tests. I do not know if I will find and be accepted into a University program that suits me. I do not know if I will be in a place financially to deposit enough into the Blocked Bank Account come mid-2024. All this on top of securing my visa twice and housing twice. My whole purpose of pursuing this degree is for a sure thing. I have already done the “let’s cross our fingers and hope this goes somewhere” degree. I’ve devoted 10 years of my life to it. I am not trying to take anymore chances. This whole idea is supposed to be the safe option. This plan does not align with that sentiment.|
|*-x3* The obvious one. The cost. **37,500 € is a freakin lot**. I will have to apply for loans and go into debt. No two ways about it. I have always paid off every debt I’ve had in less than a year. This will be something I am not proud of and will hang over me many many years into my career.|*+* 300 € miscellaneous costs times 3 years. round trip flights from Berlin to Phoenix cost around 500 € booked a month in advance. 1.400 € is a pretty damn cheap education. And I’d be doing it the German way.|
das macht zusammen:
ISM 0
Public +1
hmmmmmmmm…