The fact that referrals and arrests skyrocketed after the review process began tells you this is far more about institutional will than anything else.
Bullshit walks.
I wonder if this will finally stop the commentators who flood into any post regarding low rape convictions, insisting absolutely nothing can be done to improve it without jeopardising innocent until proven guilty.
[deleted]
If strikes me that there needs to be a different term for Rape = e.g jumping out of the bushes and forcing yourself on to someone, versus Rape = having sex with someone with dubious consent I.e under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or someone too young to consent.
Similar to how we have Manslaughter versus Murder, though in this situation I’m definitely not saying one should have a greater sentence just a different approach to handling.
So many of the challenges are rooted in that issue.
I think the police get alot of shit for not dealing with sex crimes better, I agree that some types like people with multiple accusations are strange that they aren’t handled better but I think alot of people miss out that alot of these cases aren’t easy to police.
We have a system which assumes innocence before guilt (which is a good thing). If you have a situation where you rely on a single witness statement, it’s 1 v 1, so you can only possibly win a case if the accuser is more credible than the accused.
If the accuser was compromised in some way e.g alcohol. Then it will unfortunately lessen their credibility and make a 1 v 1 scenario an unlikely prosecution.
Besides that, playing devils advocate for some of the comments, I don’t think the police should automatically side with the victim, they should be neutral where possible. This does mean they have to ask tough questions, like “are you sure you this isn’t regret”.
If you disagree with that then I wonder how you’d feel if someone filed a false report that you are a pedophile, anyone at any time could do it. They could come around your house, speak to your parents, speak to your employer, ask everyone how long you’ve been a pedophile etc.
Not it says an increase in prosecutions – not convictions
The 3% conviction rate for rape in the UK is a complete myth.
The actual conviction rate for cases that go to court is 78%.
Just want to highlight this particular part of the article
“The report stresses that officers are struggling to cope with workload and emotional trauma and needed support. A bespoke survey found burnout to be higher than among NHS staff during the first year of the Covid-19 pandemic.”
80% of staff have less than two years in the force which means they just aren’t equipment to deal with kind of offences. You would need detectives which no one wants to be come because the stress and work load is so dam high.
I bet the amount of false rape accusations is also through the roof. Police probably knows that getting it to court would do more damage than good as jury consisting of random citizen, who often give “guilty” verdict based on little more than “word against word”.
Police services don’t give a damn about victims. A couple of years ago I was walking down a well-lit main road in an English city where I was studying, at half twelve. I’d just left a friend’s house. It was a warm night, and there had been a spate of taxi rapes in the city, so I decided that it would be safer to walk down the High Street, full of lights and people and CCTV.
A man cycled up behind me and jabbed me in the taint hard enough to bruise it. It was painful for a week afterwards. I rang my mother, scared and angry, and thank God I did, because ten minutes later the same guy, who had hid himself in an alleyway and waited for me, jumped me.
He put his arms around me and started to pull me back into the alleyway. He tore open the front of my long-sleeved top, hard enough to pull down my bra too and expose my breasts. But because I was talking on my mobile (my poor mother heard me struggling and screaming), he’d only managed to pin one of my arms; my right was up, and I was able to spin around and give him an elbow to the face.
He was wearing a bandana wrapped around his face as a mask. Cap. All black clothes. We looked at each other for a long moment, then he saw that I was on the phone and scarpered. I ran back to the religious house where I was living at the time, still on the phone to my mother.
The next day, I reported it to the police. I’d put my clothes into a plastic bag and not touched them – it turned out his DNA was all over them, but didn’t match anyone in their system. A male PC took my statement, and to be fair he was perfectly nice. A bit awkward, but he’d obviously had some training. Then it was moved up to a DC, and when I went in for my DNA swabs to be taken, he scolded me for not calling immediately, that same night. He told me that maybe if I’d phoned them earlier, they might have caught him, then I wouldn’t have to feel responsible if he did the same or worse to another woman…
The same DC released a statement to the press to ask for any witnesses. He described the first sexual assault as my being “approached by a man on a bike who touched her inappropriately over her clothing from behind.” The second was described as “the man grabbed her and tried to hug her before touching her inappropriately over her clothing.” A sexual assault and a potential abduction turned into an attempted hug.
