Is Gymnasium easier in Germany than in other countries?

11 comments

1. Eh that depends. It’s harder than in Sweden for sure, but I don’t know about the Netherlands. And not everyone I know has an Abi. (From Bavaria)

2. It depends a bit on the state you’re talking about I believe. I grew up in Bavaria (born in the late 80s), and I’d say way less than half the people who went to elementary school with me did get their Abitur.

   Maybe there is also a bit of a bias when it comes to who you meet and talk to, and who you don’t meet. For example, if you communicate in English, that means people who aren’t confident talking in English won’t really communicate with you, and those are probably the ones without an Abitur.

3. Maybe this is confirmation bias because you only socialize with people that have Abitur 😀 37% of Germans have completed their Abitur. I read online that 40% of Dutch people have VWO… so by your logic it woud be easier in the Netherlands?

4. Keep in mind that education is in the hands of the different states. You are basically looking at 16 more or less different education systems, when talking about Germany. Some states are considered to be easier than others.

5. I think you also have to take into consideration that you not only need the Abitur to get into university, but also many other possible careers and because of this a lot of students are pressured into getting the Abitur. Most of the people I know who don’t have an Abitur didn’t try to get one because they knew it wouldn’t be necessary in the field they wanted to work in later on. However, if you are unsure about the career you want to pursue it’s generally advisable to just get your Abitur. You get a couple of additional years in school to make up your mind and have more options afterwards. Even if you don’t necessarily need your Abitur for the job you want to do having one can be advantageous in the application process, too.

6. >I’m asking this because basically everyone I meet here that has just finished high school has an Abiturabschluss.

   That’s likely due to where/how you are meeting people. It seems you’re not meeting the other groups.

   Recently, roughly 50 percent did the Abitur or Fachabitur; that’s more than 20 percent but far from “basically everyone”.

   Also, five minutes of looking at the English-language Wikipedia article on the Netherlands makes it look as if there’s something called HAVO that many people do, and it gives access to what would be a “Fachhochschule” in Germany? That would likely be very similar to our Fachabitur, so you would need to add this to the numbers for the VWO if you wanted to have a more accurate comparison.

   >OR German universities are easier compared to that of other countries

   Having an Abitur or Fachabitur does not mean that people can study whatever they like and graduate. 1) For many subjects there are additional addition requirements, most commonly based on grades. 2) Being admitted doesn’t mean people graduate. Certain engineering subjects have failure/quitting rates of about 50 percent.

   ETA: Re your edit:

   >In Germany about 53% of 20-24 year olds has an Abitur, whereas in the Netherlands only 18,5% has the equivalent VWO-diploma.

   That’s, as mentioned above, Abitur *and* Fachabitur. You would need to add the Dutch equivalent to the Fachabitur to your percentage.

7. In Germany there is Hochschulreife (Abitur) and Fachhochschulreife (Fachabitur) which can be achieved faster and easier. Many people with an Fachabitur call it Abitur. The statistic 53% means both. Having an Abitur you are authorised to study at a „classic“ University or a technical college/university of applied sciences. A Fachhochschulreife (Fachabitur) allows you to only study at the last one.

8. I don’t know anything about the Dutch education system, so I’m not sure how valid your comparison of secondary school diplomas is – but do keep in mind that your 53 % includes not only people with Abitur, but also those with the more limited “Fachhochschulreife”.

   Additionally, the proportion of people with a university degree actually seems to be higher in the Netherlands than in Germany.

9. Isn’t this discrepancy because you divide children into different education tracks in the Netherlands. So in the end only a smaller part of the population has the opportunity to qualify for university. In this way I think it’s not difficulty based, but more of an arbitrary cut down. Where I’m from in Sweden there are no different tracks so naturally more people have the qualifications to attend university.

10. Btw. The percentage includes people who studied Fachoberschule, which gives you opportunity to study some things but not at all everything. It’s something you can do after Realschule.

11. You dont need a Gymnasium for Abitur Gesamtschulen are also available and are easier.