Not everyone lives close enough to cycle even with better infrastructure
Many people are not physically able to cycle to work everyday
Public transport is what should be stepping up to the plate
An “entrenched car culture” is what car insurance corporations want and will relentlessly “lobby” for. I think it’s here to stay unfortunately.
>Those who own a car spend on average **13% of their gross income on it**, above the 10% generally seen as the indicator of transport poverty. For those paying for their car with a finance or loan deal **this proportion rises to 19%**.
>
>The report, produced by the cycle industry campaign group Bike Is Best, found that about three-quarters of drivers think they will always own a car, while just under half, **47%, believe they have no alternative.**
Far from delivering the freedom promised in flashy ads, cars and car-centric development over the past half century has left the modern British citizen trapped, hopelessly dependent on cars they can barely afford to run.
And the problem is, even where people *could* use alternative means, cars oppress other modes of transport by their many inherent negative attributes (congestion, noise, danger).
Even *if* we can replace all the petrol cars with electric cars in a timely fashion, cars are still expensive, inherently space inefficient, energy inefficient, noisy (above 20mph most car noise is road noise), dangerous, road-destroying, microplastic generators.
Reducing car dependency is an essential component of any sane future. The sooner we do it, the less people will suffer, and the more resilient our society will be in a turbulent future.
I suspect that like most people I dont want to run a car but infrastructure just isnt there to give it up . This weekend I
* Did a big shop (15 min drive vs 40 min bus journey, with shopping)
* Took my 80 year old mum to see where my daughters getting (50 min car drive vs 2.5 hours public transport)
* Picked up a new garden fence (25 min drive vs 30 quid to deliver)
so yeah, not sure cycling is the way forward
[removed]
I don’t feel like people can barely afford driving cars in the UK. I would say an average used car price is one of the lowest in Europe (limited market).
I remember trying to sell a 12 yo, Japanese brand family car, with 80k with no mechanic faults and plenty of life it it.
No one wanted it for a couple of hundred quid.
Gave it to a scrapyard eventually.
The cost of petrol vs income isn’t the highest in Europe either.
Insurance is high, but a fresh driver can be added to an existing policy. And the cost will go down with time.
And the government’s steadfast refusal to tackle a crumbling and sub-par public transport system because they’re too busy selling it off for profit has absolutely nothing to do with it?
Yh but I like driving my car because it’s comfortable, relatively cheap, convenient and fun. I like going where I want and when I want. I also like sitting in the privacy of my own space while I’m doing it.
You’ve all seen the weather in the UK I take it? Its dreadful to cycle in for large swathes of the year. It’s uncomfortable, its cold, it’s wet, it’s windy. Cycling is absolutely miserable for large portions of the year. Bike is not best for fucks sake.
I cycled to work at 5am to get to a job site 7miles away for 6am down an A road. Due to a headwind and driving rain constantly pushing at my face I arrived 45mins late to a bollocking from my boss. I went and bought a cheap car the next weekend.
I’d go as far to say that if you’re driving a car in a city and you’re the only one in it you’re an arsehole and the problem
I’m sympathetic, but I do wish there was more co-ordination between the pro-bike movement and other anti-car movements – because bikes are not a good solution for a lot of people. I’m disabled and can’t ride a bike comfortably, many other people are in a similar position.
I’m getting a little bit concerned by the increase in car free zones in my city, because there is no alternative provided, no bus no nothing, the assumption is that you will be able to walk or ride a bike – which for millions of people in the UK is just not the case.
I’m fortunate that I can cope with it, currently, but in a few years who knows?
We need good quality public transport that is both reliable and affordable.
I think the reason why car culture is entrenched is because it’s still the best option so far for alot of people outaide major cities who’s social circles and lives aren’t all pcnfined to the same 3×3 mile area.
I looked at my most frequent 5 journeys I make. All 5 take around 3x longer on public transport and if cycling 4 of them take 1.5-2x longer and only one is matching.
Neither public transport or cycling are as comfortable or as convenient as my car either. Everytime I got the tram and bus to work I’m crammed and have to listen to other peoples crap music and be uncomfortable.
I live in the suburb’s about 9 miles from the main city centre.
Cycling is individual in ridiculous weather, now try cycling with 3 kids to do the supermarket run… take them 6 miles away for the play centre, 3 miles to the library in town… remember we don’t have busses that actually run as per the time table
For urban transit, the e-scooter is an improvement on both the bike and the car in almost every way, yet they still aren’t legal for private ownership because boomers are scared of new things.
“car culture” implying there are viable alternatives on offer in this country.