He also “used the opportunity” “to remind people that it always worth considering how you will get home following a night out and to ensure your personal safety while out in the city.” The news reported it as ***”******revellers*** ***warned to ‘ensure their personal safety’.***” I made a complaint to the police, which was brushed aside.
I was told that if it had only been my word they’d not have tested my clothes – it was only because they got the first assault on tape and the aftermath of the second, and because another woman was also assaulted by someone on a bike a week later. Otherwise it “wouldn’t have been worth it”. His DNA was all over them. The police never gave them back. I was told a few months later that they’d closed the case and wouldn’t investigate it further.
I took all the precautions. I did everything I was supposed to. It was the almost mythical level of “evil masked rapist jumping out of the alleyway” to attack the religious virgin living in a religious house (I say this not to make out that I ‘deserved’ it less – NO ONE deserves it. Just to point out the hypocrisy of the victim-blaming). It was caught on CCTV. They got clear samples of his DNA.
Nope. Still my fault. Still my responsibility. Shouldn’t have been walking down a well-lit main road after dark.
The initial assault made me feel terrified and violated. But it was the police response that made me feel worthless.
The Rotherham scandal was terrible, and gets shockingly little recognition especially as it also happened in most cities.
Why give up the habit of a lifetime? You have to protect your dodgy mates some how…..
This was my experience too. I was told that because I didn’t kick up enough of a fuss, that I had consented… but it was in no way consensual. But I was physically somewhere that I couldn’t easily get out of and felt that unless I went along with it, I would be putting myself in danger. You don’t want to anger someone when you’re in that situation.
13 comments
The fact that referrals and arrests skyrocketed after the review process began tells you this is far more about institutional will than anything else.
Bullshit walks.
I wonder if this will finally stop the commentators who flood into any post regarding low rape convictions, insisting absolutely nothing can be done to improve it without jeopardising innocent until proven guilty.
[deleted]
If strikes me that there needs to be a different term for Rape = e.g jumping out of the bushes and forcing yourself on to someone, versus Rape = having sex with someone with dubious consent I.e under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or someone too young to consent.
Similar to how we have Manslaughter versus Murder, though in this situation I’m definitely not saying one should have a greater sentence just a different approach to handling.
So many of the challenges are rooted in that issue.
I think the police get alot of shit for not dealing with sex crimes better, I agree that some types like people with multiple accusations are strange that they aren’t handled better but I think alot of people miss out that alot of these cases aren’t easy to police.
We have a system which assumes innocence before guilt (which is a good thing). If you have a situation where you rely on a single witness statement, it’s 1 v 1, so you can only possibly win a case if the accuser is more credible than the accused.
If the accuser was compromised in some way e.g alcohol. Then it will unfortunately lessen their credibility and make a 1 v 1 scenario an unlikely prosecution.
Besides that, playing devils advocate for some of the comments, I don’t think the police should automatically side with the victim, they should be neutral where possible. This does mean they have to ask tough questions, like “are you sure you this isn’t regret”.
If you disagree with that then I wonder how you’d feel if someone filed a false report that you are a pedophile, anyone at any time could do it. They could come around your house, speak to your parents, speak to your employer, ask everyone how long you’ve been a pedophile etc.
Not it says an increase in prosecutions – not convictions
The 3% conviction rate for rape in the UK is a complete myth.
The actual conviction rate for cases that go to court is 78%.
Just want to highlight this particular part of the article
“The report stresses that officers are struggling to cope with workload and emotional trauma and needed support. A bespoke survey found burnout to be higher than among NHS staff during the first year of the Covid-19 pandemic.”
