“She adds that most of the women felt somewhat isolated because of their choice. “They felt they were being judged, as if they had not achieved the ‘ultimate goal’ of womanhood, which is motherhood, according to societal norms.
They described being positioned as an outsider, an oddball. Some felt that they and their partner were not viewed as a ‘proper family’ because they had no children. Their other accomplishments were minimised. This exclusion was quite painful for some.”
…what’s people’s experience of this?
This article quotes a master’s students work that has only surveyed 15 women. Not sure if it’s very conclusive.
>outlining their various rationales and reasons. Some have high-powered careers and are happy to be aunties and godmothers, some travel extensively and have no time to parent, while others are trying to normalise living an ‘average’ life with no kids for no pressing reason other than a lack of desire.
Hard to take the article seriously when it chooses to ignore the biggest factor, the fucking cost. People are trying not to become homeless, so I imagine dragging a kid into that would be wise choice for many.
Because kids are bastards
[deleted]
Because people are realising that your life is for living and enjoying. Not putting yourself in poverty to raise little leeches.
The article was more of a fluff piece, not nuanced at all. Then there was a parent mentor advertising her parenting classes at the end of the article for some reason
I know I’ve posted something similar before but I’ll be hitting 40 next year (shudder) I’ve never had any maternal instinct, I’ve known since I was 19 that kids were not the plan for me. I’ve had people ask me extremely personal questions as to why when I get asked. My parents are lovely people, I come from a big family, I love my nieces and nephews, I’m in a very long term relationship, I have no traumas, I don’t live a lavish lifestyle that I don’t want to change with children. I just know myself enough to know I would not make a good parent. I’m at the stage now where some friends are distancing themselves because they think I can’t relate to the stresses of being a parent (I can’t but I am able to empathise like a normal human). Weirdly the only person in my life who at least attempts to understand the most and not judge is a work friend who is a natural parent with loads of kids. I don’t think I’m doing some “revolutionary” thing or making some grand statement I think I’m being a responsible adult.
Society :
When a woman doesn’t want kids: everyone says “Fair play, focus on your career/life goals/ travel.”
When a man doesn’t want kids: everyone says “” what’s wrong with that weirdo, he must be gay, can’t get a girlfriend, …he’s a weirdo””
15 people in the study is a pretty small sample size but that said I do see these comments aimed at CF people a lot. Hell even those of us with kids get the “when’s the next one due?” question, like your only function is to produce babies. I think as time goes on it will become more acceptable to be childfree. Half my friend group have kids and half don’t and it’s never been an issue. I don’t really ask people about kids unless they bring it up. I love my kid dearly but I’ve my own life too and they’re at the age now where they possibly don’t want me talking about them anyway and I feel it’s important that those boundaries are respected. I certainly gave up my social life for the first 2 years but that was my choice. I honestly feel pieces like this can be detrimental. Having kids or not by choice shouldn’t be portrayed as some weird mystery or problem to be solved. Some people just don’t want kids and that’s ok.
I’ve been open with healthcare providers about being childfree for years (it comes up a lot because of my endometriosis) and never have I received such a pushback than after moving to Ireland. The nurse at my GP office reacted with shock and concern which wouldn’t be the worst if she didn’t keep digging into it. She remembered at the next appointment which was just me getting vaccinated and started again. She clearly sees it as a problem to be investigated, asking probing questions and making it quite clear which one is the normal good choice.
It’s weird because she takes the endometriosis seriously, which should be a perfectly valid reason to decide against kids on its own (in theory). In general I found women’s healthcare in Ireland to be refreshingly sensitive and gentle. Everything happens slowly and with lots of explanation.
That’s just my experience though. To see other surveys on this would be interesting.
I also wonder if staying outwardly neutral on reproduction is part of the training in some places. Because I’m guessing my nurse’s opinion isn’t actually that rare anywhere. People do tend to feel very strongly about this all over the world and some are just genuinely struggling to understand the childfree choice coming from how much they want kids themselves
Is “Because I don’t want children” not allowed? Why the need for a list of justifications? Where’s the corresponding article about why some Irish women are choosing to have children? Nobody ever questions that.
I don’t want to have children at this point in my life or for the foreseeable future. I recently graduated college. My career hasn’t even begun. I am also the oldest in my family and I’ve seen the pressure my mother is under with my younger siblings. I want to choose how to live my life. I don’t want to be restrained by some kids.
I’ve a circle of friends who are happily child free, and cost was never an obstacle. We grew up in large but poor families in small cramped houses, 3 to a room etc.. and while I’m glad some people had wonderful childhoods that they enjoy reliving through having their own kids for many people including myself childhood was not an event to revisit.