Had to give up driving several years ago. My commute to work used to be about 15 mins. Public transport raised it to 1 hour with 2 bus changes, then the same on return. Once I was able I went back to driving.
Interesting the old work from home thing hasn’t been mentioned yet. That’s the obvious solution if the government actually cared about people over businesses. Wouldn’t need to cycle an hour each way if the right to work from home was entrenched in law. Companies should have to defend needing an employee to commute in.
I get this doesn’t help other things people might need a car for, like shopping, but its a big step.
Car culture is not why I won’t give up my car.
I walked everywhere and occasionally used public transport until my early 30s. Only learned how to drive because unemployment led to a 14 mile commute.
That was just before covid so I spent about 6 months not leaving the house other than driving my partner to work, then driving me to work, then the reverse to go home.
Car needed a service, I drive it down and walked home. Within 5 minutes, a cyclist is slowing down, eyeing me up and asking me to give him a smile. It hit me just how *safe* I’d felt the previous 6 months.
Going from being sexually harassed multiple times a month and occasionally assaulted, to being completely free of that is priceless.
I will drop the car when we fix our men and not a second sooner.
ETA: Second time I left the house on foot during covid, someone made a beeline for me and told me, very aggressively, how much he wanted to fuck me. I was literally at the bottom of my street, had been out all of 30 seconds.
We need support of a 15 minute urban areas where everything should be a 15 minute walk at the most for most essentials of living.
Obviously people can still have the car/bus/train however it should be for commute and leisure. Ideally commute should be 15 minute walk too however we cannot always avoid a long commute.
However if a persons commute is more than a 15 minute walk, public transport should be a choice not a compromise.
People should want to ride on public transport like they want to drive. Including people with the financial means to actually afford a car, they may prefer public transport to save money and spend on other areas of the economy.
However it needs support at local as well as national level.
I know various people it’s not even about transport it’s about their pride. Either you own a car or your pathetic kind of mentality. Then they’re super bitter because they live to work. You don’t even need a car round here
Fuck all that I’ll keep laughing with my bike and money in the bank. I don’t even live in the city used to cycle like 5 miles each way to the next village to work at 5am in full waterproofs.
If you want to avoid all that just know you gonna pay for it. I’ll keep the money every day. Long as I have music longer the journey the better
Not to mention train poverty… absolutely getting skinned alive as a commuter
If public transport wasn’t catastrophically bad outside of London (and even then it’s astronomically expensive) more people would use it
I love all the replies that just prove the point of the article. Cars are being used too often for too many types of journeys that could easily be done by other modes of transport if we, as a society, prioritised them better.
Trains are too expensive. Bikes don’t have enough safe infrastructure. Walking is too far for what should be most quick trips.
The point isn’t that any individual is wrong for having and using a car. The point is that we could make life better for society as a whole if we prioritised other modes of transport.
Of course there will always be types of journeys or people with additional needs that will use a car. It’s just that these should be the exception, not the rule.
Ditching a car in a country with shittiest possible public transport and weather than makes cycling a pure mysery?
Good luck.
I mean the real issue is the lack of safe cycling infrastructure (no a painted line on a narrow road that hasn’t gotten any wider isn’t safe) and reliable, far reaching and affordable public transport.
I would happily take the train to see the parents, but neither time nor cost is reduced compared to driving(typically more expensive unless you book weeks in advance) and if you already own a car it’s more cost effective to use it than let it sit.
Gary Numan said it in ‘Cars’. One of the reasons people drive around in metal boxes it they feel safe. Safe from the rain, safe from the cold, and safe from other people. You’re exposed to everything on a bike, and most people hate that.
This sounds like a very London centric article, as always…
Cycling is something you can change, making public transport more reliable and affordable is down to the government and transport providers and until public transport isn’t run for profit nothing is going to change.
The biggest issue here is the 9 to 5 mentality, majority of people have to be in the city centre at the same time, along with the school runs, that’s a lot of traffic crammed into a small timeframe.
Also, public transport is disgusting, I only use a bus when I have to and it’s not a nice experience. I used to cycle to work a lot, it’s a massive gamble, I had to stop in the end as near misses really put me off.
Bike infrastructure. Public transport. Car sharing. Milk float type essentials deliveries and safer streets. That’s what’s needed for an alt round solution.
Has anyone ever been on a bus during school hours? It will surely change your mind about whether driving a car is immoral.
For many of us a car is essential, and a huge part of freedom. I don’t live in a city so can’t speak for everyone.
Ditched my car years ago, (Landrover) stupidly high bills, taxes and running costs. We still have my wife’s car and company van if needed. Don’t miss not owning a car, hate driving in this country these days, too many idiots on the road, speed scammers everwhere…
33 comments
Why is this concentrating so much on cycling?