80% of staff have less than two years in the force which means they just aren’t equipment to deal with kind of offences. You would need detectives which no one wants to be come because the stress and work load is so dam high.
I bet the amount of false rape accusations is also through the roof. Police probably knows that getting it to court would do more damage than good as jury consisting of random citizen, who often give “guilty” verdict based on little more than “word against word”.
Police services don’t give a damn about victims. A couple of years ago I was walking down a well-lit main road in an English city where I was studying, at half twelve. I’d just left a friend’s house. It was a warm night, and there had been a spate of taxi rapes in the city, so I decided that it would be safer to walk down the High Street, full of lights and people and CCTV.
A man cycled up behind me and jabbed me in the taint hard enough to bruise it. It was painful for a week afterwards. I rang my mother, scared and angry, and thank God I did, because ten minutes later the same guy, who had hid himself in an alleyway and waited for me, jumped me.
He put his arms around me and started to pull me back into the alleyway. He tore open the front of my long-sleeved top, hard enough to pull down my bra too and expose my breasts. But because I was talking on my mobile (my poor mother heard me struggling and screaming), he’d only managed to pin one of my arms; my right was up, and I was able to spin around and give him an elbow to the face.
He was wearing a bandana wrapped around his face as a mask. Cap. All black clothes. We looked at each other for a long moment, then he saw that I was on the phone and scarpered. I ran back to the religious house where I was living at the time, still on the phone to my mother.
The next day, I reported it to the police. I’d put my clothes into a plastic bag and not touched them – it turned out his DNA was all over them, but didn’t match anyone in their system. A male PC took my statement, and to be fair he was perfectly nice. A bit awkward, but he’d obviously had some training. Then it was moved up to a DC, and when I went in for my DNA swabs to be taken, he scolded me for not calling immediately, that same night. He told me that maybe if I’d phoned them earlier, they might have caught him, then I wouldn’t have to feel responsible if he did the same or worse to another woman…
The same DC released a statement to the press to ask for any witnesses. He described the first sexual assault as my being “approached by a man on a bike who touched her inappropriately over her clothing from behind.” The second was described as “the man grabbed her and tried to hug her before touching her inappropriately over her clothing.” A sexual assault and a potential abduction turned into an attempted hug.
He also “used the opportunity” “to remind people that it always worth considering how you will get home following a night out and to ensure your personal safety while out in the city.” The news reported it as ***”******revellers*** ***warned to ‘ensure their personal safety’.***” I made a complaint to the police, which was brushed aside.
I was told that if it had only been my word they’d not have tested my clothes – it was only because they got the first assault on tape and the aftermath of the second, and because another woman was also assaulted by someone on a bike a week later. Otherwise it “wouldn’t have been worth it”. His DNA was all over them. The police never gave them back. I was told a few months later that they’d closed the case and wouldn’t investigate it further.
I took all the precautions. I did everything I was supposed to. It was the almost mythical level of “evil masked rapist jumping out of the alleyway” to attack the religious virgin living in a religious house (I say this not to make out that I ‘deserved’ it less – NO ONE deserves it. Just to point out the hypocrisy of the victim-blaming). It was caught on CCTV. They got clear samples of his DNA.
Nope. Still my fault. Still my responsibility. Shouldn’t have been walking down a well-lit main road after dark.
The initial assault made me feel terrified and violated. But it was the police response that made me feel worthless.
The Rotherham scandal was terrible, and gets shockingly little recognition especially as it also happened in most cities.
Why give up the habit of a lifetime? You have to protect your dodgy mates some how…..
This was my experience too. I was told that because I didn’t kick up enough of a fuss, that I had consented… but it was in no way consensual. But I was physically somewhere that I couldn’t easily get out of and felt that unless I went along with it, I would be putting myself in danger. You don’t want to anger someone when you’re in that situation.