More women are educated on the consequences pregnancy may have on their health such as vaginal/anal tearing, tooth/hair loss and post partum depression/psychosis to name a few. Childcare costs the same as a mortgage. Clothing, feeding and providing for a child is insanely expensive even more so now that the cost of everything bar labour has risen. The vast majority of fathers are putting in significantly less than 50% of the work if they’re present at all and I say this as a man. The actual time and labour it takes to look after them is basically a second full time job for the guts of a decade. The healthcare situation means that if your child is born with or develops any issues they’re shit out of luck. The education situation means that when the little one is old enough for school they won’t get the attention they need to thrive because class sizes are too large. On top of that the school will bleed you dry between uniforms, books, “voluntary” contributions and the school constantly looking for money because the government underfunds them. I’m only scratching the tip of the iceberg here and could go on a lot longer but apart from the healthcare concerns which can only be addressed with more investment and research into women’s health worldwide every other issue seems to be caused by governmental incompetence.
I posted this in another post but at least Hungary is doing something to make it easier for couples to have families.
I’m fairly confident that in a lot of cases it’s because we can barely afford to house ourselves at the moment, never mind adding childcare etc on top of it.
Crisis in housing, crisis in childcare, crisis in cost of living, crisis in health care….. who the fuck would think now is a good time to have kids?
In my experience it’s that I spent 5 years of my 20s in full time education: no money.
Another couple of years on basically minimum wage after graduating: barely any money.
Then I finally got a career job so I’m only now in a position to consider saving toward a house or to enjoy a bit of a disposable income, go on holiday etc, but I’m still paying off debts and haven’t been on the career ladder long enough to be in any way thriving – I’m just getting by more comfortably for literally the first time in my adulthood.
Simple thing is having children is not affordable for a lot of people now before the age of 30 and even after. Childcare costs alone are eye watering. The maternal instinct to have kids doesn’t outweigh the logistics and from my perspective I feel it would just be unfair for me to have a kid and not be able to provide for them properly. I want one but it is what it is.
There was a good blindboy podcast released recently where he talks about these life milestones and how they haven’t been updated for millennials with our cost of living and the challenges we face. With our parents a family could survive and even prosper on one decent income and that’s unfathomable now.
I feel like watching the first season of “House of Dragon” is enough to dissuade any woman from having children.
Because unless you’ve got a council house or are loaded it’s fuckin impossible for women these days to have kids and a decent quality of life
21 comments
“She adds that most of the women felt somewhat isolated because of their choice. “They felt they were being judged, as if they had not achieved the ‘ultimate goal’ of womanhood, which is motherhood, according to societal norms.
They described being positioned as an outsider, an oddball. Some felt that they and their partner were not viewed as a ‘proper family’ because they had no children. Their other accomplishments were minimised. This exclusion was quite painful for some.”
…what’s people’s experience of this?
This article quotes a master’s students work that has only surveyed 15 women. Not sure if it’s very conclusive.
>outlining their various rationales and reasons. Some have high-powered careers and are happy to be aunties and godmothers, some travel extensively and have no time to parent, while others are trying to normalise living an ‘average’ life with no kids for no pressing reason other than a lack of desire.
Hard to take the article seriously when it chooses to ignore the biggest factor, the fucking cost. People are trying not to become homeless, so I imagine dragging a kid into that would be wise choice for many.
Because kids are bastards
[deleted]
Because people are realising that your life is for living and enjoying. Not putting yourself in poverty to raise little leeches.
The article was more of a fluff piece, not nuanced at all. Then there was a parent mentor advertising her parenting classes at the end of the article for some reason
I know I’ve posted something similar before but I’ll be hitting 40 next year (shudder) I’ve never had any maternal instinct, I’ve known since I was 19 that kids were not the plan for me. I’ve had people ask me extremely personal questions as to why when I get asked. My parents are lovely people, I come from a big family, I love my nieces and nephews, I’m in a very long term relationship, I have no traumas, I don’t live a lavish lifestyle that I don’t want to change with children. I just know myself enough to know I would not make a good parent. I’m at the stage now where some friends are distancing themselves because they think I can’t relate to the stresses of being a parent (I can’t but I am able to empathise like a normal human). Weirdly the only person in my life who at least attempts to understand the most and not judge is a work friend who is a natural parent with loads of kids. I don’t think I’m doing some “revolutionary” thing or making some grand statement I think I’m being a responsible adult.
Society :
When a woman doesn’t want kids: everyone says “Fair play, focus on your career/life goals/ travel.”