Not everyone lives close enough to cycle even with better infrastructure
Many people are not physically able to cycle to work everyday
Public transport is what should be stepping up to the plate
An “entrenched car culture” is what car insurance corporations want and will relentlessly “lobby” for. I think it’s here to stay unfortunately.
>Those who own a car spend on average **13% of their gross income on it**, above the 10% generally seen as the indicator of transport poverty. For those paying for their car with a finance or loan deal **this proportion rises to 19%**.
>
>The report, produced by the cycle industry campaign group Bike Is Best, found that about three-quarters of drivers think they will always own a car, while just under half, **47%, believe they have no alternative.**
Far from delivering the freedom promised in flashy ads, cars and car-centric development over the past half century has left the modern British citizen trapped, hopelessly dependent on cars they can barely afford to run.
And the problem is, even where people *could* use alternative means, cars oppress other modes of transport by their many inherent negative attributes (congestion, noise, danger).
Even *if* we can replace all the petrol cars with electric cars in a timely fashion, cars are still expensive, inherently space inefficient, energy inefficient, noisy (above 20mph most car noise is road noise), dangerous, road-destroying, microplastic generators.
Reducing car dependency is an essential component of any sane future. The sooner we do it, the less people will suffer, and the more resilient our society will be in a turbulent future.
I suspect that like most people I dont want to run a car but infrastructure just isnt there to give it up . This weekend I
* Did a big shop (15 min drive vs 40 min bus journey, with shopping)
* Took my 80 year old mum to see where my daughters getting (50 min car drive vs 2.5 hours public transport)
* Picked up a new garden fence (25 min drive vs 30 quid to deliver)
so yeah, not sure cycling is the way forward
[removed]
I don’t feel like people can barely afford driving cars in the UK. I would say an average used car price is one of the lowest in Europe (limited market).
I remember trying to sell a 12 yo, Japanese brand family car, with 80k with no mechanic faults and plenty of life it it.
No one wanted it for a couple of hundred quid.
Gave it to a scrapyard eventually.
The cost of petrol vs income isn’t the highest in Europe either.
Insurance is high, but a fresh driver can be added to an existing policy. And the cost will go down with time.
And the government’s steadfast refusal to tackle a crumbling and sub-par public transport system because they’re too busy selling it off for profit has absolutely nothing to do with it?
Yh but I like driving my car because it’s comfortable, relatively cheap, convenient and fun. I like going where I want and when I want. I also like sitting in the privacy of my own space while I’m doing it.
You’ve all seen the weather in the UK I take it? Its dreadful to cycle in for large swathes of the year. It’s uncomfortable, its cold, it’s wet, it’s windy. Cycling is absolutely miserable for large portions of the year. Bike is not best for fucks sake.
I cycled to work at 5am to get to a job site 7miles away for 6am down an A road. Due to a headwind and driving rain constantly pushing at my face I arrived 45mins late to a bollocking from my boss. I went and bought a cheap car the next weekend.
I’d go as far to say that if you’re driving a car in a city and you’re the only one in it you’re an arsehole and the problem
I’m sympathetic, but I do wish there was more co-ordination between the pro-bike movement and other anti-car movements – because bikes are not a good solution for a lot of people. I’m disabled and can’t ride a bike comfortably, many other people are in a similar position.
I’m getting a little bit concerned by the increase in car free zones in my city, because there is no alternative provided, no bus no nothing, the assumption is that you will be able to walk or ride a bike – which for millions of people in the UK is just not the case.
I’m fortunate that I can cope with it, currently, but in a few years who knows?
We need good quality public transport that is both reliable and affordable.
I think the reason why car culture is entrenched is because it’s still the best option so far for alot of people outaide major cities who’s social circles and lives aren’t all pcnfined to the same 3×3 mile area.
I looked at my most frequent 5 journeys I make. All 5 take around 3x longer on public transport and if cycling 4 of them take 1.5-2x longer and only one is matching.
Neither public transport or cycling are as comfortable or as convenient as my car either. Everytime I got the tram and bus to work I’m crammed and have to listen to other peoples crap music and be uncomfortable.
I live in the suburb’s about 9 miles from the main city centre.
Cycling is individual in ridiculous weather, now try cycling with 3 kids to do the supermarket run… take them 6 miles away for the play centre, 3 miles to the library in town… remember we don’t have busses that actually run as per the time table
For urban transit, the e-scooter is an improvement on both the bike and the car in almost every way, yet they still aren’t legal for private ownership because boomers are scared of new things.
“car culture” implying there are viable alternatives on offer in this country.
