Americans overestimate social mobility in their country but in Europe, climbing the ladder is easier than most people believe | The Economist
Americans overestimate social mobility in their country but in Europe, climbing the ladder is easier than most people believe | The Economist
5 comments
[deleted]
C’est cocasse, cette différence entre le réel et le perçu… ” On ne jouit que de l’illusion que l’on se fait”… Exemple : l’administration me considère comme un SDF, je vis en forêt, mais, mon pote, j’ai l’impression de vivre une vie de milliardaire… Pas d’attente à l’aéroport.
J’imagine que ça dépend un peu comment l’étude est faite. Ca peut etre plus facile de devenir milliardaire quand t’es aux USA qu’en France, tout en étant plus compliqué d’atteindre la classe moyenne supérieure quand t’es aux USA qu’en France.
Et le graphe a l’air de ne prendre que en compte les revenus et d’ignorer le patrimoine, or l’accès au patrimoine se fait dans des conditions différentes entre chaque pays et c’est une part énorme de la richesse totale d’un individu.
J’ai regardé par curiosité ce que ça donnait en montant. J’ai trouvé les statistiques par foyer.
En 2018, aux USA, le premier quintile reçoit au moins 121 000 dollars (107 000) euros.
En 2016, en France, le premier quintile perçoit au moins 50 000 euros de revenu disponible (ir et cotisations sociales payées par ex).
Les 2 revenus ne sont pas directement comparables (revenu disponible pour les ménages français). Mais en regardant le premier quintile… :
Usa revenu le plus haut du premier quintile :
24 000 dollars (19 000 euros).
France revenu le plus haut du premier quintile : 21 600 euros.
On voit bien qu’aux USA passer du premier quintile au dernier ne représente pas la même chose qu’en Europe. On fait dire un peu ce que l’on veut aux chiffres.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/household-income-quintiles
https://www.lafinancepourtous.com/decryptages/finance-perso/revenus/niveau-et-composition-des-revenus-moyens-en-france/
Le deuxième lien prend des stats de l’INSEE.
Édit : correction
I’ve always been extremely aware of this problem because of my unique childhood and also because I actually look at data instead of just parroting things I hear. This drives me absolutely up the wall. Did you see the thread about America the other day, asking if it was that bad? I had just watched a youtube video by the Economist about wealth inequality in the US and how it was exasperated by our education system and half the comments were just completely completely false.
Americans are raised to believe that America doesn’t have social class and that we are one of the most equal nations in the world and that Europe and every where else is full of elites who just live off their common people.
It’s just pure propaganda and it’s so widespread, even very educated people and people who suffer from this problem believe it. If you say otherwise to people, they will get very angry and act like you are un-American.
Also, I am already very upset by Americans attitudes toward this but I have also found that many Europeans seem to have bought into our propaganda as well and that makes me feel even more hopeless.
Not only that, but in America your worth as a person is very much tied to how much money you have. This is why everyone is obsessed with money. Money in America is about survival. Without it, you die. Without it, you’re the scum of the earth.
Some other interesting things about this:-Many Americans who belong to the upper class are completely unaware that they belong to the upper class. I have actually had people who had probably at least 5 to 10 times as much wealth as I had, who were some of the wealthiest people in my hometown, complain to me that is was them, in fact, who were poor.-Many people outside of America do not understand that the free things they have in their country are extremely expensive in the US. College is very expensive in the US and we have a legacy system. It’s very prestigious but not in the same way it’s prestigious in your country. It’s just another status symbol really. Healthcare in the US is very expensive. If you meet someone and they went to college and have good healthcare, you are probably unaware that that person is likely at least moderately wealthy.-Only 6% of Americans born in the bottom 20% will make it to the top 20%. But the UK isn’t much better, they have only have 1% do better than us, 7%. So there’s that at least, we’re the worst but the UK isn’t much better.
But Americans who belong to the upper class and are unaware of it, this doesn’t mean they aren’t stuck up and hang out with poor Americans. If they did, they would know that they are part of the upper class. They only hang out with people like them and people richer than them, which is why they think they’re poor. Perhaps that is why, they don’t want their image of themselves shattered.