When a man doesn’t want kids: everyone says “” what’s wrong with that weirdo, he must be gay, can’t get a girlfriend, …he’s a weirdo””
15 people in the study is a pretty small sample size but that said I do see these comments aimed at CF people a lot. Hell even those of us with kids get the “when’s the next one due?” question, like your only function is to produce babies. I think as time goes on it will become more acceptable to be childfree. Half my friend group have kids and half don’t and it’s never been an issue. I don’t really ask people about kids unless they bring it up. I love my kid dearly but I’ve my own life too and they’re at the age now where they possibly don’t want me talking about them anyway and I feel it’s important that those boundaries are respected. I certainly gave up my social life for the first 2 years but that was my choice. I honestly feel pieces like this can be detrimental. Having kids or not by choice shouldn’t be portrayed as some weird mystery or problem to be solved. Some people just don’t want kids and that’s ok.
I’ve been open with healthcare providers about being childfree for years (it comes up a lot because of my endometriosis) and never have I received such a pushback than after moving to Ireland. The nurse at my GP office reacted with shock and concern which wouldn’t be the worst if she didn’t keep digging into it. She remembered at the next appointment which was just me getting vaccinated and started again. She clearly sees it as a problem to be investigated, asking probing questions and making it quite clear which one is the normal good choice.
It’s weird because she takes the endometriosis seriously, which should be a perfectly valid reason to decide against kids on its own (in theory). In general I found women’s healthcare in Ireland to be refreshingly sensitive and gentle. Everything happens slowly and with lots of explanation.
That’s just my experience though. To see other surveys on this would be interesting.
I also wonder if staying outwardly neutral on reproduction is part of the training in some places. Because I’m guessing my nurse’s opinion isn’t actually that rare anywhere. People do tend to feel very strongly about this all over the world and some are just genuinely struggling to understand the childfree choice coming from how much they want kids themselves
Is “Because I don’t want children” not allowed? Why the need for a list of justifications? Where’s the corresponding article about why some Irish women are choosing to have children? Nobody ever questions that.
I don’t want to have children at this point in my life or for the foreseeable future. I recently graduated college. My career hasn’t even begun. I am also the oldest in my family and I’ve seen the pressure my mother is under with my younger siblings. I want to choose how to live my life. I don’t want to be restrained by some kids.
I’ve a circle of friends who are happily child free, and cost was never an obstacle. We grew up in large but poor families in small cramped houses, 3 to a room etc.. and while I’m glad some people had wonderful childhoods that they enjoy reliving through having their own kids for many people including myself childhood was not an event to revisit.
More women are educated on the consequences pregnancy may have on their health such as vaginal/anal tearing, tooth/hair loss and post partum depression/psychosis to name a few. Childcare costs the same as a mortgage. Clothing, feeding and providing for a child is insanely expensive even more so now that the cost of everything bar labour has risen. The vast majority of fathers are putting in significantly less than 50% of the work if they’re present at all and I say this as a man. The actual time and labour it takes to look after them is basically a second full time job for the guts of a decade. The healthcare situation means that if your child is born with or develops any issues they’re shit out of luck. The education situation means that when the little one is old enough for school they won’t get the attention they need to thrive because class sizes are too large. On top of that the school will bleed you dry between uniforms, books, “voluntary” contributions and the school constantly looking for money because the government underfunds them. I’m only scratching the tip of the iceberg here and could go on a lot longer but apart from the healthcare concerns which can only be addressed with more investment and research into women’s health worldwide every other issue seems to be caused by governmental incompetence.
I posted this in another post but at least Hungary is doing something to make it easier for couples to have families.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_policy_in_Hungary
I’m fairly confident that in a lot of cases it’s because we can barely afford to house ourselves at the moment, never mind adding childcare etc on top of it.
Crisis in housing, crisis in childcare, crisis in cost of living, crisis in health care….. who the fuck would think now is a good time to have kids?
In my experience it’s that I spent 5 years of my 20s in full time education: no money.
Another couple of years on basically minimum wage after graduating: barely any money.
Then I finally got a career job so I’m only now in a position to consider saving toward a house or to enjoy a bit of a disposable income, go on holiday etc, but I’m still paying off debts and haven’t been on the career ladder long enough to be in any way thriving – I’m just getting by more comfortably for literally the first time in my adulthood.
Simple thing is having children is not affordable for a lot of people now before the age of 30 and even after. Childcare costs alone are eye watering. The maternal instinct to have kids doesn’t outweigh the logistics and from my perspective I feel it would just be unfair for me to have a kid and not be able to provide for them properly. I want one but it is what it is.
There was a good blindboy podcast released recently where he talks about these life milestones and how they haven’t been updated for millennials with our cost of living and the challenges we face. With our parents a family could survive and even prosper on one decent income and that’s unfathomable now.
I feel like watching the first season of “House of Dragon” is enough to dissuade any woman from having children.
Because unless you’ve got a council house or are loaded it’s fuckin impossible for women these days to have kids and a decent quality of life
Send ’em my way. Please.