Had to give up driving several years ago. My commute to work used to be about 15 mins. Public transport raised it to 1 hour with 2 bus changes, then the same on return. Once I was able I went back to driving.
Interesting the old work from home thing hasn’t been mentioned yet. That’s the obvious solution if the government actually cared about people over businesses. Wouldn’t need to cycle an hour each way if the right to work from home was entrenched in law. Companies should have to defend needing an employee to commute in.
I get this doesn’t help other things people might need a car for, like shopping, but its a big step.
Car culture is not why I won’t give up my car.
I walked everywhere and occasionally used public transport until my early 30s. Only learned how to drive because unemployment led to a 14 mile commute.
That was just before covid so I spent about 6 months not leaving the house other than driving my partner to work, then driving me to work, then the reverse to go home.
Car needed a service, I drive it down and walked home. Within 5 minutes, a cyclist is slowing down, eyeing me up and asking me to give him a smile. It hit me just how *safe* I’d felt the previous 6 months.
Going from being sexually harassed multiple times a month and occasionally assaulted, to being completely free of that is priceless.
I will drop the car when we fix our men and not a second sooner.
ETA: Second time I left the house on foot during covid, someone made a beeline for me and told me, very aggressively, how much he wanted to fuck me. I was literally at the bottom of my street, had been out all of 30 seconds.
We need support of a 15 minute urban areas where everything should be a 15 minute walk at the most for most essentials of living.
Obviously people can still have the car/bus/train however it should be for commute and leisure. Ideally commute should be 15 minute walk too however we cannot always avoid a long commute.
However if a persons commute is more than a 15 minute walk, public transport should be a choice not a compromise.
People should want to ride on public transport like they want to drive. Including people with the financial means to actually afford a car, they may prefer public transport to save money and spend on other areas of the economy.
However it needs support at local as well as national level.
I know various people it’s not even about transport it’s about their pride. Either you own a car or your pathetic kind of mentality. Then they’re super bitter because they live to work. You don’t even need a car round here
Fuck all that I’ll keep laughing with my bike and money in the bank. I don’t even live in the city used to cycle like 5 miles each way to the next village to work at 5am in full waterproofs.
If you want to avoid all that just know you gonna pay for it. I’ll keep the money every day. Long as I have music longer the journey the better
Not to mention train poverty… absolutely getting skinned alive as a commuter
If public transport wasn’t catastrophically bad outside of London (and even then it’s astronomically expensive) more people would use it
I love all the replies that just prove the point of the article. Cars are being used too often for too many types of journeys that could easily be done by other modes of transport if we, as a society, prioritised them better.
Trains are too expensive. Bikes don’t have enough safe infrastructure. Walking is too far for what should be most quick trips.
The point isn’t that any individual is wrong for having and using a car. The point is that we could make life better for society as a whole if we prioritised other modes of transport.
Of course there will always be types of journeys or people with additional needs that will use a car. It’s just that these should be the exception, not the rule.
Ditching a car in a country with shittiest possible public transport and weather than makes cycling a pure mysery?
Good luck.
I mean the real issue is the lack of safe cycling infrastructure (no a painted line on a narrow road that hasn’t gotten any wider isn’t safe) and reliable, far reaching and affordable public transport.
I would happily take the train to see the parents, but neither time nor cost is reduced compared to driving(typically more expensive unless you book weeks in advance) and if you already own a car it’s more cost effective to use it than let it sit.
Gary Numan said it in ‘Cars’. One of the reasons people drive around in metal boxes it they feel safe. Safe from the rain, safe from the cold, and safe from other people. You’re exposed to everything on a bike, and most people hate that.
This sounds like a very London centric article, as always…
Cycling is something you can change, making public transport more reliable and affordable is down to the government and transport providers and until public transport isn’t run for profit nothing is going to change.
The biggest issue here is the 9 to 5 mentality, majority of people have to be in the city centre at the same time, along with the school runs, that’s a lot of traffic crammed into a small timeframe.
Also, public transport is disgusting, I only use a bus when I have to and it’s not a nice experience. I used to cycle to work a lot, it’s a massive gamble, I had to stop in the end as near misses really put me off.
Bike infrastructure. Public transport. Car sharing. Milk float type essentials deliveries and safer streets. That’s what’s needed for an alt round solution.
Has anyone ever been on a bus during school hours? It will surely change your mind about whether driving a car is immoral.
For many of us a car is essential, and a huge part of freedom. I don’t live in a city so can’t speak for everyone.
Ditched my car years ago, (Landrover) stupidly high bills, taxes and running costs. We still have my wife’s car and company van if needed. Don’t miss not owning a car, hate driving in this country these days, too many idiots on the road, speed scammers everwhere…